Disabling spec to get back on Gametracker

[DUSTY 170 / 4,093]

u guys are funny

[Vauff 965 / 16,996]

This has been stated multiple times on Discord now, but I figure it needs to be said on forums as well.

 

We didn't disable spectate just because GT deranked the server, spectating has been an issue on the server for a while now and it's only been slowly getting worse over the past 2 years. The derank has just finally kicked us into action of finally dealing with it. With how in-demand the server is while being full a good chunk of the time, it doesn't make sense to allow people to spectate when those people could instead be replaced by the people wanting to get in the server and actually play. Not to mention, there are people who go into spec and treat the server more of a chatroom while just waiting for a tryhard map they want to play come on, or who just don't want to play zombie.

 

And if spectate is truly needed for something, admins are now able to move people to spectate with proper reason if needed (e.g. zombie wants to keep leading humans).

 

If this had been purely about the GT derank, we wouldn't have cared, at best we get a minimal amount of players joining from there.

[DUSTY 170 / 4,093]

Hmmm what has happened over the past few years that would cause people to not wanna play as zombie? Hopefully I can tab back in time for a new round now.

[Ryannn 103 / 4,213]

U gotta be joking with this spec bs. I was not a fan of removing the donator perk of being able to sit in spec for long periods of time. Then yesterday I heard something about not being allowed to have more than 3 specs at a time. If they aren't afk, whats the issue then? This to me seems completely pointless and can only hurt more than it helps. What if the server isn't full? What if someone wants to spectate someone with an item to learn it? What if someone wants to lead from spec and not as zm? What if there are no admins to move someone to spec before you say that is the solution, because when first discussing this with Vauff he told me one reason for the auto kick was not having admins online enough to kick specs manually. These aren't even all of the reasons someone would want to go to spec besides being AFK. I suggest at least switching it back to the 300s afk kicker in spec. Anything else is completely useless because if they aren't getting afk kicked in spec, they aren't afk so whats the issue?

Edited August 4, 2019 by Elemental

[Doogla 34 / 2,011]

15 minutes ago, Elemental said:

U gotta be joking with this spec bs. I was not a fan of removing the donator perk of being able to sit in spec for long periods of time. Then yesterday I heard something about not being allowed to have more than 3 specs at a time. If they aren't afk, whats the issue then? This to me seems completely pointless and can only hurt more than it helps. What if the server isn't full? What if someone wants to spectate someone with an item to learn it? What if someone wants to lead from spec and not as zm? What if there are no admins to move someone to spec before you say that is the solution, because when first discussing this with Vauff he told me one reason for the auto kick was not having admins online enough to kick specs manually. These aren't even all of the reasons someone would want to go to spec besides being AFK. I suggest at least switching it back to the 300s afk kicker in spec. Anything else is completely useless because if they aren't getting afk kicked in spec, they aren't afk so whats the issue?

The only way i was able to learn maps and how certain things were done was via spectate mode. I'm not a fan of the change. i think that if you are spectating for more than 300 seconds even a cvip you should be kicked. i dont see why that isnt good enough.

[reduct 600 / 7,862]

41 minutes ago, Elemental said:

I was not a fan of removing the donator perk of being able to sit in spec for long periods of time.

 

This was never a donator perk to begin with.

[Ryannn 103 / 4,213]

1 minute ago, reduct said:

This was never a donator perk to begin with.

What was it then, a glitch? Because it was one of the reasons I donated.

[Snowy 837 / 11,431]

9 minutes ago, Elemental said:

What was it then, a glitch? Because it was one of the reasons I donated.

 

Yes/Kinda. Donating to a server doesn't mean you can sit in spec and not get kicked, that would be one hell of a perk that can be abused. 

It was an oversight with the AfkManager plugin and we overlooked it for years but recent events made us act on it. (Witnessing 10+ specs frequently, GT de-rank, etc)

Edited August 4, 2019 by xSnowyAngel

[Ryannn 103 / 4,213]

Just now, xSnowyAngel said:

 

Yes/Kinda. Donating to a server doesn't mean you can sit in spec and not get kicked, that would be one hell of a perk that can be abused. 

It was an oversight with the AfkManager plugin and we overlooked it for years but recent events of made us act on it. (Witnessing 10+ specs frequently, GT de-rank, etc)

Fair enough. Still, limiting specs if you know they aren't afk is pointless.

[Snowy 837 / 11,431]

Bare in mind, this is new. Feedbacks are welcomed. But if you are straight up being toxic, your feedback will be ignored/removed

[DUSTY 170 / 4,093]

13 minutes ago, xSnowyAngel said:

Bare in mind, this is new. Feedbacks are welcomed. But if you are straight up being toxic, your feedback will be ignored/removed

 

Instead of forcing people to play give them a reason to.

