Addressing the Skepticism towards Expanding (plus a little backstory)

[Severely_Artistic 742 / 9,471]

This needs to be said already.

 

I'm getting tired of ideas being shot down because shit hasn't worked in the past. There are Garry's Mod servers, probably CS:GO server, new ideas for divisions, and more and everything is being shot down because "it hasn't worked in the past".

 

I'm fucking done with that bullshit. Cut it out. Just because shit doesn't work once or twice months ago or even longer, doesn't mean we shut it down completely. That's the kind of shit that leaves us in one place. How do you think servers like Purge, TTT, or Zombie Escape came to be here in the first place? Because we weren't scared to expand/make servers. I've recently suggested bringing back the minecraft division after it's been shut down for god knows what reason (prolly SoJa) and people are shooting it down for the same fucking bullshit.

 

Any server is successful if it is handled correctly and I say that from experience (this is not bragging this is a story I'm telling you from my experience to inspire or whatever). I walked into a normal, standard, crappy DarkRP server that belonged to a friend of mine and he made me admin because he knew me and shit. He had a shit developer who was a complete asshole and the server was barely hanging on. You know what I did? I stepped up to co-owner/developer and flipped that server into something functioning, no lua errors, and was doing beautifully (20+/30 max). It managed to prosper in donations thanks to how I took care of ranks and donations. Unfortunately, we went down due to my inactivity (school) + the owner's inactivity (work), but I still keep SSG in my name to remember it.

 

Again, I'm not here to brag and be like I'm this amazing developer or miracle worker or whatever. I'm telling you guys this because people need to understand that just because any server can work so long as it has potential and great staff. That's not to say the previous managers for the servers we've had in the past were bad, but something was likely flawed. 

 

With that said, take it into consideration the next time anyone feels like shooting down a new idea.

 

Thanks,

Severely Artistic

[Winter 1,707 / 25,777]

That's what I like to hear.

 

While I agree with absolutely everything said in this, I also think it's worth pointing out that this does not mean we should go into every division and every gamemode we possibly can currently. I acknowledge there still is a budget, which could possibly factor into the reasons why the Minecraft revival was shot down. We should expand into what people like and enjoy, not just some other server that seems to make money, but that people won't like for as long of a duration.

 

Either way, this is the kind of motivation we need more of. Ragdoll Combat is an example of how this is displayed, and I can tell already that this will be pretty popular upon its release.

 

Just my two cents here.

 

Thanks.

[Ben 2,378 / 31,861]

37 minutes ago, Severely_Artistic said:

I've recently suggested bringing back the minecraft division after it's been shut down for god knows what reason (prolly SoJa) and people are shooting it down for the same fucking bullshit.

You don't understand how this works, do you? 

 

Yes, this reasoning is flaw, but you have to know that staff team would just have to discuss about this. If it gets approved, it will be in queue to be up and prepared in near future. 

 

I would normally be with you to have it up, but we just need to wait. Right now, we don't have what it requires. We lack developers, and I don't believe that we have a builders.

 

Although, other than that, I'll have to agree with you.  Reasoning for that is flawed and should be revisited by stating three reasons or more. 

[Finnick 2,355 / 32,330]

I absolutely agree with you

 

The only reason I'm still with GFL is because I'm hoping new servers for like CS:S or something that I may be interested in for other games will start up.

I'm this close to getting the fuck outta here

 

But nothing is happening

just shitty Mini-divisions.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Finnick

[queue 917 / 10,419]

29 minutes ago, Severely_Artistic said:

I'm getting tired of ideas being shot down because shit hasn't worked in the past.

 

51 minutes ago, Severely_Artistic said:

I've recently suggested bringing back the minecraft division after it's been shut down for god knows what reason (prolly SoJa) and people are shooting it down for the same fucking bullshit.

 

Minecraft is more than "hasn't worked in the past." Based on how you are talking, it seems you have not been around for any of them. I believe I was around for two of them and was able to experience exactly why no one in GFL wants another Minecraft server. We have had, if I remember correctly, five or more servers in the past all with different managers (sometimes several trying with one server at once). All of them had promise and were trusted individuals and were all unsuccessful. Minecraft is a hard game to get popular in and it is a dying game regardless. I am sorry to burst your happy little bubble, but no one, not even you, could make a successful Minecraft server with our name on it. It hasn't and will never happen.

