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DUSTY

The real Human vs Zombie discussion

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If you read my first post about human vs zombie then consider that a solution to zombie inflating that was pertinent back when points were given for playing as a zombie. Right now, it's the worst thing imaginable to be selected as mother zombie. Nobody wants to play as one and instant spectating or afk is generally the result. Points as a zombie encouraged becoming one by either killing yourself or allowing to be knifed, which is where inflating came into play. What if points were turned back on, but only mother zombies get full points per kill while humans killed during the round get a fraction per kill like 1/5 the amount? I would really like to enjoy competing as a zombie once again and I know others would as well. If you take my suggestion of allowing you to choose which side you would like to begin a round as you can solve the issue of inflating while also getting people who actually try as zombie. The server was once at it's peak when you had people actually wanting to play as a zombie, and the human goal was to beat a map and not allow the zombies to get their points.

 

If you didn't read the first post...basically let people choose which side they want to play as where as you start as mother zombie if you want to accumulate points instead of killing yourself as CT and inflating that way. Let's go back to the days where you didn't dread being chosen as starting zombie while also making completing a map as a human more satisfying because zombies are actually trying and you still crouched under those lasers.

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8 minutes ago, Malal said:

Can't wait to choose to be MZ every round and take OP zm item and kill the entire team.

 

What's wrong with a zombie that's gonna try? Why not have CTs learn to stop these items? Would make for a better experience imo and be more gratifying when I take that screenshot after shutting you down. 

 

If there is a persistent issue why not allow admins the ability to turn the feature of choosing sides off for a map?

Edited by DUSTY

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1 hour ago, DUSTY said:

 

What's wrong with a zombie that's gonna try? Why not have CTs learn to stop these items? Would make for a better experience imo and be more gratifying when I take that screenshot after shutting you down. 

 

If there is a persistent issue why not allow admins the ability to turn the feature of choosing sides off for a map?

There are certain items that used in certain spots can kill nearly the entire team with little to no way of countering

>If there is a persistent issue why not allow admins the ability to turn the feature of choosing sides off for a map?

Admins are not always on

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5 hours ago, Malal said:

There are certain items that used in certain spots can kill nearly the entire team with little to no way of countering

>If there is a persistent issue why not allow admins the ability to turn the feature of choosing sides off for a map?

Admins are not always on

 

I wouldn't mind hearing which maps these are and then having a discussion whether to have the choose your side plugin active. If 3 maps are like that why generalize and discard the whole idea? The fact that admins aren't always on argument does nothing for me. If that's the case why even have the server open if someone's not always there to babysit.

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50 minutes ago, DUSTY said:

 

I wouldn't mind hearing which maps these are and then having a discussion whether to have the choose your side plugin active. If 3 maps are like that why generalize and discard the whole idea? The fact that admins aren't always on argument does nothing for me. If that's the case why even have the server open if someone's not always there to babysit.

Minas, Westersand, Skyrim mainly.

52 minutes ago, DUSTY said:

If that's the case why even have the server open if someone's not always there to babysit.

False equivalence

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Wot the fock is going on, where the heck is the original post and the posts after it? Either way, I'm pretty sure I read the original post several times over, and it wasn't about how unappealing it is to play as a zombie, but requesting to be as zombie without inflating.

 

First of all, how am I supposed to believe you when you first ask for a mechanic to play as a starting zombie, then proceed to say that mother zombies are unfun to play as? Second, just because a few players do not wish to play as mother zombie doesn't mean that all players find it unappealing, and if it was like that, then we would have an issue where most or all mother zombies are going afk, which would be heavily noticeable. Third, the issue of mother zombie being unappealing for a few is completely separate from requesting to choose which side you start on. 

 

Lastly, inflation isn't tied down to points. Harder maps tend to have more people inflating. This is simply because certain players find it more appealing to play as zombie on those maps. It is already hard to win as a human on these maps, and having the right player in the zombie position pretty much ruins the entire session into a constant stream of losses. Then there are those who purposely wish to cause trouble for the majority, and those who just find winning as a zombie 9 out of 10 times more appealing than loosing as a human 9 out of 10 times. Letting these players freely choose to play as zombie is the equivalence of inflating, which like I said, has been an issue in the past.

 

7 hours ago, DUSTY said:

Why not have CTs learn to stop these items?

No,  just focking stop. There is nothing more cancerous than implementing something, consequences occur, and then blaming the playerbase or the admins for not playing in X manner and Y strategy.

 

39 minutes ago, DUSTY said:

The fact that admins aren't always on argument does nothing for me. If that's the case why even have the server open if someone's not always there to babysit.

