Shared CD for Surf Maps

[Ixion 60 / 3,077]

As someone that plays a good amount during EU / Asian hours (1-6 AM PST), I've noticed that surf maps are often played over and over multiple maps in a row.

Look, I have nothing against the surf maps, they're decently fun imo but it can really start to get boring when I'm marathoning through several of the surf maps all at once; almost every single day of the week.
That's why I'm thinking that if the surf maps had some sort of shared CD, we could avoid this problem of blowing through every single surf map all at once.

Let's take a look at what I'm proposing:
 

As far as I know, all surf maps currently have a cooldown of 65 maps and there are 6 surf maps in total (danger, dark_fantasy(?), facility, gypt, sahok, and vortex). Dark_fantasy is honestly the dark horse of the bunch, and I'll ignore it for now for simplicity's sake.

I'm saying we should put all the surf maps on a shared 13 (this can be adjusted) map cooldown. This means that there will at least be 13 maps played between each surf map.

How did I get 13? Simple, 65 cd / 5 maps = 13. This means that it's possible to play every single surf map within the cooldown of a single surf map under the current system. I think this will allow there to be more diversity in the maps played throughout the day.

Here are a few pros and cons I see with my idea.

Pros:

• Less surf marathoning. Surf maps are the most prone to being marathoned imo, compared to even Luff maps or FF maps
• More map diversity. As mentioned above, I feel like surf maps are always marathoned (2+). Forcing them to be separate will allow other less played maps to be chosen
• More beginner / noob friendly. I've seen people that can't surf have a miserable time waiting through 4 straight surf maps. Other maps inbetween will allow them to play more.
  • If you're going to say that they should just 'git gud' I feel like I disagree. Fundamentally, they're joining a ZE server.
  • If noobs can't surf, they legitimately cannot play at all, either as a zombie or a human. Now compare this to another movement skill, bhopping. Noobs don't need to know how to bhop to still enjoy the game; sure it might provide an advantage but it's not stopping them entirely. There is also few if any maps centered entirely around the ability to bhop (NY_marathon comes to mind but it's not required since there are long triggers).
• 13 maps is not too long to never play surf maps ever again and not too short to play all 6 in one sitting

Cons:

• No marathoning. I understand that marathoning through a series of maps can often be exciting, especially when teams are on a roll. This would completely prevent that for surf maps.
• In theory, this system allows surf_danger (or anything else) to be played every 13 maps.
  • Yes; but I feel like this is a simple fix. Just prevent the same surf map from being chosen until at least 2/3 other ones have been played.

 

This idea comes from the similar standpoint taken on Wanderer's Palace, which does have a shared cd. Playing v2, v4, v5, v6 back to back sounds tiring (not necessarily boring) even for the most dedicated players. The system I'm proposing now is not necessarily a 1:1 carbon copy, since surf maps are not as similar to each other as some of the FF maps are, but I feel like the motivations are still the same.

 

What are your thoughts?

EDIT: Added a poll. The shared map cd is better explained by Vauff's response below.

Edited September 4, 2020 by Ixion

[Beter Griffin 69 / 3,489]

Delete surf dark fantasy

[Vauff 965 / 17,001]

This proposal seems overly complex, if anything we would just do the same thing we do with Luffaren and FF maps, where all maps in the group go on a 4 map cooldown (if not already above 4) whenever you play one of them, independent of the maps 65 (or higher) normal cooldowns.

 

I'm fine with implementing this if people want it though, maybe add a poll?

Edited September 4, 2020 by Vauff

[Some ze guy 16 / 1,038]

Imo just leave it how it is. Surf is casual. Its nothing crazy. Dont know how to surf? Join a dedicated surf only server, it's that simple. Surf marathons have been a casual occurrence since years ago and still cause no harm because there not try hard. Just leave them alone. 

[OLIVKA 146 / 3,528]

It seems to me that it is unwise to introduce such a restriction for maps that have approximately the same gameplay or main idea. For example, we have the group of maps with "LOTR" tag or "Boatescape" tag so they can fall under such parameters too. Thats why i would like to ask the question, is it really necessary to enter cooldown for group of similar (casual) maps just because they have the same name and gameplay?

Edited September 4, 2020 by OLIVKA

[Necrochill 14 / 2,434]

This will need a poll for it can be heavily debated between EU and NA (hours) groups. I would be in favor of a short cooldown because i tend to play late EU hours as well, and yeah Surf maps tend to play longer during EU times and can easily eat up several hours

edit: oh there is a poll my dumbass reads in braille 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Necrochill

[Necrochill 14 / 2,434]

5 hours ago, OLIVKA said:

It seems to me that it is unwise to introduce such a restriction for maps that have approximately the same gameplay or main idea. For example, we have the group of maps with "LOTR" tag or "Boatescape" tag so they can fall under such parameters too. Thats why i would like to ask the question, is it really necessary to enter cooldown for group of similar (casual) maps just because they have the same name and gameplay?

I would argue that there is a difference between these two (casual) groups. The only LOTR maps that go on [casual] marathons are Moria, Helms, and Mount Doom, and two of them are common 1 and dones. Surf maps on the other hand can be played for example 10x  -- win or loss -- and then again repeated with the following surf map in rotation. LOTR doesnt really compare to surf maps, i would say platformer and its atmosphere compares more to surf maps but there is only 1 platformer 

[FrenZy 614 / 8,849]

I for one appreciated playing 4 surf maps in a row. Then again, I'm slightly biased. 

[Loccstan 62 / 3,340]

On 9/4/2020 at 5:47 AM, Beter Griffin said:

Delete surf dark fantasy

 

Stripper fix dark fantasy so the secret level is shorter and has more surf. 🧠

[andrewzong 24 / 1,659]

time to give not only surf, but:

all LOTR maps need cooldown

all minecraft maps need cooldown

all maps with boats map need cooldown

all maps with helicopter need cooldown

all maps with truck need cooldown

all blackmesa maps need cooldown

all maps before 2015 "boomer maps" need cooldown

let's go boys

 

 

btw: also delete surf dark fantasy because it is trash ass

Edited September 16, 2020 by andrewzong

[TF2 Pencil 11 / 1,062]

I do agree with this idea. I don't think we should end up playing the same kind of map all over again like play 2 or more surf maps in a row.