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Joel

Merge of the teams.

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Just now, Syntax said:

I request mods to lock this thread as it went from on-topic conversation about GFL's organisational system and staff chain changes into plain out personal attacks.

 

Thanks,

Syntax.

I request the opposite, more threads will be opened based off this topic, I'd rather get the issue dealt with instead of hiding the issue and moving forward. You have to attack the problem instead of hiding it, because hiding it will just cause more drama & "attacks" toward people.

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1 minute ago, TheSadBandit said:

I request the opposite, more threads will be opened based off this topic, I'd rather get the issue dealt with instead of hiding the issue and moving forward. You have to attack the problem instead of hiding it, because hiding it will just cause more drama & "attacks" toward people.

Yes but this particular thread truly isn't the place, I actually agree with most of your statement above and admire your courage and all but I'd rather see more productive arguments in here as to why this is/not a bad change. I'd be more than happy to call some people out lol but I don't believe this is the very correct place.

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5 minutes ago, TheSadBandit said:

I saw the whole DM list, sure you could go on about some screenshots here and there, but get a chance to read the whole DM he's had with people. He isn't rude until the person he's talking to says something snarky relating to the topic. The topic he's talking about changed to 1v1 because Pull said he wasn't interested in hearing him bash others, which is really all GFL is, it's bashing others & learning how to improve your image based off of what others think of you. That's how life is, you can't just hide your negative aspects and think you're doing great all the time, it just doesn't work that way. He has some great ideas, and I don't think anyone would go and speak to the whole PR team in a Discord to speak their ideas, I'm more of a conserved person & I would rather express my ideas privately and for others to make them public if they choose to. As for dan's way of acting, if you stopped and actually listened to what he has to say, beside the bashing of people who not only in his eyes, but in the eyes of many, then you would see he has great ideas, he's bashing people because that's how we all learn to grow up and get better at things, you can't just expect yourself to be working perfectly in the view of everyone, I disagree with some things YOU do, but all-in-all you also have a lot of good things you do. 

 

Hear him out is all I'm saying, no need to ignore someone because they're bashing someone else for things they see wrong, especially if you're PR role, the role in-and-out of itself deals with people, you can't just go and ignore someone because they're bashing on others & decide that their ideas are invalid. Maybe ask him why he's bashing someone, maybe ask him to stop bashing someone and continue with his idea, conversations get derailed so easily, maybe if you were to rail them back instead of ignore & move forward people would be less toxic. 

anything but bashing tbh I felt I was pretty reasonable here I have more pm's with others but since that was brought up into question and is being used to attack me with.
https://pastebin.com/7wCCLUqv

Edited by rapperdan

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@TheSadBandit I would hear him out and he told me to listen for once. In that post there simply were nothing to listen to. As I said, I'm open to listen as long as people don't start off by bashing for no reason. I don't request people to be perfect but being slightly polite and show some respect would go way further with all staff members instead of bashing them within 1 day of changes. And as I said... Pull did listen to the first things that dan said and he is currently working on some of it to change it slightly as a solution to a mix of things.

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Just now, Syntax said:

Yes but this particular thread truly isn't the place, I actually agree with most of your statement above and admire your courage and all but I'd rather see more productive arguments in here as to why this is/not a bad change. I'd be more than happy to call some people out lol but I don't believe this is the very correct place.

It's the actual correct place though, it's a forum & these things are meant for people to have conversations like these, unless you want me to create a public thread in the General section where this can be continued and dealt with.

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10 minutes ago, Worgee said:

Idk why you think inactivity isn't enough of a need to get rid of people. You don't have inactive admins hanging around for too long either. We got rid of the inactive and if you didn't see it coming then look back and think if it's okay to not do an admin task on a server for a month and transfer that theory to MA. As I said, you can re-apply if you wish to become part of it again

Admin work and MA work is totally different.

 

Having some inactive MA doesn't hurt at all, maybe one of these inactive haven't accepted apps due to time zones and such, and maybe he gets online and accept an app there.

 

But now with the bot, that will automatically accept the ones that need to, how are you going to determine who is inactive or who is active? By who answers first the questions or check the vac ban?

 

Once again, how was removing the inactives helping the team?

 

I also don't remember saying anything about inactivity being a good or bad factor in terms of demoting people.

 

And for not telling people who were demoted, why did it happen? Even if a copy and paste pm for everyone that was demoted, why wasn't it done or thought of?

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3 minutes ago, Pyros said:

Once again, how was removing the inactives helping the team?

