Change my mind

[im not inactive you are 888 / 16,340]

So I took this idea from a Canadian Conservative who I enjoy watching videos of, Steven Crowder. I don't think he's done this topic yet, but if he has, oh well. (I hyperlinked his channel for those interested in watching; If that isn't allowed I'll remove it)

 

The way this goes, for those who don't know, I'll state a topic, and my stance on it, and then whoever opposes it may comment on it, and I'll have a rebuttal, and of course it's to learn different people's opinions, and possibly change others' opinions if they are open to that. It's not meant to be something in a negative aspect, or something to take to heart, instead it's just a way for people to express themselves. It's also a way to show maybe different sides of media sources and news sources. If you want to include sources to whatever you're saying, that is completely fine, if you don't it's also fine. Those who are opposed to doing this sort of thing, don't comment on it, but instead keep this post on-topic. 

 

The topic I'll be doing is: The Trump effect (Donald Trump's presidency) has affected the US in a positive way. Change my mind.

 

[im not inactive you are 888 / 16,340]

Here's my point of view, in the long run, it has opened more jobs than unemployed people in the US, the unemployment rate for minorities is at the lowest in US history, and he has reduced tax dollars for everyone by a lot. I've seen in many media sources he doesn't get accredited for good things he does, and his words are twisted. Some examples are when he said that he was building the wall to stop all immigrants from entering the US, when in reality it was to stop illegal immigrants from entering the US. 

 

He also signed a bill that would allow for people with diseases and sicknesses and disorders that are not treatable right now to enter experimentative medicine practices, where they would be used to help cure their disease/sickness/disorder. 

[im not inactive you are 888 / 16,340]

@-_Fx_- @Ben Roy

[annoying furry 6,300 / 63,950]

26 minutes ago, TheSadBandit said:

he has reduced tax dollars for everyone by a lot

Mostly the rich, which is problematic, to say the least. Just because you reduce taxes doesn't mean the government is less expensive to maintain. But why should he care? He doesn't have to drive on our roads, use social services, food stamps, or anything that our tax dollars pay for. But this isn't something trump is to blame for, as it probably would've happened the same way with Clinton, someone who is so out of touch that she carries fucking hot sauce in her purse to seem hip.

[Guest]

Trump is bad boi

 

[Aquaticfilly0 394 / 7,993]

Ohhh. this is my topic. So, Trump is an idiot. He does not believe in global warming. He has cut off acces to places he doesn't trade with, but leaves it open for the places terrorists come in from. Mexicans have done nothing wrong, so why should they be forced out? He is against anything that benefits people who do not benefit him. Name one smart thing he has done, that has benefitted others. Name all the stupid and selfish things he has done, that are for himself.

[Spode 83 / 2,704]

1 minute ago, Aquaticfilly0 said:

Ohhh. this is my topic. So, Trump is an idiot. He does not believe in global warming. He has cut off acces to places he doesn't trade with, but leaves it open for the places terrorists come in from. Mexicans have done nothing wrong, so why should they be forced out? He is against anything that benefits people who do not benefit him. Name one smart thing he has done, that has benefitted others. Name all the stupid and selfish things he has done, that are for himself.

Actually immigrants in general tend to more crime than civilians, technically they are doing a crime by not paying taxes, due to coming illegally. We can't accept every emigrant to come over, look at Paris for example, full of graffiti and crime.

While Trump says some idiot things, he does pretty good stuff. One smart thing he has done was lower family taxes, and made export goods cost more. That makes people have more money, so that is good. I don't think Trump is the best, but he is know where near as garbage as Hillary Clinton. 

I should've let the @TheSadBandit answer, but I really wanted to but in.

[VilhjalmrF 2,099 / 30,684]

Well Trump lies a lot. That's a start.

Here is a list of them: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/23/opinion/trumps-lies.html

 

When I have debate with someone about Clinton or Trump being the biggest liar, I play a game where we both list the lies they made and see who runs out of lies first. ( Spoiler: I won. )

 

A little off-topic: Hillary is stupid I must admit that. So my stance on having her as president is neutral.

 

And he's obviously an idiot. He isn't aware of global warming. Which is something that we should really be concerned about. Trump says he's a smart guy, he isn't. I do agree on what Spode said about sending illegal mexican immigrants back. But fucking hell this the third time this happened lol. Guess we'll just only kick them out. Plus kicking out illegal immigrants was one way of opening more job opportunities for those who weren't illegals and needed a job. So I give him props for that. But overall I hate him because he makes himself look like a fool.

