Map Modifier Plugin [UPDATED]

[Malal 145 / 0]

50 minutes ago, ReivaX said:

where there is a transition period

that defeats the purpose of classic spawn

mapea is shit and has OP nades so class spawn is basically pointless there

the point of classic spawn is to prevent grouping up and to make a possible higher ZM count

classic spawn is usually used on maps like icecap, boat escape, mountain escape etc

do you notice something about those maps?

they all have multiple path ways to take at the start

 

[ReivaX 63 / 2,626]

So does frostdrake, santa and 'insert luff map here.'

 

I fail to see your point.

[Ninja Chris 249 / 0]

24 minutes ago, ReivaX said:

So does frostdrake, santa and 'insert luff map here.'

 

I fail to see your point.

 

With maps like icecap, boat escape and mountain escape there are multiple pathways at the start that stay on that one pathway and sometimes connect in between if a zombie were to spawn on one pathway and kill everyone there it wouldn't have an impact on anyone else as they could simply run ahead. Also the players can spam nades at the start of the round and knock the zombies into the water (boat escape) or at the bottom of the map (mountain escape).

 

For maps like frostdrake and santa it causes more of an issue. Both maps have separate starting pathways that connect to each other shortly after and require even amounts of players to defend them. If one side is lost it becomes extremely difficult to defend the other as the players will be overwhelmed when the pathways merge. Also, these maps require the majority of humans to be alive from the start of the map and if a large number of players immediately die it becomes impossible.

 

At the start of frostdrake there are two paths that merge into one and the zombies would spawn at the time when everyone's at the connected pathway. Since everyone would be grouped up the majority of people would be forced to spam their nades and if players were behind the zombie they would instinctively shoot the zombie forward as the area is closed off resulting in the majority of players dying at the start of the round.

 

Santa has similar spawns however, the first level has everyone grouped up and running in a straight line and if classic spawns were enabled everyone would die.

 

Maps like icecap, boat escape and mountain escape are suppose to be maps where you can have fun and just fuck around. The plugin would be great for casual maps like these, making it less boring as the rounds will be different instead of the same shit over and over again. For try hard bitch boy maps the plugin would just be a pain for everyone trying to complete the map since they would only be more difficult and I wouldn't be able to kiss loan's lips.

[Malal 145 / 0]

On 11/18/2018 at 6:52 PM, ReivaX said:

So does frostdrake, santa and 'insert luff map here.'

 

I fail to see your point.

frostdrake has like two paths that require kz, or at least one does, classic spawn would kill half the team on it

santa depends on the level but as i said its incredibly easy for the ZMs to take out a path way and depending on the level losing one path is game over

predator only has two ways and again losing one is basically killing half the team

pizzatime is a map that could have classic spawn as its similar to icecap/boatescape with the different paths and options to take

toaster wouldnt work because you go up that elevator thing

 

[gkuo88 67 / 2,820]

These all sound like cancer lol. But at the same time it people actually have to vote it on rather than having the modes forced onto maps on a 24/7 basis, which is good. If the modes do end up getting popular, people will start voting for it on more, and if the modes end up unpopular, people will stop voting for them.

 

Either way, I fear for an autistic future where the modes end up not popular and the people pushing for them try to pressure admins to force it on the server on a 24/7 basis. That or they will use mic power to push it for a month or so, then use the basis that the server isn't completely dead to argue that the modes are popular enough that they should remain in place on a 24/7 basis. Ima call these two scenarios out so this bullshit better not happen in the future.

 

"to spice up maps that otherwise may be too easy or too boring for most players"

 

Sounds like bullshit from the past. Easy maps have always been overplayed within the history of zombie escape. If they majority of players found that the ease of the map has made it boring, they will simply vote for another map. But thats the thing, they arent the majority so it never happens, and instead they play the same thing over and over and over. Somewhere along the line, alot of people like laidback maps. As for the minority that complains about the maps that the server often plays aren't at the difficulty that they wish for, you need to tell them to get a mic and fucking lead. The server is made of autists that can be easily pushed into attempting whatever tryhard map out there. The same applies for these cancer settings. But all these things come at a consequence. If not alot of players end up having fun with a very hard map or weird settings, then they will not vote for this stuff in the future as often. Harder maps, harder settings require leadership, coordination and are heavily team dependent. If anything it brings out the harsh truth, that the hardest maps are hard because one's fate is heavily dependent on other players. Harder maps require less people to fuck up. Even if you never threw a failnade, you have no control if someone else throws it. Even if you warn a vip 100 times of a trap, they can still fall into it. Harder settings of any sort will give less control to the individual player, while easy maps you can do whatever because you dont get dragged down by bad teammates.