 

Servers, like Purge, were new, popular, and innovative at the time of its arrival and have stayed generally popular to this day because of the work the superior staff team did back then. Generic DarkRP, Minecraft, etc. servers that people suggest are not unique or smart. Some of them are proposed only as "potential money makers" rather than as a good, fun server that GFL members actually want to play. GFL does not have the hard working staff/devs willing to put time into servers like Minecraft.

 

I am all for good ideas for servers and change in general. I simply do not support ideas I know will not work or are a risk to the well-being of GFL. I am sure around the same thing can be said about all the other members who refuse to accept your "brilliant" idea, so I would recommend listening to them rather than disregarding their input. Some of us have been here much longer than you have and know how things operate around here.

 

(most of the reply is geared toward your Minecraft suggestion, not other ideas proposed as I am not knowledgeable enough about those other situations)

 

[Severely_Artistic 742 / 9,471]

6 minutes ago, Winter said:

While I agree with absolutely everything said in this, I also think it's worth pointing out that this does not mean we should go into every division and every gamemode we possibly can currently. I acknowledge there still is a budget, which could possibly factor into the reasons why the Minecraft revival was shot down. We should expand into what people like and enjoy, not just some other server that seems to make money, but that people won't like for as long of a duration.

Obviously we shouldn't go into every division. I'm asking for more optimism rather than the skepticism being shown right now. Minecraft doesn't exactly require a thousand dollar budget either. I'd be damned to hear that people don't like or enjoy Minecraft is well.

 

5 minutes ago, Benroyjam said:

You don't understand how this works, do you? 

 

Yes, this reasoning is flaw, but you have to know that staff team would just have to discuss about this. If it gets approved, it will be in queue to be up and prepared in near future. 

 

I would normally be with you to have it up, but we just need to wait. Right now, we don't have what it requires. We lack developers, and I don't believe that we have a builders.

 

Although, other than that, I'll have to agree with you.  Reasoning for that is flawed and should be revisited by stating three reasons or more. 

I understand how this works because I've been a part of opening up servers and working with them for years. I enjoy it.

 

What reasoning do you refer to? The skepticism being used? Because if so, I don't understand why you're responding negatively. This whole post is about showing more optimism towards new ideas and expanding. I also hate hearing this shit about a "queue". What fucking queue? Why isn't this public either? Why am I hearing about a queue and not seeing any actual new full divisions being made? Ragdoll combat was popular while it was fucking locked and now it's put on hold for mini divisions???

 

We've waited and waited. I'm tired of waiting. Fuck waiting. We lack developers probably because we don't even have a more simple way for developers to apply. We have to go straight to a division leader and wait for a response. Not very productive now is it?

 

2 minutes ago, qDogg said:

Minecraft is more than "hasn't worked in the past." Based on how you are talking, it seems you have not been around for any of them. I believe I was around for two of them and was able to experience exactly why no one in GFL wants another Minecraft server. We have had, if I remember correctly, five or more servers in the past all with different managers (sometimes several trying with one server at once). All of them had promise and were trusted individuals and were all unsuccessful. Minecraft is a hard game to get popular in and it is a dying game regardless. I am sorry to burst your happy little bubble, but no one, not even you, could make a successful Minecraft server with our name on it. It hasn't and will never happen.

 

Servers, like Purge, were new, popular, and innovative at the time of its arrival and have stayed generally popular to this day because of the work the superior staff team did back then. Generic DarkRP, Minecraft, etc. servers that people suggest are not unique or smart. Some of them are proposed only as "potential money makers" rather than as a good, fun server that GFL members actually want to play. GFL does not have the hard working staff/devs willing to put time into servers like Minecraft.

 

I am all for good ideas for servers and change in general. I simply do not support ideas I know will not work or are a risk to the well-being of GFL. I am sure around the same thing can be said about all the other members who refuse to accept your "brilliant" idea, so I would recommend listening to them rather than disregarding their input. Some of us have been here much longer than you have and know how things operate around here.

 

(most of the reply is geared toward your Minecraft suggestion, not other ideas proposed as I am not knowledgeable enough about those other situations)

 

"Will never happen" Unless you have a magical fucking crystal ball which can tell the future, I don't believe you. 

 

Purge of course came though because we tried a new idea. Clear evidence shit does work around.

 

Who said I suggested a generic server? I suggested re-opening the division. The server choices are up to the community.

 

Money making was a pitch, not the full thing. I was addressing the whole market and how it could maintain itself with budget. Do not tell me the servers wouldn't be good and fun. If GFL doesn't have the hard working staff/devs, find some. Allow them to apply. I sure don't see an application forum anywhere.

 

I listen to every input made and read every comment to the greatest length. I put everything said into consideration. Not the same could be said for others though...

