Weapon Rework Feedback Thread

[Paul. 44 / 1,445]

Hello Rotation, 

 

As you should be aware for the past 2 weeks we have had an addon on the server called TTT Weapon Rework (tttwr).

 

This is a fairly comprehensive update to the base ttt weapon handling system and the full details can be found on the discord announcement post here: TTTWR ANNOUNCEMENT

or on the addons github page here: tttwr github.

 

The tl:dr version is that aims to balance the default ttt weapons into classes and brings in some extra css guns like the spas-12. 

 

In general damage and single shot accuracy was increased and spray accuracy decreased across the board with the notable exception of the huge.

 

One of the most polarising changes was to the Deagle/Revolver, there was a headshot damage cooldown added after firing a shot, if you fire another immediately it only does base damage to the head. After ~1.3 seconds it does full headshot damage again.

 

I have added a few polls to this topic, please vote and discuss here.

 

We have several options going forward which are included in the 3rd poll:

 

• Bring back the rework as it has been for the last 2 weeks

 

• Bring back the rework with balance changes based on feedback here

 

• Don't bring back the rework but include a few of the changes (i.e. the sniper laser)

 

• Don't bring back the rework at all.

 

I look forward to reading all of your comments and discussions!

 

[CobalshMcGee 44 / 1,372]

Shotguns are kinda wack and no one-shot deagle headshot is tear-inducing, but otherwise liked the changes. I'm sure others have more inspired responses, though

[Paul. 44 / 1,445]

1 minute ago, CobalshMcGee said:

no one-shot deagle headshot is tear-inducing

 

Deagle still does full damage on first shot, and full damage if you space shots out. You only lose 1-shot headshot if you rapid fire.

 

Spoiler

the deagle and revolver have the same base damage, headshot damage, accuracy, and rate of fire:
33 dmg, 50 - 150 hs dmg, 150 rpm

their accuracy and headshot damage both significantly drop down after shooting, but the revolver recovers slightly faster:
deagle: 50 hs dmg until 0.83 secs, 100 hs dmg at 1.33 secs, 150 hs dmg after 1.5 secs
revolver: 50 hs dmg until 0.67 secs, 100 hs dmg at 1.17 sec, 150 hs dmg after 1.33 secs

the deagle has an 8-round clip, 0.7-sec deploy time, and 2.5-sec reload time

 

[JuicyBenny 91 / 0]

Ready for a lengthy one ok heres the lengthy one

I'll start easy with secondaries cause they will be a little quicker

Deagle - Completely fucked, in no way shape or form should you ever punish someone for hitting their shots. period. if i hit someone in the head which is rare with this shitreg. then i get lucky enough to hit another person in head right after and it doesent kill them. and leaves me dead. im not that good at the game. k. so to punish people who are and arent with this. and baby the fuck outta people for getting hit is beyond me. The accuracy is not great either

Glock - meh, its not bad but its not as good as it was before the update. it actually felt better than when i got banned but then this update made it...gross... not accurate at all but thats a running theme with these guns.

Revolver - LOL "better than the deagle" is a joke. accuracy is way worse than the deagle, damage output is way worse. it doesent even one hit kill in the head every time. it can leave someone 95-98(rare instance).

Pistol - its the pistol.......

Dualies - Sometimes its good, sometimes you wonder what the fuck your gun is even shooting towards? like is it shooting where im aiming? no? it went off to the side? k. its so fucking hit or miss its insane.

p228 - its like you took the fucking pistol and said lets make it even harder to figure out. accuracy. terrible, damage output. terrible, ADS awful...

Five Seven - this one isent bad. but it isent good. i think i like the five seven. but im not totally sure with this one. i think its accuracy is a bit shaky but normally reliable.

BIG BOY TIME

ASSAULT RIFLES

M16 - Faster is ok? weirdly enough i liked the Tap shooting and even before that the slow auto. the speed is cool but again theres an accuracy problem but its a unique one... it hits when it shouldent. theres times i completely whiff all of my shots cause of the speed but i still hit a head. and its only the head. i aim at it sure but telling me a single bullet in that fray of whiffs just randomly went to the head? even when the bullets just didnt go that way? its weird. idk how to explain it. you'd think this is a none problem but its not. cause then next time you use it youll expect that and it turns into shit. overall its a fucky gun now

AUG - At first i thought it was only good close range but no this weapon is actually viable zoomed in. and at hipfire. but its kinda meh overall

Galil - its better than before the update when you made it one tap and shitty. but even then its not the default galil which was a way better gun. wasent op in anyway just pretty good when paired with someone who knows how to aim.