Wait a second, I'm pretty sure that you were the one to suggest that if it becomes a persistent issue that admins should come and turn it off manually. Now it's boiled down to "we should have the mechanic, and close the server when admins aren't on"?

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12 minutes ago, gkuo88 said:

First of all, how am I supposed to believe you when you first ask for a mechanic to play as a starting zombie, then proceed to say that mother zombies are unfun to play as? Second, just because a few players do not wish to play as mother zombie doesn't mean that all players find it unappealing, and if it was like that, then we would have an issue where most or all mother zombies are going afk, which would be heavily noticeable. Third, the issue of mother zombie being unappealing for a few is completely separate from requesting to choose which side you start on. 

 

Lastly, inflation isn't tied down to points. Harder maps tend to have more people inflating. This is simply because certain players find it more appealing to play as zombie on those maps. It is already hard to win as a human on these maps, and having the right player in the zombie position pretty much ruins the entire session into a constant stream of losses. Then there are those who purposely wish to cause trouble for the majority, and those who just find winning as a zombie 9 out of 10 times more appealing than loosing as a human 9 out of 10 times. Letting these players freely choose to play as zombie is the equivalence of inflating, which like I said, has been an issue in the past.

 

No,  just focking stop. There is nothing more cancerous than implementing something, consequences occur, and then blaming the playerbase or the admins for not playing in X manner and Y strategy.

 

Wait a second, I'm pretty sure that you were the one to suggest that if it becomes a persistent issue that admins should come and turn it off manually. Now it's boiled down to "we should have the mechanic, and close the server when admins aren't on"?

 

Because the two would go hand-in-hand with eachother. Zombie is boring as fuck right now and dont even try to tell me people actually look forward to being selected as MZ because they don't.  This is a solution to lazy inflating where you can be a starting 8 and not be ostracized for it, while also encouraging those to play as zombie by rewarding points. Why are you so scared of having zombies that know what they're doing? Humans can be as skilled as they want but no no no can't let zombies get too good or else the game isn't fun. Just listen to yourself that's ridiculous.

 

If hard maps tend to have more people inflating already why not take away their ability to dramatically lower the human chances by killing themselves mid round but instead making them a starting 8? How is that such an imbalance that it will become unplayable? You have 50 humans with guns, why should you get to brag when you beat a map but zombies can't feel accomplished for stopping you. You seem to be really concerned about this but since basically that's the only time you join to play I can't really take your input as gospel.

 

As for your last point.  I did say if maps have overpowered zombie items this feature should be turned off, but you don't need an admin on to toggle each time. If we can single out these what 5 maps (if that) from the rest it can be done automatically.

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No it doesn't work like that, I'm pretty sure having 8 pro zombies at the beginning of the round is more damaging to human chances verses having 8 pro zombies join in midround. And having the same group of pro zombies at the beginning of every single round kills variety, so if multiple rounds of losses leads to driving in the idea that the situation is hopeless for players. 

 

I hate to break it to you for like the 3rd time, there's a freaking reason why inflating was considered as a massive problem. It's because people saw it as an imbalance that made the game unplayable. You may not see it like that, but other players have had the experience where a few select players managed to drag enough rounds down until the session became a shit experience. And yes this became enough of an issue that the admins had to decide "no we cannot have this player play as a zombie every single round"

 

Also zombies will probably never feel as accomplished on winning on a tryhard map, and having players get to choose to play as zombie will not change any of that. Tryhard maps make it so zombie can put in minimal effort and win, and tryhard maps tend to have much more zombie wins than human wins. Human wins feel like an accomplishment because they are rare and they took alot of effort. If you wish to feel accomplished as a zombie you should go play on a map where humans win often because it will be harder for zombies to accomplish a win.

 

1 hour ago, DUSTY said:

Humans can be as skilled as they want but no no no can't let zombies get too good or else the game isn't fun. 

Unironically this. You think its a joke, but map deaths, server deaths have constantly been tied to zombies getting too good, but never the vice versa. Zombies become too good, humans end up never winning, players begin to leave the server and spam rtv as the session begins to drag on. Either way it becomes apparent that players are frustrated and not having fun.

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Good idea, the admin toggle on/off makes it even better (could also disable on certain maps instead). Don't need to debate everything, just add this feature and see what happens. 