 

In short, expect the possibility that these modes might not end up popular. If those complaining don't wish to get a mic and lead on harder maps, or to push players into trying the optional modes, then they dont deserve it. Anything harder requires extra effort, and if those complaining dont wish to put forth that extra effort, then you shouldnt expect anyone else to do it either. And if no one does it everyone will have a shit time.

 

Also bhop is cancer, dont expand on that bullshit either plz.

[Lord Death 51 / 2,077]

Is there an ETA for getting the plugin enabled on the casual maps? 

[Snowy 837 / 11,431]

The MapModifier plugin is now in testing phase, and it's available on ALL maps as of now (just for testing purposes, and for getting statistics)

 

Commands:

!votemm - Vote for a MM

!undomm - Vote to undo the current MM

 

Please report any bugs here.

[Ninja Chris 249 / 0]

On 11/22/2018 at 2:14 PM, gkuo88 said:

These all sound like cancer lol. But at the same time it people actually have to vote it on rather than having the modes forced onto maps on a 24/7 basis, which is good. If the modes do end up getting popular, people will start voting for it on more, and if the modes end up unpopular, people will stop voting for them.

 

That's the entire point of beta testing the plugin... so they can gain feedback and ideas on what's good or bad and improve it over time.

 

On 11/22/2018 at 2:14 PM, gkuo88 said:

Either way, I fear for an autistic future where the modes end up not popular and the people pushing for them try to pressure admins to force it on the server on a 24/7 basis. That or they will use mic power to push it for a month or so, then use the basis that the server isn't completely dead to argue that the modes are popular enough that they should remain in place on a 24/7 basis. Ima call these two scenarios out so this bullshit better not happen in the future.

 

If a mode becomes unpopular it won't be played as much if not at all. "We should also just remove nominations completely as well as every single map that is not played daily I'm sick of all these fucking autistic trolls abusing their mic powers to manipulate the players and vote the same maps over and over again even though they are unpopular as the players clearly can't make decisions for themselves and always pick the same unpopular map over and over again! Why won't everyone on the server agree with me they are such IDIOTS!!!!!" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

On 11/22/2018 at 2:14 PM, gkuo88 said:

"to spice up maps that otherwise may be too easy or too boring for most players"
 

Sounds like bullshit from the past. Easy maps have always been overplayed within the history of zombie escape. If they majority of players found that the ease of the map has made it boring, they will simply vote for another map. But thats the thing, they arent the majority so it never happens, and instead they play the same thing over and over and over. Somewhere along the line, alot of people like laidback maps. As for the minority that complains about the maps that the server often plays aren't at the difficulty that they wish for, you need to tell them to get a mic and fucking lead. The server is made of autists that can be easily pushed into attempting whatever tryhard map out there. The same applies for these cancer settings.

 

Easy maps are played more than harder maps because there are more of them (I believe they also have shorter map cooldowns) and as you said yourself they're more laid back so the casual players would prefer to play them over more complex maps that take time to understand as there are usually multiple pathways, bosses, items and levels which they wouldn't know anything about if they haven't played it before. Yet you contradict your statement saying that the majority of the player base are a bunch of braindead retards that can't make up their own decision and are constantly manipulated into spamming tryhard maps. The majority vote will always win over the minority vote. There's also a big difference between an absolute majority and a relative majority.

 

On 11/22/2018 at 2:14 PM, gkuo88 said:

But all these things come at a consequence. If not alot of players end up having fun with a very hard map or weird settings, then they will not vote for this stuff in the future as often. Harder maps, harder settings require leadership, coordination and are heavily team dependent. If anything it brings out the harsh truth, that the hardest maps are hard because one's fate is heavily dependent on other players. Harder maps require less people to fuck up. Even if you never threw a failnade, you have no control if someone else throws it. Even if you warn a vip 100 times of a trap, they can still fall into it. Harder settings of any sort will give less control to the individual player, while easy maps you can do whatever because you dont get dragged down by bad teammates.

 

In short, expect the possibility that these modes might not end up popular. If those complaining don't wish to get a mic and lead on harder maps, or to push players into trying the optional modes, then they dont deserve it. Anything harder requires extra effort, and if those complaining dont wish to put forth that extra effort, then you shouldnt expect anyone else to do it either. And if no one does it everyone will have a shit time.

 

Congrats, you just summarised why hard maps aren't played as often as easy ones. If the plugin isn't popular it will simply be removed, the same applies for it being used on harder maps, which is the whole point of the beta test. Instead of pointlessly complaining about things that have already been answered by my girlfriend @reduct, why not give feedback or contribute some ideas to help make the plugin more enjoyably?

