Revamping the Official Discord - Issues now and Possible Solutions

[Harakoni 729 / 12,354]

It's been said before, it'll probably be said again, but nearly everyone remaining who frequents the Official Discord has seen it - a lack of activity, or to put it in more commonly seen terms "This server's dead".
It's irked me and a few others that have bothered to say anything about it, and i think it's time something finally be done and considered to up the use and appeal of the Official Discord - Hell, it's now nearly overshadowed by the Prop hunt server. So, i'm here today to propose some issues and how to solve them, as well as suggestions for upping the activity, appeal, and use of our under-maintained and under-loved main discord.
Issue 1 - Shitposting:
Recently, a considerable portion of the server's downfall can be attributed by what goes on in the chats; especially general and off topic. The general "conversations" - they don't even deserve to be described as such half the time - often comprise of senseless, uninteresting repetitive posts. Many are at fault for this, but it can't be attributed as a fault for everyone to be punished. It's happened because of a general progression of what has slowly been exempted and ignored from the rules, now some of the rules aren't even enforced in these chats. (No this is not a callout saying "mods are shit xDDD" - it's the truth and i'm fed up of it)
Over the past few weeks it's worse than ever, near everytime someone talks it's always the same barrage of stale, unfunny inside jokes between one or two people or general shitposting that stifles and kills off any attempt of ordinary human conversation, only yesterday did i have my first meaningful conversation about anything in over a month - and it was ended by guess how? A barrage of shitposts and meaningless messages between 2 or 3 people.
I've often taken reflection on last years chat's, and how they were much more meaningful and enjoyable to many - now more than ever is this a contrast to the chat's current state. It's time for a change, which leads me to;
Solutions:
Harsher, legitimate moderation on such messages - This isn't something i'd like to suggest, but now it's a reasonable way to curb the endless spam and crap spouted in the chats. This would involve mods encouraging, or forcing, users attributed to be spamming and shitposting to move into other chats such as off topic if a conversation is occurring, or if it's just a chain of, i quote myself here, "eye cancer" the outright deletion of such messages and possibly warnings and mutes. I would lie and say i dislike this approach, but at this point, it's one of the few ways to approach the situation.
Training of what is spam and what is not for the mod team - I'm often confronted or asked in my complaints about what constitutes spam. In summary, it's a chain or repetition of senseless, unneeded messages serving no purpose or little purpose to any context at all, and/or jokes long since stale or deceased which provides no benefit. 
The removal of images and embeds appearing in general - I don't like this approach, but it does a very good job of curbing image and link shitposts. However, it also creates a vacuum for a place to post images, and may just relocate the posting to other chats.

Issue 2 - Image Contents:
It's a shame i've had to echo this for probably the 30th time, but here it is - Double Standards. It's more often and often that i see this enacted, and relates somewhat to my previous mention of exempting things from the rules, for example, many jump the gun to delete a lewd pic in #memes, #anime, or many other interest channels, and sadly ignore General and Off topic. Since yesterday, a near full 24 hours, a gif of a dancing midget stripper has sat untouched in off topic. It's time for things to be dealt with and not purposely ignored.
Solutions:
Similarly as above, training of what exactly qualifies as NSFW, Minor or Major, Lewd content, and acceptable content - This isn't a call to change the rules, this is a call to give mods limits as to what is, and is NOT acceptable, because the rules are not universally applied fairly - and sometimes at all. 
Ensure mods pay attention to every chat - There is the possibility that such content was missed, but due to mods often talking almost right after many of these posts... not likely.

Now that the two massive issues are out of the way, i'd like to talk about incentives to be added to the official discord to increase population and user-activity.

