"Permanent" Bans

[Joshy 4,364 / 44,927]

Permanent bans are outdated.  I think we should use extended bans instead with a few exceptions such as hacking, and to allow people to return after a lengthy ban such as one year without them having to appeal.

Edited April 21, 2018 by Joshy

[Pyros 1,796 / 30,750]

As I stated on Discord, I'm more in favor of doing a permanent ban and after 1 year, if it's not for hacking or anything really serious, we unban if no appeal is done. 

 

We would do so it once a year around the same day. Why keep with the permanent ban? Simple, if an user comes just be a cuck and see he won't be able to come back, odds are he will forget about his ban. Then why not do it for one year? So the Staff team can hand pick the perma bans that will stay.

[rapperdan 2,323 / 0]

It's funny that you bring this up but i've always been in favor of things like this, also I'm just gonna leave this here recently I noticed something with smack and it seems like it can be easily triggerd in a false way I'm not saying this one is false but we have to take into account when it comes to hacking we have to consider things such as possible false flags, anyways here is the demo if you wish to watch and understand how smack can possibly get false flags http://www.filedropper.com/us1v1-432018-3 it 100% could be triggered by some form of lag client wise or even lag on the server tbh, anyways smack used to only get triggered if someone was full out spin botting and it had to be 360 ik this because I've seen people before avoid smack by simply keeping it to a 180 degrees and watching that is pretty dumb, either way I can't agree more we are cutting our selfs off from population by keeping perma bans in place, and it limits us in a way that we should not be limiting us too.

 

so say you start off with the world can populate our servers but the world slowly starts going underwater and over time we only have mount everest for people to connect from so people must live on the top of mount everest over time we are cutting our selfs short.

 

also i just thought about this due to a recent convo, but is our call of duty servers connected to source bans? was our chivalry medieval warfare servers connected? I think I might have noticed a slight pattern here and it's when source bans is not being applied servers seem to boom instantly, so how many perma bans are in place? and how hard is it effecting us?

Edited April 21, 2018 by rapperdan

[Joshy 4,364 / 44,927]

I think we often like to wait for the ship to sink before we start taking water out.

 

I always like to look at the extreme ends of a suggestion just for consideration: What if someone who is usually perm. banned keeps coming back every year to break the rules?  Boo hoo...  what a work load to handle them once per year, lol.

 

They have a saying in the customer service field.  It goes along the lines of "only one customer will speak up for every ten upset customers."  It means that you've really had ten upset customers even though only one said something about it (people are often mistaken using the one complaint as their true and only measure), and I'm convinced ban appeals are very similar.  We only get the few to appeal where there could be many more who would have considered returning to the community with better behavior; the work is so gentle should they have bad intentions, that it's worth doing the case by case work on the few bad ones rather than the few good ones- the work is being done one way or another, but I strongly believe we'll benefit from this suggestion compared to the other way around.

 

We're not in the field of a lot of people joining these new games and the population in these games are decaying.  We need to keep whatever we can wherever it may be reasonable.  I've seen this suggestion work in other communities and so I know it's a known good system.  It's odd that GFL once had that reputation of leniency, which was super attractive to me despite being someone who follows the rules; the community I left was too Draconian, and now they seem to be the good guys, lol.  They know how it works and it's like we've forgotten that the world isn't black and white.  We're going to have to tolerate the non-ideal scenarios and make some compromises if you guys really want to grow and survive (well).

Edited April 21, 2018 by Joshy

[Darkling 2,041 / 23,470]

I personally agree with getting rid of bans from 1+ years ago. After a year the person has either changed or completely forgotten about it. Even if we only get 1% of the people coming back, this is still a very large number of people.

 

If they end up being complete screw ups then they'll just end up banned again. If they were hacking they would have already gotten a VAC ban by now. 

 

The only downside I can see is a possible mild discomfort for admins who will be dealing with the small percentage of people who are still ass holes.

 

I'm going to use Dans bans as an example from 1 year ago.

in this sample approximately 80% of the bans shown which are permanent have all been either VAC/Game banned. Which means after a year it is fair to say that only 20% of hackers will be left and we haven't even included false positives.

[Jesus 90 / 3,841]

Bad example warning!

 

kinda like how hypixel has like 1 million+ bans and they only got 100K players

[im not inactive you are 888 / 16,340]

On 4/21/2018 at 1:46 PM, Pyros said:

As I stated on Discord, I'm more in favor of doing a permanent ban and after 1 year, if it's not for hacking or anything really serious, we unban if no appeal is done. 

 

We would do so it once a year around the same day. Why keep with the permanent ban? Simple, if an user comes just be a cuck and see he won't be able to come back, odds are he will forget about his ban. Then why not do it for one year? So the Staff team can hand pick the perma bans that will stay.

I agree with this 100%, it's an unnecessary hassle to bring to admins to ban people for one year, honestly in TTT, I'm not sure how it is in other servers, but we give them literally 2 chances. If someone, within a year gets banned for 1 week twice, the second ban is incremented to a month, and if they do it again within a year, they are banned perma, if you tell me that the week and the month ban aren't enough of a chance for them to fix their mistakes, then idk what is. 