 

On 11/22/2018 at 2:14 PM, gkuo88 said:

Also bhop is cancer, dont expand on that bullshit either plz.

 

There hasn't been a single comment regarding bhop. Also, if you think it's cancer then you'll love the CS:S server.

Edited November 25, 2018 by Ninja Chris

[gkuo88 67 / 2,820]

1 hour ago, Ninja Chris said:

"We should also just remove nominations completely as well as every single map that is not played daily I'm sick of all these fucking autistic trolls abusing their mic powers to manipulate the players and vote the same maps over and over again even though they are unpopular as the players clearly can't make decisions for themselves and always pick the same unpopular map over and over again! Why won't everyone on the server agree with me they are such IDIOTS!!!!!" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Never said this. Also don't know what exactly you're arguing with this.

 

1 hour ago, Ninja Chris said:

Easy maps are played more than harder maps because there are more of them 

I'd argue against this. The map nomination list is built off of people's choices so it doesnt matter how many easy or hard maps there are total. Also since gfl runs on a 24 hour basis, how many hours do you think the server is capable of tryharding? 

 

2 hours ago, Ninja Chris said:

Yet you contradict your statement saying that the majority of the player base are a bunch of braindead retards that can't make up their own decision and are constantly manipulated into spamming tryhard maps. The majority vote will always win over the minority vote. There's also a big difference between an absolute majority and a relative majority.

Don't twist my words around. Never did I say the majority were braiddead retards. I said that you can easily get use a mic to get players to get them to try a harder map. And then what happens afterwards? If they lose too much, they consider it hard and rtv it within the first 20 minutes and they become a bit less likely to try the map again in the future or listen to the guy who pushed for it. The players ended up going for easier maps once like usual. A person using the mic can easily push the players into playing a hard map. This shit has always happened on the server, so how is it even contradictory? 

 

2 hours ago, Ninja Chris said:

Instead of pointlessly complaining about things that have already been answered by my girlfriend @reduct, why not give feedback or contribute some ideas to help make the plugin more enjoyably?

There's nothing much, but like I said, I am worried that they will try to make this into a permanent standard. Why not add an option to make a vote to remove bhop as well? The same prospect where people are allowed to make the mode harder on an easier map, verses the capability to make a mode easier on a harder map, assuming they've been stuck on a level for some time.

 

2 hours ago, Ninja Chris said:

Also, if you think it's cancer then you'll love the CS:S server.

Wot? The css server implemented this shit to a higher degree and even earlier than you guys. Because of it alot of the casual maps got fucked over because the bhopping pros could fuck over everyone and it would be the same shit over and over every time you played the map. People were still winning the map, but it was the same people over and over again, where youre left with this weird situation where the casuals ended up not wanting to play on casual maps. Its one of the reasons why the server is kill there because casuals dont wish to play casual maps there anymore. Thus outside of tryhard sessions everyone pretty much leaves the server.

[Ryannn 103 / 4,213]

I think classic spawn probably isn't the best mode to have as a random option because it can make or break some maps. You could argue that we shouldn't just vote for the map modifier but there are some that might make a harder map fun like VIP or 50k knife. It is taking a huge risk if you vote it though hoping to get one of those modes because if you get classic spawn the team wont make it out of spawn 90% of the time.

 

Here are some possible solutions I think could work:

1. Instead of making the modifiers random, have it initiate a vote on which modifier to use.

2. Remove classic spawn as an option from harder map.

[Snowy 837 / 11,431]

8 minutes ago, .................. said:

I think classic spawn probably isn't the best mode to have as a random option because it can make or break some maps. You could argue that we shouldn't just vote for the map modifier but there are some that might make a harder map fun like VIP or 50k knife. It is taking a huge risk if you vote it though hoping to get one of those modes because if you get classic spawn the team wont make it out of spawn 90% of the time.

 

Here are some possible solutions I think could work:

1. Instead of making the modifiers random, have it initiate a vote on which modifier to use.

2. Remove classic spawn as an option from harder map.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

1 - I really don't think initiating a vote on which modifier to use is interesting, people will obviously vote for the modifier they want. I would like to keep it random, so that you'll never know what you'll get

2 - Classic spawn definitely makes some maps harder, but we're going to test it first. Maybe instead of removing we can adjust it? Ex. Classic Spawn and FailNades enabled together.

[Ryannn 103 / 4,213]

1 hour ago, xSnowyAngel said:

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

1 - I really don't think initiating a vote on which modifier to use is interesting, people will obviously vote for the modifier they want. I would like to keep it random, so that you'll never know what you'll get

2 - Classic spawn definitely makes some maps harder, but we're going to test it first. Maybe instead of removing we can adjust it? Ex. Classic Spawn and FailNades enabled together.