Incentive 1 - Points Rewards:

I have already approached people with this idea, and it is under current discussion to my knowledge. Basically, this involves giving the player a reward in-game (Like GFL Prop hunt's 10,000 in-game point reward for joining their discord) for joining the official discord. It is under scrutiny for it's implementation, due to say, CS:GO's server not having a point-shop, as well as separate point economies each requiring different reward values - it's quite hard to standardise across so many different servers. This in itself would not be the 100% final solution chat's active again hooray plan, but it would allow fresh faces to join, and possibly stay in the server and talk which leads me to -
Incentive 2 - Message Score Rankings:
This would work using a bots message recording scoreboard (The multiple bots have different ones but can be accessed with t!top for Tatsumaki, !xplb for Gearbot [i believe]) Tastumaki, for example, has a built in plugin that awards a rank upon a message score. (A previous server i frequented had two chats, 2 globals and yet had a HEAVILY active user base of nearly 300 people, most talking to get message score roles displaying their name higher on the task bar.) This creates another issue however - how would it be implemented? The server's version displayed each role separately (tiny, small, big, huge, titanic) on the sidebar below the moderators and above, which gave incentive for many people to compete there as a badge of pride. If it got too full at the top ranks? The scores were reset and chat became very active once again. 
In the same server, the owner trialed un-hoisting the roles so it was just placed under your profile name. This was still an incentive, but wasn't as popular and resulted in a lot less activity than before (about 50ish people max then).
Incentive 2 - More Frequent Events:
This would have two sides, the first being non-GFL server related (Town of Salem events, Cards against Humanity, Karaoke) and GFL server related events - for example, a Friday night TTT event hosted in the official discord - this could both increase population within official AND the server. Leading to a great opportunity. The server's current events, albeit sparse and short, are VERY popular - especially Karaoke events with it's Hoisted role reward (cough cough as above with message score rewards), and one of these a week - of any kind - could result in quite the boost in activity. The days hosted could even alternate to accommodate people who couldn't attend on the regular Friday/Sunday events that occur now.

I hope this is actually considered as viable options, i don't want to see the discord die.
Sincerely, Harakoni, that bloke that complains too much.

[SLAVE 4 / 659]

+1 
Although im not in the main discord, if this is the issue (Which I believe that it highly) then what you have said is perfect to what GFL as a community should do, Stop having shitty conversations, stop posting boring memes in sections OTHER than the memes section and it would all be well and dandy, thank you for taking the time to explain how and why we should fix this issue and im pretty sure you summed it all up perfectly, thank you

[Ben 2,378 / 31,861]

24 minutes ago, Harakoni said:

This would work using a bots message recording scoreboard (The multiple bots have different ones but can be accessed with t!top for Tatsumaki, !xplb for Gearbot [i believe]) Tastumaki, for example, has a built in plugin that awards a rank upon a message score. (A previous server i frequented had two chats, 2 globals and yet had a HEAVILY active user base of nearly 300 people, most talking to get message score roles displaying their name higher on the task bar.) This creates another issue however - how would it be implemented? The server's version displayed each role separately (tiny, small, big, huge, titanic) on the sidebar below the moderators and above, which gave incentive for many people to compete there as a badge of pride. If it got too full at the top ranks? The scores were reset and chat became very active once again. 
In the same server, the owner trialed un-hoisting the roles so it was just placed under your profile name. This was still an incentive, but wasn't as popular and resulted in a lot less activity than before (about 50ish people max then

This is possible for our RedBot to do this instead of Tatsumaki. The only issue is that it may require MongoDB, and I am not sure if it may support on one of our machines. I can look into this and get the cog implemented on RedBot.

 

Keep in mind that the bot has a plugin-ish system, so we could have one of our developers build a custom cog if I cannot find it, but I'm fairly sure that it exists somewhere else. 

[Rena 2,779 / 33,647]

BEN STOP THE COMIC SANS MADNESS

[RivalRevival 986 / 13,689]

I can't read Ben's 3rd grade throw up text, but 

 

+1, we can use the bot to assist with incentives, as well as add this to coexist with a current proposal that is in the works (SoonTM)

[Guest SkydivingSquid]

There isn’t really much in place as far as rules to keep the discord free of “cancer”. . .Unless someone is spamming, posting lewd content, advertising, or posting in the wrong channel, there is very little black & white your moderators can fall back on. I was taken aback at some of the language and interactions that were allowed when I challenged them (upon discovering channels outside of my regular TTT). 