[Spode 83 / 2,704]

1 hour ago, Kite9867 said:

Well Trump lies a lot. That's a start.

Here is a list of them: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/23/opinion/trumps-lies.html

Um their sources are from buzzfeed and themselves, both known for being anti trump and really left. 

[Cally 68 / 3,015]

1 hour ago, Spode said:

Actually immigrants in general tend to more crime than civilians, technically they are doing a crime by not paying taxes, due to coming illegally.

Actually this is statistically not true. Immigrants are much more likely to be victims of crimes then the people doing them. Research has consistently shown that illegal immigrants are less likely to commit crimes then people born in the states. Furthermore, if an illegal immigrant is arrested for a crime it tends to be for a small crime or misdemeanor. 

Also people believe that illegal immigrants are coming to take the jobs away. However, illegal immigrants generally take the worst paying, most dangerous jobs because its all they can get as they don't have the proper documentation. 

As far as crime in Paris goes, The USA has a higher rate of crime then France. I would go on about it more but I really don't want to turn this post into an essay. 

 

Sources: 

http://criminology.oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780190264079.001.0001/acrefore-9780190264079-e-93

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/France/United-States/Crime

Edited June 9, 2018 by Cally

[Spode 83 / 2,704]

1 hour ago, Cally said:

 

Sources: 

http://criminology.oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780190264079.001.0001/acrefore-9780190264079-e-93

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/France/United-States/Crime

On the first source it never states "illegal" immigration. Immigration legally means they had to get a visa, they are hard to get with a criminal background. Also requires background checks, which is a safe bet they are not going to commit crimes. Heck, most legal immigrants become U.S. citizens. My family were Irish immigrants.

 

Your second article is unneeded as I was providing an example for what refugees have done to countries. It was a bad example now that I think of it, since Muslim refugees are way more barbaric than Mexican immigrants. Also immigrants refuse to take our culture, thus is not welcome in any country. yes, america has a common language, which is why immigrants are so dis-communicated with citizens, hence aliens.

 

Edit- Also on your second source, put in for population average of a thousand, France has more crime over all.

 

Edited June 9, 2018 by Spode

[Cally 68 / 3,015]

24 minutes ago, Spode said:

On the first source it never states "illegal" immigration

No, it states "undocumented immigrants",  which is the same thing.  

24 minutes ago, Spode said:

Also immigrants refuse to take our culture, thus is not welcome in any country. yes, america has a common language, which is why immigrants are so dis-communicated with citizens, hence aliens

What culture? Your country was founded by immigrants for immigrants. America is literally just a blend of different cultures. As far as having a common language goes; you do have a common language in english but it is not an offical language recognized at the federal level. Also it can be argued that spanish is also a common language as roughly 37 million people speak it in your country. 

Edited June 9, 2018 by Cally

[Spode 83 / 2,704]

2 minutes ago, Cally said:

No, it states "undocumented immigrants",  which is the same thing.  

What culture? Your country was founded by immigrants for immigrants. America is literally just a blend of different cultures. As far as having a common language goes; you do have a common language in english but it is not an offical language recognized at the federal level. Also it can be argued that spanish is also a common language as roughly 37 million people speak it in your country. 

Sorry I did not catch the undocumented part. My bad. I have seen data otherwise, but Ill give it to you.

 

There is an american culture and lifestyle in a sense, one every immigrant adapts to and that is democracy. A lot of immigrants do not really help the overall economy, and again chose low end jobs, it does suck for them, but they aren't needed. The government can't afford so many people coming over. We had immigration problems in the past.

 

 

I kinda done on the thread so thanks for the good argument. 

[CNe7532294 171 / 4,777]

I have to step in and just say this.

 

All I'm getting from this is that really cute modern day buzzword known as "undocumented". That has literally solved nothing and literally still groups all innocent (literal children/some special case adults) and bad immigrants (literal drug runners/killers) together as one group just like "illegal" did. The only difference being that a certain some have flipped what was a negative connotation to a positive one to hide behind. Change my mind. 