[reduct 600 / 7,862]

2 minutes ago, gkuo88 said:

This shit's nothing more than the consequences of bhop in the long run, and at this rate there ain't really any going back.

 

No.

[DUSTY 170 / 4,093]

30 minutes ago, gkuo88 said:

Dusty, your theory of "people are going to spectate cause they secretly want to be a zombie, but don't want to be caught inflating" is fucking retarded. Stop trying to connect bad shit happening to your own agenda.

 

Your agenda seems to be to put an agenda on my agenda. My theory is people go to spectate because they don't want to play as a zombie.

Edited August 4, 2019 by DUSTY

[Ryannn 103 / 4,213]

Lets not let this thread turn this thread into another who can write the longest essay competition 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Elemental

[ChicagoBen 86 / 3,231]

wtf is gkuo smoking? I don't care if gkuo made a book about this, blaming this on bhopping is beyond stupid.

 

I think the problem of specing is the culture around it.

 

1 Problem with the culture is specing players don't wanna play as the other half in zombie escape, its in the name of the mode but people don't wanna play as them, that is a fatal problem. Being a zombie to them is a chore to many "experienced" players and will refuse to play as this other half, and this makes the mod unbalanced. For as long as this culture exists, when you force these spectators to play, which I will say, calling it now, 100% seeing that create a more toxic environment (even if it might be necessary management call). Part of this is peoples view on zombies, people focus so much on winning maps as ct's that they view being a zombie as a "round over for me" and don't try to play the game at that point, maybe if they find more joy in being a spoil sport as a zombie (which so many players get mad about zombies "trying" which is again part of the culture problem), would less people focus on winning as a ct when they are infected. When you're infected the goal is to win as zombies now! 

 

A second problem with the culture is many of these ze maps that are big on objectives (boss fights laser etc) consider and design around the human's engagements, but never the zombies. How many boss fights shove zombies in a small ass corner to do nothing for 3 minutes. how many segments of maps are extremely boring or 1 dimensional in the gameplay for zombies? These are the type of maps gfl plays a ton of (and most ze servers in general). Some mappers give little incentive to want to play as zombies, and adds on to people wanting to spectate. Adds to the desire to not play as a zombie.

 

Another problem (which is more my opinion so brace yourself) is how this culture ultimate's is in leaders leading humans via spectating . Think about that. Leaders and pillars in this community would rather focus on the ct part of the game and refuse to play as a zombie just because they are infected. This is also completely unfair in a "competitive" environment as in spectate you get the unnatural advantage of being able to see the whole map freely without any consequences such as item spawns and location, locations of zombies,  without the focus of your own gameplay.  You don't see people wanting to spectate for zombies and if they did odds are they would get yelled at for trying to lose them the map. 

 

Am I saying ban leading via spec? NO! Just stating that it's so commonly accepted without thinking about how these things add up to 10 players dying to bosses on these objective based maps that these 10 players dealing with little game design givin to make zombies being fun (its not even about zombies being good, just more involvement), not believing spoil sport matters, and seeing others major players doing the same, that they would rather sit in spectate for 5 minutes doing nothing instead of helping the zombie ratio out as it rightfully should. Because to them it's boring and what matters is being a CT and not a zombie trying to have fun.

 

Just a little rant on how it got so bad. Take it as you will. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by ChicagoBen
horrible grammar and trying for more ambiguous writing here

[koala 102 / 3,719]

if possible, why not just limit the amount of specs, or like it was back then, reinforce the rule where admins used to kick specs all the time? wasn't that hard to do back then, shouldn't be too hard now

[Ryannn 103 / 4,213]

42 minutes ago, koala said:

if possible, why not just limit the amount of specs, or like it was back then, reinforce the rule where admins used to kick specs all the time? wasn't that hard to do back then, shouldn't be too hard now

Limiting specs in a way just keeps the problem the same as it is now, just with a threshold of x amount of specs. Frequent kicks in my eyes would be the most viable solution as long as admin activity is as high as it should be.

[asdfasdfxcv 82 / 2,298]

Can we enable spec so I can learn white knight in Minas admin 

[Ryannn 103 / 4,213]

How many people fully read this lol ^^

[koala 102 / 3,719]

26 minutes ago, Elemental said:

Limiting specs in a way just keeps the problem the same as it is now, just with a threshold of x amount of specs. Frequent kicks in my eyes would be the most viable solution as long as admin activity is as high as it should be.

i dunno, back when i was starting out as admin, we frequently kicked specs and later on it died down, so im not sure how it is today, but it'd definitely be better than disabling specs imo