Incentivizing moderators with a point system implementation is one thing, but I feel if you are looking to change the I/O of the discord as a whole, you will need to modernize and update the rules. 

Training is a good idea. 

A pinned “updated terms+conditions” may need to be posted to see real change. 
 

[eueuq 188 / 2,353]

1 hour ago, SkydivingSquid said:

Incentivizing moderators with a point system implementation is one thing, but I feel if you are looking to change the I/O of the discord as a whole, you will need to modernize and update the rules.

What do you mean by this? If you mean adding rules to ban certain words from being said or whatever is deemed "toxic behavior", I strongly disagree. The type of precedent it would set is very dangerous and honestly will cause more problems than there are currently. We have already seen what that future entails with the actions of certain individuals and the introduction of certain bots.

 

Quote

1. Spamming:
Do not commit any form of spamming e.g. mic-spamming, mass-tagging, many consecutive messages, etc.
2. Private Matters:
Do not discuss anything confidential with another user in public.
3. Channel Topics:
Do not talk about unrelated topics in specific channels e.g. talking about Breach in the Murder channel.

 

These already existing rules cover a lot of the problem, but are rarely enforced properly. It is a lack of enforcement problem, not a rule problem. I know since I wrote the rules essentially and gave all the tools the moderators would need in order to effectively do their job.

Edited April 14, 2019 by eueuq

[Le Quack 130 / 3,588]

As far as the “Off Topic” portion goes, it’s named that for a reason.  Unless we come up with a discord channel specifally labeled “shitpost”, that’s where it’s gonna ultimately end up.  People want to shitpost as messed up as that sounds.  It’s honestly part of today’s society if you think about it.  Just my take on that 

[Skittlez 721 / 11,279]

My apologies this took so long @Harakoni I was dealing with some stuff (CA Application). So I'll just split my comments up as I go back over it. 

On 4/13/2019 at 6:11 PM, Harakoni said:

It's been said before, it'll probably be said again, but nearly everyone remaining who frequents the Official Discord has seen it - a lack of activity, or to put it in more commonly seen terms "This server's dead".

Well, I hesitate to say it but yes I completely agree with you. The server population/activity is truly not as populated as it could be. Weighing we have a server of over 2,000 members and only roughly 20 of them are talking certainly shows what kind of a group we have. Although we have an active group of normal conversating people, the majority are staff or former staff. 

 

On 4/13/2019 at 6:11 PM, Harakoni said:

It's irked me and a few others that have bothered to say anything about it, and i think it's time something finally be done and considered to up the use and appeal of the Official Discord - Hell, it's now nearly overshadowed by the Prop hunt server. So, i'm here today to propose some issues and how to solve them, as well as suggestions for upping the activity, appeal, and use of our under-maintained and under-loved main discord.

I'm glad that you're not the only one that has noticed this trend. It's very apparent that there are increasingly significant issues involving the official Disord server. Many issues can be tweaked and improved. I just want to mention this really quick; please, feel free to give us input even if you think it's ridiculous. We would rather you give us something than absolutely nothing. This is a community-based issue that should be resolved by including the communities input. We cannot read your mind, 😉 you've got to speak to us! Oh boy, time to get into the meat and potatoes 😁

 

On 4/13/2019 at 6:11 PM, Harakoni said:

Issue 1 - Shitposting:
Recently, a considerable portion of the server's downfall can be attributed by what goes on in the chats; especially general and off topic. The general "conversations" - they don't even deserve to be described as such half the time - often comprise of senseless, uninteresting repetitive posts. Many are at fault for this, but it can't be attributed as a fault for everyone to be punished. It's happened because of a general progression of what has slowly been exempted and ignored from the rules, now some of the rules aren't even enforced in these chats. (No this is not a callout saying "mods are shit xDDD" - it's the truth and i'm fed up of it)
Over the past few weeks it's worse than ever, near everytime someone talks it's always the same barrage of stale, unfunny inside jokes between one or two people or general shitposting that stifles and kills off any attempt of ordinary human conversation, only yesterday did i have my first meaningful conversation about anything in over a month - and it was ended by guess how? A barrage of shitposts and meaningless messages between 2 or 3 people.
I've often taken reflection on last years chat's, and how they were much more meaningful and enjoyable to many - now more than ever is this a contrast to the chat's current state. It's time for a change, which leads me to;