It frees up space to allow for new members to join the team, this isn't TTT.

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Basically what Syntax said. We get space for new members that are motivated and wish to have a change of impacting GFL in some way, shape or form. If we kept inactive people that "might" get on once in a blue moon and accept then I'd rather have 1 new member that's motivated. 

If Syntax is right and you're used to inactivity on TTT then don't take that to other teams as it shouldn't be that way.

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Oh boy.

It has been difficult reading this topic and the 4 pages that came after it.

Being a part of GFL for the time that i have i learned fairly quickly that changes are mostly done by the ones in charge (be it the old BoD or community staff team regarding community changes or managers and server staff teams regarding server changes) which for a community is a very bad way of functioning.As we can see this decision and change for fhe merge of the teams and creation of new ranks had been made and agreed upon only between people who possess the staff badge and then released to the community itself.

My suggestion for the future of this community's growth is to place a lot more importance in community feedback but not on ideas that have already been implemented but ideas that would be voted and discussed upon.This is just common sense in my eyes,one that i never saw or heard even be mentioned in GFL in the time i've been here.

 

That is just my personal recommendation to the staff team on how to approach matters in the future.As for this one change in particular i won't go into it as i've read plenty of criticism of it that i somewhat agree on(if you are interested check my recent reactions to posts on my profile) but if i were to be asked i wouldn't opt for this organisation at all..

 

Moving forward i'd just like to ask some questions about things said here i just couldn't understand.

 

First,i've read multiple times here (mentioned by worgee) that the directors alone had a say in this matter.How is it then that @Ralsei in their response expressed negative feedback on the change,actually disagreeing with certain aspects of the changes made.When 4 directors(excluding roy since he is the founder though he had a say as well) are not able to have a unanimous vote on a matter that non the less goes through you know something is wrong.But my question is how did it go through in this case?Does the vote of every director count or did this response come after an initial agreement in which case i still don't understand.

 

Secondly a question you can think of me being biased to ask but it is non the less one i want to ask and is about Member Acceptors.A team of people that have been around a lot longer than any of the new inventions,yet one that i feel is being looked at differently atleast importance and appreciation (towards work that has been done and work that will be done) wise.The question is simply why are member acceptors the only team that are discriminated of all that make up the new public relations one why do it's members not get acknowledged as such on forums(via ranks).Is it because of the new bot's role to accept most member applications and the MA role is being internally discussed at the moment?(without the team's knowledge or feedback if i may say)

 

As you can see it's not hard to guess the answers to these questions but the real one is why should anyone have to?Why don't people with  clan's membership have these things available to them.When is GFL going to be transparent with it's members and ask what they want and what they think is best for the community they love and are apart of.

 

 

P.S. When someone is demoted they should be notified of the said demotion no matter what you think of it.I can see why @Pyros had a need to voice  his questions.

Edited by nocheat
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55 minutes ago, Pyros said:

And for not telling people who were demoted, why did it happen?

still hasn't be answered 

 

20 minutes ago, King_Wailord said:

So am i still PR and MA or neither anymore?

I guess you must do just like everyone that was demoted from MA, check if you were added to the new PM or not. They don't say it anymore

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Hello, Sadbandit in regard to your question,
 

What changes have you/will you do to the team? Because ever since I asked that question the answer has always been a “you will see” or “changes are coming”, and I’ve given you in detail what I’ve done, so I’d like for you to do the same.

 

So, to start off my list of what I have done within GFL so far in regards to change, I’m going to be listing how I became the role I am now, it all started off with me contact Christian/Roy, I was generally talking to him and he told about the current issues within GFL I then offered some advice and ideas that might help the community, this lead to myself and qDogg making a document, https://docs.google.com/document/d/1du0JE0PURD6BYqjb5-wXWdOOsRqq3U-EYgtjcc1cS9A/edit?usp=sharing