 

I hope that wraps that up.

 

[Ben 2,378 / 31,861]

5 minutes ago, Severely_Artistic said:

What reasoning do you refer to? The skepticism being used? Because if so, I don't understand why you're responding negatively.

All I'm saying is that we don't have what it takes to build up Minecraft. What we need is to have developers, and dedicated builders. We would also need right management and team. It's just more than this reasoning you've stated. We tried this so many times, and it lacks support. Believe me, right now, if you were to do this, it wouldn't last long enough.

 

8 minutes ago, Severely_Artistic said:

I also hate hearing this shit about a "queue". What fucking queue? Why isn't this public either? Why am I hearing about a queue and not seeing any actual new full divisions being made?

We have things that are being worked on, and they are a high priority. Building up to get division created doesn't take a week. It takes more.

 

6 minutes ago, Severely_Artistic said:

We've waited and waited. I'm tired of waiting. Fuck waiting. We lack developers probably because we don't even have a more simple way for developers to apply. We have to go straight to a division leader and wait for a response. Not very productive now is it?

 

 

 

Waiting will work - have some patience. We're waiting on something big that'd help GFL for a long while. 

[Finnick 2,355 / 32,330]

12 hours ago, Benroyjam said:

Waiting will work - have some patience. We're waiting on something big that'd help GFL for a long while. 

How much longer do we wait

we always wait

we can barely get 3+ emoticons for the forums a month

[Ben 2,378 / 31,861]

2 minutes ago, Finnick said:

How much longer do we wait

we always wait

we can barely get 3+ emoticons for the forums a month

 

Go ask one Director to check out your emoticon suggestion thread, then. 

[Finnick 2,355 / 32,330]

12 hours ago, Benroyjam said:

Go ask one Director to check out your emoticon suggestion thread, then. 

I do

probably 2-3 times a month

I have tons of suggestions and many other people have suggested it too

not many get added

I even suggested adding in the basic emoticons from twitch

they either just say no

or completely ignore me 

Edited May 18, 2017 by Finnick

[Pyros 1,796 / 30,750]

Although Im against the minecraft division, it didn't work at least twice (that I was around) and both had different Council members and managers and admins, if you can actually get a suggestion that will work (like Runescape that @Benroyjam suggested, or the Overwatch mini division, or the H1Z1 mini division that @iPro) then we might not be so "skeptical" towards new suggestions. Not saying your suggestion is bad, just saying you blaming everyone that is against to be a skeptical is as saying horses are chicken.

Edited May 18, 2017 by Pyros
Added the H1Z1 mini division as another exemple

[Bae 2,489 / 41,520]

Mini-division is just a small little group, kind of a like a clan/guild. I don't think we need to pay for it, well probably for the game but overall nothing is needed to be paid. Minecraft was tried multiple times, and at that time, I recalled multiple people wanting the server and when it came out, only a few actually played it. After it was shut down, people complained but it won't come back. Roy has given it many chances and I doubt he'll give it another chance. A lot of servers will be a getting cut-off/shut off, or something along the lines, I presume. 

[Shuruia 3,145 / 28,023]

Came into this thread with an open mind. Saw this.

3 hours ago, Severely_Artistic said:

I've recently suggested bringing back the minecraft division after it's been shut down for god knows what reason (prolly SoJa)

3 hours ago, Severely_Artistic said:

after it's been shut down for god knows what reason (prolly SoJa)

3 hours ago, Severely_Artistic said:

god knows what reason

 

You just self-forfeited with those four words. Why? Because it not only shows your lack of understanding regarding the circumstances and reasons; it also shows that you simply do not care that the former is true. Try again when you're ready to adopt a dialectic method.

[Lionel_Moosi 314 / 5,480]

GFL has been around for a while and people are used to playing what they play. Unless you find some super new game mode or a way to make an existing one interesting, people won't stay with it. That's the issue. All the game modes you want to expand into have been around for too long, there's nothing we can do with them. It'd be like if some company decided to build and sell an iPhone 6 right now. It's already been done, and people have moved on. Sure, you'll get people to buy it but they won't be with it for long. What you need is a galaxy S8/iPhone 9. Something new, something that hasn't been done yet. Come up with that idea and maybe you'll get somewhere. 

[Chormee 2,973 / 29,227]

RedneckRP.

[Severely_Artistic 742 / 9,471]

1 hour ago, Shuruia said:

Came into this thread with an open mind. Saw this.