Once again I fully agree with what you've said. The over majority of conversations that occur have barely any logic to them. I'd also agree that carpet punishments are not the way to deal with this matter. Punishing everyone and expecting things to change is truly counterintuitive. We need to have a more standard way of dealing with certain issues and be consistent with that punishment. I understand that you're not calling out the mods but I am. Moderation in GFL has declined greatly in the past few years. The way we punish people has changed. And to be frank, I'm not sure if I like it. Punishments like a one-day mute are truly not that bad and are minimalistic for the long run. On many of our game servers punishments only start at one-day bans and then get more severe from there. Warnings are verbal but are not required. People are expected to understand the rules and obey them. Anyways, I'll stop ranting. 

 

On 4/13/2019 at 6:11 PM, Harakoni said:

Solutions:
Harsher, legitimate moderation on such messages - This isn't something i'd like to suggest, but now it's a reasonable way to curb the endless spam and crap spouted in the chats. This would involve mods encouraging, or forcing, users attributed to be spamming and shitposting to move into other chats such as off topic if a conversation is occurring, or if it's just a chain of, i quote myself here, "eye cancer" the outright deletion of such messages and possibly warnings and mutes. I would lie and say i dislike this approach, but at this point, it's one of the few ways to approach the situation.
Training of what is spam and what is not for the mod team - I'm often confronted or asked in my complaints about what constitutes spam. In summary, it's a chain or repetition of senseless, unneeded messages serving no purpose or little purpose to any context at all, and/or jokes long since stale or deceased which provides no benefit. 
The removal of images and embeds appearing in general - I don't like this approach, but it does a very good job of curbing image and link shitposts. However, it also creates a vacuum for a place to post images, and may just relocate the posting to other chats.

Yeah, a lot of general is as you say "eye cancer". I truly don't enjoy chatting in general anymore just because of how toxic and how little actual conversation goes on. That's why I opt for interest channels and usually the staff chats because I can get a meaningful conversation going. Once things are sorted out we'll decide on the best way to moderate such behavior. Currently, we're only moderating Channel Topic and Spam offenses which is very broad and leaves a lot of leeway for unwanted toxic behavior. Hopefully, these changes will come soon. More training and better examples would help benefit the moderators, especially the newer ones who haven't dealt with many situations that GFL has. That is something that can be worked on and improved. Removing embedding isn't an awful idea, I can see embedding being enabled for Supporter+. Worth looking into... 

 

On 4/13/2019 at 6:11 PM, Harakoni said:

Issue 2 - Image Contents:
It's a shame i've had to echo this for probably the 30th time, but here it is - Double Standards. It's more often and often that i see this enacted, and relates somewhat to my previous mention of exempting things from the rules, for example, many jump the gun to delete a lewd pic in #memes, #anime, or many other interest channels, and sadly ignore General and Off topic. Since yesterday, a near full 24 hours, a gif of a dancing midget stripper has sat untouched in off topic. It's time for things to be dealt with and not purposely ignored.

Hmm... I don't exactly know how to respond to this. Forgive me if I misinterpret this; I believe a lot of the time there is a lack of moderation for these anime/meme pictures is because of how borderline it is. Plus, how exactly do you moderate what is borderline? Everyone has their own level of comfort to what is acceptable. Some people may find this as too much while others disagree. How much cleavage is too much cleavage? Do we need to be training out mods on how to gauge anime character's ages? And then in memes, you get things like porn parodies, are we allowing NSFW content with little black lines over them? That's still considered pornographic content... right? See? It's becoming a what are you comfortable with type of situation. By the way, I have nothing against anime, there are things on American television that are way worse than an animated girl with large breast. 