Edited June 9, 2018 by CNe7532294
Gotta keep dat chowder on the table. :lenny:

[im not inactive you are 888 / 16,340]

5 hours ago, Aquaticfilly0 said:

Ohhh. this is my topic. So, Trump is an idiot. He does not believe in global warming. He has cut off acces to places he doesn't trade with, but leaves it open for the places terrorists come in from. Mexicans have done nothing wrong, so why should they be forced out? He is against anything that benefits people who do not benefit him. Name one smart thing he has done, that has benefitted others. Name all the stupid and selfish things he has done, that are for himself.

Okay, I like this sort of thing. 

 

1. Trump completed most, if not all of his political promises within a year, something that Obama couldn't complete in 8 years. 

2. I see the welfare stand-point that most people are putting, but like I said above, there are more open jobs than unemployed people. 

3. "Mexicans did nothing wrong", Trump isn't against immigration, he is against illegal immigration, which is crossing the border illegally, he is deporting illegal immigrants, who did do something wrong, which they either overstayed their allowed visa, or they crossed the border illegally, which is a crime (this wasn't put in during the Trump administration). The "Mexicans" being forced out are those who are here illegally. (you can check the White House site for more info) Also, have you ever heard of MS-13? I come from a Central American background, my cousins live in Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, those countries are full of MS-13 gangs. That shit is scary, they can't leave their houses without at least 3 armed bodyguards (1 in the car with them, 1 in a truck in front of them, and one behind them), and it's all due to gang violence. These gangs cross the border and end up in America, I don't think you want MS-13 gangsters in your city (they are far more dangerous than these ghetto blacks). The recruitment in these 3 Central American countries is the following: in order to be a part of the gang, you have to kill in cold blood someone you love. Once in the gang, these people kill anyone, that includes women and children. My cousins themselves have seen dead bodies outside of their residence. These gangsters cross the Mexican border illegally, so for Trump to be wanting to secure the border and not let this sort of people in should be a blessing. 

4. Trump's first quarter salary he donated to the Veterans Administration, he is rich, and as president of the US, he is working salary-free. 

5. He wasn't afraid to use the US military to it's full potential, he re-did the rules of engagement to the advantage of the US, so instead of waiting for our US soldiers to get hurt before taking action, they may take action if they feel they are in danger. An example of this is in the movie American Sniper (for those who have seen it), when the little kid is carrying an RPG rocket, and the sniper can't do anything about it until the RPG rocket blows up, or his soldiers are in a radius where they will die, or get badly hurt. Trump made it so that if there is a kid carrying an RPG rocket, they can take the necessary action to make sure our soldiers don't get hurt.

6. Trump not caring about global warming, it really doesn't affect anything, honestly it's not global warming anymore, it's climate change, it's something that has and always will be there. The Earth has different cycles it goes through, both cold and hot, which is the same reason why in the 1970s it was "global cooling" and the Earth was going to freeze over. It's all a myth until proven correctly, which the answer changes as the climate does. People talk about pollution and such, when the Pompeii volcano erupted, it created more smoke and debris and chemicals in the air than what the whole Industrial Era did for the US, and that eruption was in 79 AD, over 1900 years ago.

7. Another thing people say about him other than being an idiot is sexist, but he employed more women into the senior-level positions in the White House than any other president.

8. Tax cuts, people might say this is bad, but honestly he's helping people of all economic levels with this. The lowest paying jobs (20k/year), he is cutting their taxes by about $300 yearly, which is a lot if yearly they pay $1000, and he is cutting the tax so they pay $800 instead. Less taxes = more capitalistic. Marginal federal income tax will drop from 15% to 10%, and federal income tax rate will drop from 4.87% to 4%.

9. I would like it if you named the stupid, selfish things he has done for himself

 

Edit: If Trump is an idiot, then he must be the smartest idiot made president if he has been able to accomplish many things that have taken the United State's whole history to accomplish (unemployment rate for ALL minorities is at its lowest)

Edited June 9, 2018 by TheSadBandit

[im not inactive you are 888 / 16,340]

3 hours ago, Cally said:

Actually this is statistically not true. Immigrants are much more likely to be victims of crimes then the people doing them. Research has consistently shown that illegal immigrants are less likely to commit crimes then people born in the states. Furthermore, if an illegal immigrant is arrested for a crime it tends to be for a small crime or misdemeanor. 

Also people believe that illegal immigrants are coming to take the jobs away. However, illegal immigrants generally take the worst paying, most dangerous jobs because its all they can get as they don't have the proper documentation. 

As far as crime in Paris goes, The USA has a higher rate of crime then France. I would go on about it more but I really don't want to turn this post into an essay. 