 

You just self-forfeited with those four words. Why? Because it not only shows your lack of understanding regarding the circumstances and reasons; it also shows that you simply do not care that the former is true. Try again when you're ready to adopt a dialectic method.

I simply said "god knows what reason" because people only say "it hasn't worked in the past". The only reasons I've heard were shit about staff issues, but nothing really said about the actual server itself. So, I just said it without too much thought put into those words.  Also, I'm talking about Minecraft division as a whole. Don't concentrate on what I say about a server itself.

 

Keep in mind, this isn't primarily looking at the minecraft thread. I'm talking about changing perspective of new ideas and simply used the minecraft server as an example.

 

1 hour ago, Lionel_Moosi said:

GFL has been around for a while and people are used to playing what they play. Unless you find some super new game mode or a way to make an existing one interesting, people won't stay with it. That's the issue. All the game modes you want to expand into have been around for too long, there's nothing we can do with them. It'd be like if some company decided to build and sell an iPhone 6 right now. It's already been done, and people have moved on. Sure, you'll get people to buy it but they won't be with it for long. What you need is a galaxy S8/iPhone 9. Something new, something that hasn't been done yet. Come up with that idea and maybe you'll get somewhere. 

I don't think a company is a good comparison to make. Also, anything I've suggested is new. I never suggested a minecraft server either. Just re-opening the division.

[Pyros 1,796 / 30,750]

7 hours ago, Severely_Artistic said:

I simply said "god knows what reason" because people only say "it hasn't worked in the past". The only reasons I've heard were shit about staff issues, but nothing really said about the actual server itself. So, I just said it without too much thought put into those words.  Also, I'm talking about Minecraft division as a whole. Don't concentrate on what I say about a server itself.

lack of a player base, that was the primary reason

[Bae 2,489 / 41,520]

3 hours ago, Pyros said:

lack of a player base, that was the primary reason

No one reads my post anymore ? 

 

OT: @Severely_Artistic As mentioned before from hacking to the others, it was not the staff issues nor was it the mod packs thingy. We had everything set up, the only thing as I've mentioned multiple times (only 3 times), it was the player base. Our server was premium because Roy wants it like that. We paid for the things we added. 

[Cypher 1,187 / 11,383]

Sheesh, kids never learn. There were PLENTY of thing we've tried expanding into, like the DarkRP server that we built for GMOD, or the entire TF2 division for the last few months of it's life. 

 

We've had great people put up great servers, and they don't work out because after the work is done, we lack the infrastructure to sustain them. I personally know how much work went into the GMOD servers we've worked on in the past, and there were plenty of interest during the conception stages, and much less towards the end of their cycles. The higher-ups at this point are few in number, and there are plenty of reasons why we're not pushing into other gamemodes or servers at this time. Anyone that can do the work has been here for a LONG time, and at some point, they get burned out. Being hounded to do HOURS and HOURS of work for free by people who have absolutely no concept of how many real man-hours goes into making even more simple servers isn't easy to deal with. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So all in all, fuck Minecraft. There's absolutely no reason to open a server when we as a community don't want it. We're not a good minecraft community.

[SashaGrey 346 / 6,003]

2 minutes ago, Cypher said:

Sheesh, kids never learn. There were PLENTY of thing we've tried expanding into, like the DarkRP server that we built for GMOD, or the entire TF2 division for the last few months of it's life. 

 

We've had great people put up great servers, and they don't work out because after the work is done, we lack the infrastructure to sustain them. I personally know how much work went into the GMOD servers we've worked on in the past, and there were plenty of interest during the conception stages, and much less towards the end of their cycles. The higher-ups at this point are few in number, and there are plenty of reasons why we're not pushing into other gamemodes or servers at this time. Anyone that can do the work has been here for a LONG time, and at some point, they get burned out. Being hounded to do HOURS and HOURS of work for free by people who have absolutely no concept of how many real man-hours goes into making even more simple servers isn't easy to deal with. 

 

Myself and others put hundreds of hours into the attempted revival of the DarkRP server, and all we got from players in our own community was nothing. No attempt to get that server populated. Also the DarkRP gamemode has been around for so long that it wasn't anything new. 

 

The amount of time and my own money I sunk into DarkRP (buying addons/plug-ins) and just to have no one play or give the server a chance really sucks. 

 

If you or anyone can find a new gamemode that not a lot of people have done already, that is what I feel GFL would look at. That is why purge is still populated. We can't put money into servers that already have like 200 other servers. We won't get population.  I'm down for a new server, but we need to find something that is interesting and something that won't die off in two weeks. So feel free to give suggestions but don't think every idea you suggest it going to become something.