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12 hours ago, Chewie2k said:

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) this is the dumbest post ive seen , choosing to me a mz lmfao 

 

Exactly, because there is never a reason to play as zombie. I'd like to hear why zombie points were first implemented by Kim, and then why they were taken out by Delta. If the reason being people were inflating then did you ever consider that was because playing as a zombie was actually fun? Why you would be opposed to having both humans and zombies enjoy playing is beyond me. If I would rather get my points up because I couldn't care less about winning some FF map, then I would choose to be starting zombie and let more people who actually want to jump those lasers play as human. On top of that, If you fraction the points for non mother zombies then people would be less inclined to just die and inflate that way. Being afraid because zombies are too good is a joke. I'd rather have zombies who are interested then what it is now with these fake wins because 10 people are spectating doing absolutely nothing on the server and holding a slot. And yes, I am one of them. Make beating a map actually mean something again.

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It's the bane of Zombie Escape unfortunately. Most people don't want to play as a Zombie and often go AFK or to spectate, ruining the experience for everyone else. Maps haven't helped this cause either as they're getting to 15-30 minutes long for a single stage and who wants to play as a zombie for that long?

 

NiDE CS:S server is a great example. Quite often there will be only 1 or 2 zombies actually playing and they die (or leave) and the round ends. The admins there actually have to force people onto a team as everybody goes spectator.

 

Then comes the other issue of people getting bored because there are no zombies to shoot and maps are becoming easier, so the server will decrease knockback or add to the mother zombie count... But then when all the zombies are playing, this creates an unbalance and zombies will win every time.

 

I don't know if there is a solution to this, perhaps kicking spectators more often and decrease the AFK timer.

Edited by Neiva

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49 minutes ago, Neiva said:

I don't know if there is a solution to this, perhaps kicking spectators more often and decrease the AFK timer.

Do what DtK does, block people from spectating and add gameme points

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6 hours ago, DUSTY said:

did you ever consider that was because playing as a zombie was actually fun?

You can make a human do the most mundane and menial work for a false sense of satisfaction and reward powered by imaginary points, hence why people copy funny posts to reupload on social media, I have seen people nail their fucking dick to a board just for reddit points.

 

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15 hours ago, Malal said:

Do what DtK does, block people from spectating and add gameme points

Yea, cause DtK is doing soooooo well in terms of population with that system. In general it is going to be up the mappers to make it enjoyable for zombies and not having them sit in a cage for a 5 minute boss fight every round. On tryhard maps in general too, humans are the only ones that get any interesting items or if zombies get them, they are only in spawn so you don't get that neat mechanic if you get stabbed later. Adding points to something just encourages people to get them for bragging rights usually, not because they always enjoy grinding them out.

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19 hours ago, Malal said:

Do what DtK does, block people from spectating and add gameme points

 

19 hours ago, Malal said:

You can make a human do the most mundane and menial work for a false sense of satisfaction and reward powered by imaginary points, hence why people copy funny posts to reupload on social media, I have seen people nail their fucking dick to a board just for reddit points.

 

 

Hmm, forgot about that. Definitely an option if it gets to that stage. People went nuts over the points on DtK as well, as far as inflating to get them.

 

4 hours ago, lce said:

Yea, cause DtK is doing soooooo well in terms of population with that system. In general it is going to be up the mappers to make it enjoyable for zombies and not having them sit in a cage for a 5 minute boss fight every round. On tryhard maps in general too, humans are the only ones that get any interesting items or if zombies get them, they are only in spawn so you don't get that neat mechanic if you get stabbed later. Adding points to something just encourages people to get them for bragging rights usually, not because they always enjoy grinding them out.

chrome_UtoQN8EUPB.png

 

DtK has many other issues that I won't discuss here (you can PM me if you want), but blocking spectate and having gameME points weren't it's downfall.

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21 hours ago, Malal said:

Do what DtK does, block people from spectating and add gameme points

 

DTK doesn't 'block' spectating, it's just that the server is shit and nothing is set up properly, which is why you should never use it as an example.

 

Mapeadores is a great example (regardless of it being P2W). It doesn't require hot garbage like TCU and doesn't have issues with players inflating to become zombies or avoiding becoming a zombie by joining spectator and having 20 retards circle jerking in spectate because they dislike a specific map.

 

6 hours ago, lce said:

Yea, cause DtK is doing soooooo well in terms of population with that system.

 

The system and way the server is set up have little to do with the population. There are far bigger issues with the community and the aus population is extremely small in CS:GO.

 

Meapadores also uses gameME and blocks spectate, yet they've always been the 2nd most popular Zombie Escape server. e74d6c96f3.png

 

The way servers are set up and whether or not they're garbage have little to no effect on the population. A great example is ZeddY's. 522a83a973.png

Edited by VIPBanana

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I still think this is a good idea, this way we can reduce the mother zombie status join in the spec, this is a cancer in gfl, I have seen all mother zombies joining the spec in icescape map , only one mother zombie and more than 20 people.