 

On 4/13/2019 at 6:11 PM, Harakoni said:

Solutions:
Similarly as above, training of what exactly qualifies as NSFW, Minor or Major, Lewd content, and acceptable content - This isn't a call to change the rules, this is a call to give mods limits as to what is, and is NOT acceptable, because the rules are not universally applied fairly - and sometimes at all. 
Ensure mods pay attention to every chat - There is the possibility that such content was missed, but due to mods often talking almost right after many of these posts... not likely.

Like I mentioned, it's not really a line you can draw. This is a what are you comfortable with situation. Unless I'm misinterpreting this I'm not sure how to train someone on what is and isn't unacceptable. There is very clear NSFW content and also underage things that shouldn't be posted but other than that, how do you judge what someone posts? I agree that mods need to be checking every chat though. I try to do it when I swap between servers. I have all the chats unmuted so I know when there's a new message. The only thing I don't scroll back in is #general just because it's usually 200+ new messages. 😂

 

On 4/13/2019 at 6:11 PM, Harakoni said:

Now that the two massive issues are out of the way, i'd like to talk about incentives to be added to the official discord to increase population and user-activity.

Whoop whoop, now we're to the potatoes. 
 

On 4/13/2019 at 6:11 PM, Harakoni said:

Incentive 1 - Points Rewards:

I have already approached people with this idea, and it is under current discussion to my knowledge. Basically, this involves giving the player a reward in-game (Like GFL Prop hunt's 10,000 in-game point reward for joining their discord) for joining the official discord. It is under scrutiny for it's implementation, due to say, CS:GO's server not having a point-shop, as well as separate point economies each requiring different reward values - it's quite hard to standardise across so many different servers. This in itself would not be the 100% final solution chat's active again hooray plan, but it would allow fresh faces to join, and possibly stay in the server and talk which leads me to -

Yeah, this is something we're working on. @Xy_ was the one working on this. I proposed this to him a few months ago, not sure where we're at with that though. 

 

On 4/13/2019 at 6:11 PM, Harakoni said:

Incentive 2 - Message Score Rankings:
This would work using a bots message recording scoreboard (The multiple bots have different ones but can be accessed with t!top for Tatsumaki, !xplb for Gearbot [i believe]) Tastumaki, for example, has a built in plugin that awards a rank upon a message score. (A previous server i frequented had two chats, 2 globals and yet had a HEAVILY active user base of nearly 300 people, most talking to get message score roles displaying their name higher on the task bar.) This creates another issue however - how would it be implemented? The server's version displayed each role separately (tiny, small, big, huge, titanic) on the sidebar below the moderators and above, which gave incentive for many people to compete there as a badge of pride. If it got too full at the top ranks? The scores were reset and chat became very active once again. 
In the same server, the owner trialed un-hoisting the roles so it was just placed under your profile name. This was still an incentive, but wasn't as popular and resulted in a lot less activity than before (about 50ish people max then).

Huh, this is a cool idea. Maybe something worth looking into. I see Ben has already responded. Hopefully, this is something we could get implemented 😁

 

On 4/13/2019 at 6:11 PM, Harakoni said:

Incentive 2 - More Frequent Events:
This would have two sides, the first being non-GFL server related (Town of Salem events, Cards against Humanity, Karaoke) and GFL server related events - for example, a Friday night TTT event hosted in the official discord - this could both increase population within official AND the server. Leading to a great opportunity. The server's current events, albeit sparse and short, are VERY popular - especially Karaoke events with it's Hoisted role reward (cough cough as above with message score rewards), and one of these a week - of any kind - could result in quite the boost in activity. The days hosted could even alternate to accommodate people who couldn't attend on the regular Friday/Sunday events that occur now.

I'll be discussing something similar to this with trusted Soon™️ 😉

 

On 4/13/2019 at 6:11 PM, Harakoni said:

I hope this is actually considered as viable options, i don't want to see the discord die.
Sincerely, Harakoni, that bloke that complains too much.

Really good suggestions! I hope I was able to respond in the way you had hoped. Please, feel free to ask if you have any concerns or questions!

 

Thanks, Skittlez. 

 

P.S. Complain more 😉