Then myself and qDogg got added into the “Internal” discord and a channel was created called Feedback, for nearly over a month we were getting feedback from the internal members and the Team Leaders at the time, most was positive about the changes and some weren’t regarding some suggestions we had put forward, the main one we suggested was the Merge of the teams, which everyone was concerned about this is something we knew needed to happen as most of the teams didn’t have enough power nor activity within the teams. After looking over them for a while and seeing what could be changed and the ideas we both had. Then I and qDogg got promoted to Team Leaders, this was something which caused drama and upset for how the promotions were handled and how we were just placed in the team not knowing that the other Team Leader wasn’t aware of the upcoming changes we have planned. How our promotion was executed was terrible, which this is something that couldn’t be helped as Rick had limited time to act on how this was going to happen. The tension within the team was appalling and not much time was given to the Directors or our selves to explain why we were in the roles. I started making changes within the Media team discord because I believed me joining the discord was resulting in Sadbandit and Flyingjoe being demoted. This was not the case until later on, without my knowledge as I thought it was happening I started doing changes and posting and asking the media team what changes they would like to see and I was speaking to the Second in command role within Media team which was Rose/Aura. I proceeded to do changes, thinking the demotions of the two current leaders was going to happen shortly, this was not the case, furthermore, this caused upset and disruption without the media team knowing what I was doing there and the current leaders themselves, which I have apologised for countless times! I didn’t know I was allowed to share my ideas with the Media team nor was approved by Rick to say go ahead and suggest them until a later date, this is why my comment about changes was blunt nor had any real information which I apologise for again, as I am aware this caused upset in regard to this. Due to me causing issues, I wasn’t aware at the time the current leaders of the media team created a discord chat bashing me to other members within the team and trying to convince current members to deny any changes. Plus with the merge happening, in regards to this trying to convince second in command Rose/Aura to try and get me to lose my role within the media team discord. I wasn’t aware until afterwards everyone was “plotting” against me, which is something which shocked me and it upset me when people could just come and speak to me if they had an issue or question. I don’t believe I am an unapproachable person. I encourage people to talk about concerns they have and any suggestions I propose or anything people don’t like, I do listen. With this happening and no one wanting me within the media team or nothing to do with the changes and plans and goals I had, I decided it would be the best for me to leave the media team as I felt I wasn’t wanted. After that, I decided to still be in the discord, I did eventually share my ideas with the current leader, and they seemed to really like my ideas, which I was pleased with. I don’t hold any grudges against people as we have to work together if we want things to work. I was willing to help them achieve my ideas as I wanted to see them work and implemented. I refused to have any rank within the media team discord as I didn’t want to cause any more upset. So this brings me to the question what have I done so far in regards to the teams and what are the plans.

We posted the Merge for transparency as everyone wanted transparency of changes, the final plan and how everything was going to work is still in the works, which is concerning me, since no one is willing to give us time to put a document together explaining the changes and how we want things to run with the merge and the new sub-leader rank. Sadly, the topic has become toxic and not supporting changes or having actual opinions or advice, it’s just constantly bashing on something which we’re trying to implement

 

Currently what I have done:

Somewhat cleaning up the forums, this is a work in progress, check here for updates:  
https://gflclan.com/forums/topic/10908-website-updates/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-181211

Currently, in the progress of setting up the merge and making sure sub-forums are in the correct place of the merge, E.G: https://gflclan.com/forums/forum/769-public-relations/

All the subforums before are merged within the public relations main sub-forum,

Got Rick to set up the Sub-Leader rank as this is something council can’t do, we had him give them permissions to just edit their subforum so they have no other permissions, also giving them access to accept members in their applications area.

 

I merged all the teams within the public relations rank, adding everyone under one rank, getting Roy to remove Media and Events Management, as it’s no longer a needed rank. -Thanks.

This is something which was planned months ago, as the internal discord was aware that these changes were going to be implemented and mostly agreed with.

 

(Most of the changes, was implemented by Worgee and I)






 

Worgee and I decided to tackle the Member acceptor team as that was abandoned and forgot about, we removed all the inactive members, since we went back and checked to see if any of the current member acceptors were accepting applications, this leads to the majority of the member acceptor team getting removed from the role, as they weren’t active nor accepted a member applications for weeks, and even months, so surprising when we check and do changes and remove people from the role they weren’t active in they come out of the shadows and complain when they weren’t active in the first place. This is sad as we make changes people come back and complain and ask why their role was removed? You shouldn’t need to ask when you know why. Then Xy, added a bot to accept member applications. The only apps it doesn’t accept is those with a ban on record and/or with a VAC (Xy can correct if wrong). this makes the role of accepting members easier and quicker so people aren’t waiting around, but if they have a ban or vac ban a member acceptor deals with their application. This is something which is a very good idea to have and helps bring members into the community quicker, so thank you, Xy, for that.

 

In regard to what the Sub Leader role is and what the Merge means and what’s going to be happening will be posted soon in another post. So, for now, all we ask is for your patience.

 

ALSO THE VOTE ON THE MERGE: https://gyazo.com/da9bfaebef11722cbaa5064db5212d45

 

ENJOY :) (all team members and manager+ were able to vote)

 

Thanks - Joel  

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