Also, there should be punishment for people who join spec  (or left the server) when they are mother zombies

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7 hours ago, lce said:

Yea, cause DtK is doing soooooo well in terms of population with that system. In general it is going to be up the mappers to make it enjoyable for zombies and not having them sit in a cage for a 5 minute boss fight every round. On tryhard maps in general too, humans are the only ones that get any interesting items or if zombies get them, they are only in spawn so you don't get that neat mechanic if you get stabbed later. Adding points to something just encourages people to get them for bragging rights usually, not because they always enjoy grinding them out.

chrome_UtoQN8EUPB.png

Are you inept?

1 hour ago, VIPBanana said:

DTK doesn't 'block' spectating, it's just that the server is shit and nothing is set up properly, which is why you should never use it as an example.

Did at one point.

 

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9 hours ago, vochihieu93 said:

I have seen all mother zombies joining the spec in icescape map , only one mother zombie and more than 20 people.

Icecap is classic spawn and only infects like 1-2 mother zombies, what you're seeing is just situations where they never infect more people. Not zombies going spectate.

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16 hours ago, VIPBanana said:

The system and way the server is set up have little to do with the population. There are far bigger issues with the community and the aus population is extremely small in CS:GO.

 

Meapadores also uses gameME and blocks spectate, yet they've always been the 2nd most popular Zombie Escape server. e74d6c96f3.png

 

The way servers are set up and whether or not they're garbage have little to no effect on the population. A great example is ZeddY's. 522a83a973.png

If you want more examples of servers dying due to points, look at steam gamers and syndicate gamers. Steam gamers was rank 3, then dropped to the current rank 39 (with lowest being 60 in the past month) since they reset their points. Syndicate reintroduced gameme and went from 20+ people a day to completely fucking dead.

15 hours ago, Malal said:

Are you inept?

I don't think you understand what that word means. Your example is of a dead af server who even the people defending it in this thread says it has issues. Not quite a pristine example there, especially since, as ninja chris pointed out, there are other servers with gameme that aren't dead as hell that you could have used as examples. In addition, if you want examples, there are plenty of servers that don't block spectating and are doing just fine. You can just look up the top servers on game tracker and try them out, since it appears that you don't get around much outside of a dead server (though I did see you were ebanned on pse cause you are such a great community member, so I guess you check some out to troll at least).

 

Either way, that was just a small point of my previous post, which is why I find it amusing 3 of you latched on to that and ignored the rest. I still believe it is mostly up to mappers to make the game fun for zombies. If it is a boring map for zombies, adding points to them isn't going to make people suddenly enjoy the zombie experience; it will just give them something they can grind towards for bragging rights (cause we need more ZE elitism for sure). If it is a boring as hell map, at least spectate allows dead players to enjoy watching the humans play (which I definitely find more entertaining than playing as a zombie on certain maps like dark souls, where zombies are confined to the same bridge for 5 minutes or forced to watch through a misty door while humans do multi-minute boss fights) as well as allowing dead people to lead from spec (as happens very often on tryhard maps when a leader gets infected, just so they can help win the level in order to advance the map).

Edited by lce
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9 hours ago, lce said:

I don't think you understand what that word means

Is English your first language?

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39 minutes ago, Malal said:

Is English your first language?

Yes, it evidently isn't yours though lmao. I explained in my previous post how that word much more accurately describes you, but since I didn't explicitly state I was explaining that to you, I guess your pea sized brain couldn't figure that out. Since you clearly can't use Google, I'll explain to you what inept means: lacking in skill; clumsy. Based on how your only example was a dead server with many problems and how you are perma ebanned on PSE (even getting completely shut down in your appeal by ken and told to appeal in 2 to 3 years), I was calling you inept, which most definitely describes you when it comes to ZE. Also, considering you started this autistic way of issuing personal jabs at each other in some odd mentality of yours which makes you think that it somehow wins you an argument rather than debating the points I put forward further reinforces my claim that you fail to understand what the word inept means. Since I actually want to add something to the topic with my posts instead of wasting my time solely being an annoying cunt like you, here goes.

 

I'd be perfectly fine with adding the option to increase the chance of mother zombie priority (though I believe even if you choose this option, you shouldn't get it 2 rounds in a row, the same way that you can't get mother z 2 rounds in a row right now). Some maps are fun to be mother zombie on (diddle finale is an example of a map I personally like being mother z on, since I enjoy the selection of zombie items available in the shop), and you don't typically see people that grab those items going into spec when they have a z item. With the option for people that enjoy being mother zombie can be such, leading to fewer spectators from the zombie side. Some maps, however, are just straight up boring to be zombie on, and that is a problem with the game mode and the map, not the lack of points or ability to spectate.

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