 

Sources: 

http://criminology.oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780190264079.001.0001/acrefore-9780190264079-e-93

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/France/United-States/Crime

I'm sorry but being an illegal immigrant is enough for deportation in my opinion. I am a US born Citizen, and half my family has had to go through the system legally. I know of only one case where my uncle had to live in Miami for about 20 years before getting a green card, and it was due to an expired passport. The country he used to live in (the one I am from) was at war in the 80s, and he had to evacuate because he was at the age where he was able to be drafted for the military to combat against the citizens, and no one wanted that, so he had to cross the border of Nicaragua illegally, and end up in Honduras, where he was picked up by the Honduran military and was almost shipped back to Nicaragua if it hadn't been for my grandmother who told the general that he was her son (my grandmother and the general were good friends). After that, they flew to Mexico, where my grandmother would wait at the other side of the border for him, because she had a valid passport, and his was expired by about one month. So I am well aware of illegal immigration, but I am more for people becoming legal immigrants than illegal immigrants, except in the case that the people come from a war-torn country, but Mexico is not so. 

[im not inactive you are 888 / 16,340]

I do admit that America in my opinion doesn't have a set culture, but instead is a mixing bowl of cultures.

 

As for a country built by immigrants for immigrants, that is in the past, America is a country for Americans, it has ~300 million people living in it, and can't afford to have undocumented immigrants who don't pay taxes living in it. If they were documented and payed taxes, that is a different story. 

[Aquaticfilly0 394 / 7,993]

34 minutes ago, TheSadBandit said:

1. Trump completed most, if not all of his political promises within a year, something that Obama couldn't complete in 8 years. 

Maybe Obama's were harder to accomplish, because they were worth more time?

 

35 minutes ago, TheSadBandit said:

4. Trump's first quarter salary he donated to the Veterans Administration, he is rich, and as president of the US, he is working salary-free. 

You do know he went 'bankrupt' 3 times so he didn't have to pay the people who invested in him back, right? He may be rich, but that doesn't make him any smarter. And global warming? It is currently affecting the world. If he was a smart guy, he would acknowledge this, and try to make a change. Rather, he is bombing countries, talking about cake after, not remembering which place he bombed, and is taking responsibility for the North and South coming together.

 

[im not inactive you are 888 / 16,340]

Just now, Aquaticfilly0 said:

Maybe Obama's were harder to accomplish, because they were worth more time?

 

You do know he went 'bankrupt' 3 times so he didn't have to pay the people who invested in him back, right? He may be rich, but that doesn't make him any smarter. And global warming? It is currently affecting the world. If he was a smart guy, he would acknowledge this, and try to make a change. Rather, he is bombing countries, talking about cake after, not remembering which place he bombed, and is taking responsibility for the North and South coming together.

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/browse/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/

 

I mean all I said about him being rich was that he wasn't taking the presidential salary. As for global warming, I don't believe in that (I put my opinion about that above). Our previous president wasn't rich either, read this if you want. https://www.aol.com/article/finance/2016/12/27/obama-was-broke-had-credit-card-declined-before-presidency/21642730/

 

If you want to talk about his bankruptcies, lets talk about his business career as a whole. 6 bankruptcies might seem like a lot, but when you compare it to his 500 other businesses, 6 bankruptcies looks like nothing, which means that out of all the businesses he's created, 1.2% of them went bankrupt, and the other 494 were successful and helped him create his net worth he has today.

[rapperdan 2,323 / 0]

you guys remember the irish?

I'm so pissed they never even considered to join our culture of the americas.

after all look at these apes.

 

you guys ever think we should you know accept immigration as something we are well built upon.

also will we ever come up with maybe a new insult or reasoning?

I have concluded that from what it seems americans are well scared of the unknown so we just call it apes aka a penis extra small syndrome may aswell just say your granny is a tranny to all immigrants.

you guys know whats even more odd?

this dude  and so many others atm who are fighting against the exact reason they are here tbh I do wonder what his grandparents would say to him if they where still alive.

long story short I don't think the chinese where not humans the irish the blacks the italians and what now the muslims?

 

all in all I swear I question what is wrong with society as a whole.

fyi if you think immigrants are bad when are we going to give this land back to the natives and leave, because I sure as hell know that any person who is against immigrants atm is not a native american and is a descendant of immigrants

Edited June 9, 2018 by rapperdan
editing due to a tad bit of what I feel might be targeting