I do agree that randomizing the modifier can help make things more interesting and fun. The point i was trying to make was that some of these modes can possibly cause rounds to end extremely quick over and over again forcing an rtv. I think maybe just disabling classic spawn on some of the very tryhard maps like santassassination, FF maps, fapescapes. etc. couldnt hurt? For the grouping idea I think it is fine when they are separate, but as combos they could be fun too. Could it be possible to separate the map pool into maybe two groups such as hard maps and casual maps, and allow the casual maps to randomly pick from any current/future modifier while the hard map group chooses from a smaller pool of modifiers which can still make the game play more fun but still not ruin the map entirely?

 

Also, can the undomm required votes be lower than the votemm required votes? I think if someone is pressuring the entire server on the mic to votemm it might be tough to undo it say the modifier ruins the map. 

Edited November 25, 2018 by ..................

[Ninja Chris 249 / 0]

6 hours ago, gkuo88 said:

Don't twist my words around.

 

Yet you stripped half of my reply and cherry picked sentences out of context to try and validate your argument. 

[ReivaX 63 / 2,626]

U total spuds.

 

Now that the plugin is implemented, let's focus on analysing the actual results of this endeavour instead of arguing about who said what.

 

As much as I hate change, I am encouraged to see management trying new things, which I believe puts the future in good stead. 

 

As to what happens? Wait and see...

 

just to add a seperate note: was there any plan to have votes to change to game mode settings? Not to copy pse but they do have different options that admins can call votes on which provide situations such as unlimited or limited ammo, no rebuys and differing zm spawn rates. Looking for thoughts.

- Sausage

[gkuo88 67 / 2,820]

 

4 minutes ago, Ninja Chris said:

 

Yet you stripped half of my reply and cherry picked sentences out of context to try and validate your argument. 

 

ok

 

10 hours ago, Ninja Chris said:

"That's the entire point of beta testing the plugin... so they can gain feedback and ideas on what's good or bad and improve it over time."
 

"If a mode becomes unpopular it won't be played as much if not at all."

 

"(I believe they also have shorter map cooldowns) and as you said yourself they're more laid back so the casual players would prefer to play them over more complex maps that take time to understand as there are usually multiple pathways, bosses, items and levels which they wouldn't know anything about if they haven't played it before. "

 

"The majority vote will always win over the minority vote."

 

I can agree to all this.

 

10 hours ago, Ninja Chris said:

There's also a big difference between an absolute majority and a relative majority.

 

I got no idea what youre arguing with this. Now that I've addressed all your lines, you happy?

 

[ReivaX 63 / 2,626]

Did you literally ignore my post?

 

 

U 

R

An

Egotistical elephant.

 

Look no one cares. Go MSG him on discord...

[Ninja Chris 249 / 0]

Just now, gkuo88 said:

 

 

ok

 

 

I can agree to all this.

 

 

I got no idea what youre arguing with this. Now that I've addressed all your lines, you happy?

 

 

No. All of those gave context to the previous statements so you're clearly still contradicting yourself and avoiding my lips.

[hotEvercLear 194 / 4,723]

can we just try it out and see what happens? FFS!!!!

 

i actually am having a bit of fun with the fail nades.... i see a lot of room for "interesting" outcomes with this. 

 

I also like the suggest the thai ladyboy made about failnades+classic spawn... that could create some very interesting outcomes... i plan to test that on classic spawn maps this week like Jurassic or Boatescape. 

 

So far it has been fun, and unlike what I originally thought, I care about VIP Mode the least in reality. Crazy how things work out when you actually do it vs just arguing about possible what if scenarios on a message board on the internet with people who still play an obscure mode for a basically outdated game.... :omegalul:

[ReivaX 63 / 2,626]

When you vote for mm in a map, is it the desired outcome for players, who received fall nades instead of vip or 50k knife to then spam for the !undomm before voting a different one. 

 

I don't know whether you mind this or not, but it was the case on mako earlier today. To combat this you could set one mode for the map, so even if they voted mm again it would be the same as the original. 

 

This may be considered exploiting the system, as i said i am unsure of where your opinions lie.

[hotEvercLear 194 / 4,723]

there has been some confusion about this in server. 

 

Some people are very adamant on mic that if you get a MM on a map, even if you vote undoMM and then revote you will get the same MM again no matter what. 

 

Basically, people are spreading information that the MM variable is determined at the beginning of the map, and you can only turn it off and on through votes, and that is it. 

 

I dont think this is the case, but would love confirmation on this.