On 4/21/2018 at 5:21 PM, Daddyling said:

I personally agree with getting rid of bans from 1+ years ago. After a year the person has either changed or completely forgotten about it. Even if we only get 1% of the people coming back, this is still a very large number of people.

 

If they end up being complete screw ups then they'll just end up banned again. If they were hacking they would have already gotten a VAC ban by now. 

 

The only downside I can see is a possible mild discomfort for admins who will be dealing with the small percentage of people who are still ass holes.

 

I'm going to use Dans bans as an example from 1 year ago.

in this sample approximately 80% of the bans shown which are permanent have all been either VAC/Game banned. Which means after a year it is fair to say that only 20% of hackers will be left and we haven't even included false positives.

Could you use something that's more recent? I know for a fact that ban rules have been changed in some servers to reduce the number of Permas, @MilkMan changed his, so could we just tag those SMs that you believe are causing a lot of permas? (also I'm not sure but it seems kind of contradictory for dan to say he's in favor of this sort of stuff when the example used was him banning a shitload of people perma)

 

Also VAC doesn't account for GFL Gmod servers, so anyone who hacks or scripts isn't banned by VAC, and the anti-cheat we have only detects a few. All the people I've banned for hacks are hacking.

Edited April 24, 2018 by TheSadBandit

[MilkMan 569 / 10,710]

Is this a shit post? 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2018 by MilkMan
yes

[rapperdan 2,323 / 0]

1 hour ago, MilkMan said:

Is this a shit post? 

 

 

ik you are against this and all but what if we simply get bans from each server to stick to that server but after a year they don't have it on other servers but it sticks to the server they are banned on, I mean it would be a lot easier on all the other servers in my eyes that need the population but does not effect the server where the ban occured on, just a suggestion and a possible thing to look at maybe, now I wish for this to get settled I'm not gonna lie but I'm more then willing to take a step at a time and who knows if other servers turn out well I would assume you would want the same for ttt so while it would not effect ttt but perhaps open your eyes and the people who play on the ttt server or even open others eyes if it goes badly. just a thought.

 

just think about this though all those bans might be effecting every other server and I figured it would be nice of you to take that into consideration and maybe think about this step as it might work for the best for everyone.

Edited April 24, 2018 by rapperdan

[MilkMan 569 / 10,710]

Permanent bans are to get rid of people that ruin others time enjoying the game. I haven’t had one appeal of my own from a perma ban in a couple years. Usually when they appeal it’s been quite some time and we usually unban like pyros said. I had screen shots of people being complete pricks when they RDM saying “FUCK YOU KILL YOURSELF NIGGERRRRRR” in all their reports killing 10+ people and even then thy could be hacking cause 10 plus people is hard to get with a lobby of 40 people shooting you. They appeal when they are ready. We don’t need people ruining others gameplay over and over. If your just gonna keep being lenient on someone they’re never gonna learn.

[Argyros 35 / 2,141]

On 4/24/2018 at 7:37 PM, MilkMan said:

Permanent bans are to get rid of people that ruin others time enjoying the game. I haven’t had one appeal of my own from a perma ban in a couple years. Usually when they appeal it’s been quite some time and we usually unban like pyros said. I had screen shots of people being complete pricks when they RDM saying “FUCK YOU KILL YOURSELF NIGGERRRRRR” in all their reports killing 10+ people and even then thy could be hacking cause 10 plus people is hard to get with a lobby of 40 people shooting you. They appeal when they are ready. We don’t need people ruining others gameplay over and over. If your just gonna keep being lenient on someone they’re never gonna learn.

I somewhat agree though I guess I shouldn't be allowed to say much on the matter. What I feel like would be the best is a type of strike or point system.
Based on the offense that the user has caused will give the player a number of points, for example, if the user was banned on a gmod server such as TTT for a specific type of thing such as RDM for let's say like intentionally RDM and other things such as toxicity then the player would get an accumulation of points which could have been added to other points if he had any from a different server on GFL.
Based on the number of points that the user received in that category would alone ban them from the server, game type or all servers.
What would also make a difference is if those points expired depending on what type of points were added; this would also make it very easy for staff to keep track of user's points along with how close a player is to getting perm banned. Which later, could expire based on what type of points and/or ban was given to the user.
Example if an admin gave the user warning points, and later came back and another admin gave him points on a different game server for almost the same identical thing then maybe the user should be temporarily banned from all game servers for a set amount until the points expire which could tie into how perm bans and stuff like getting banned from hacking would affect the user.
To add even more even if those points expired to have them still on the user's account, so if he does come back but does something that warrants a very special type of points or accumulations of points then to ban or increase the user's ban length even longer. 
This in return would still allow players to come back without having to do a type of appeal but would still restrict and make players learn about their actions even more. If the player wanted to instead he could appeal or challenge those points which for example could make his ban time less or so .etc, kinda like a prison or jail system, I guess...
 

Edited April 28, 2018 by Argyros