FAMAS - god fucking damit. i come back and you fucked the famas completely where its unusable. this gun update hasent helped it. you turned the famas from one of the better weapons into one of the worst weapons.

HK - REMOVE THIS IMMEDIATELY. without a shadow of a doubt the most broke and fucking garbage assault rifle. it glitches constantly, you cant quick swap, the sights are OFF FUCKING CENTER, the damage is inconsistent and the accuracy is ass. idk how a weapon can be as fucked as this.

SG / Kreig - i cant tell a difference between the two if there is any? but its trash either way. the spray is fucking insane. it shouldent be whizzing all around the one area im aiming at with 0 control at all.

SUB-MACHINE GUNS

MAC10 - Weirdly enough the mac 10 was made better than before. its been really good for me. i wish the damage was like old damage but the accuracy close range makes up for it.

mp5 - if it was old mp5 it be fucking pog, sadly its not and it shows. its very weak. its fast but weak and accuracy is weird. it reminds me of the famas with its accuracy.

SMG/MP7 - REALLY GOOD honestly this is probably the best gun out of all of them. aiming down sights dont matter cause you are less accurate doing that in fact. but hipfire is enough when hits register. fast and strong for an smg and with that ammo count. prob the go to gun.

UMP - Sometimes good. Sometimes bad. it depends. accuracy is a bit funky but damage aint bad.

SHOTGUNS/HEAVY

PUMP/M3 - one of the worst shotguns... if you miss your first shot. or hey if you hit but the game decides you didnt. your fucked unless you get lucky. damage is poor. range is poor. draw is poor. everything is poor. unless its that first shot.

XM - fast shotty good. damage not good. accuracy not good. i feel if im spamming it into someones back there should be 0 reason for me to be doing 2hp worth of damage per hit.

Spaz - man.... i was excited for the spaz. then i found out its just... its good sometimes... but the fact it does more damage to people who have armor than people who dont. and the fact its so inconsistent with accuracy it just sucks...

Huge -  stupid shit like this. spam it at the floor drag it up you have a laser cool. but the damage is ass... its a fucking light machine gun. maybe heavy machine gun why is the damage that bad. if i spam it into someones head it shouldent take half the clip to kill them.

SNIPERS (NEW SIDE NOTE. ALL ACCURACY WITH SNIPERS LITERALLY GO BACK TO DEFAULT IF YOU CROUCH SO LOTS OF ACCURACY COMPLAINTS)

Scout - i havent seen much difference with the scout. the only complaints is hitreg related

G3 - you fucking ruined it by making it not silenced. its damage is fucking piss poor bullshit and its accuracy doesent make sense for a fucking sniper rifle.

ssg 550 - i could say the same for this one. a headshot with snipers like this should not do 15-25 damage. im sorry thats absurd. the accuracy on this one is even worse than the fucking g3 aswell.

T/D WEAPONS

Mossberg - a laser accurate shotty that.... isent accurate...short range.. its spread for some reason is so late its like a sniper just a few feet from me but if your off in the fucking mountains it hits all of the spread at once on you.

prototype tmp - its like the ump prototype. its nothing special.

ak47 - ass.... straight ass now.. theres 0 point to use it

sm4 - also ass... like you fucked the two main guns... kinda cringe

awp - no difference

silenced pistol - unfortunately i haven't used it myself. theres never a time i can see myself using it. but from what ive seen ive found a few points. its i guess kinda good, its too silent for some people where you literally cant hear it right next to you. it breaks damage indicators so you cant actually see your taking damage unless you look at your health. just to name a few, people say its op but i cant say much else cause i haven't used it

OVERVIEW

this has been the worst experience with a new weapons thing ive ever fucking been apart of. m9k was so much smoother and that shit broke everything for a week. This aim down sights to improve accuracy thing never held up.
i even asked people during this proceeding if they aimed down sights for their nutty shots and all of em said no. i never had a person say yes. the only people who said yes were people who were complaining their hits were fucking shit aiming down sights.

accuracy was a big thing. guns weren't shooting where we shot. idk how you expect us to compensate for our shot curving when it should be a straight shot.
So you have a gun update that gives accuracy a fucking big overhaul during a time where our hitreg is so fucking bad i honest to god think someone fucked with it intentionally thats how bad it is(not actually but thats my mental limit). AND this update changes damage output depending on range, time etc. range effects the damage on my SNIPER?!?! sure. cool. rad. stupid.

time? yes time. hence with the deagle if i shoot someone in the head and kill em and whip and shoot someone behind me in the head it wont kill them. even if it was in the head. theres a damage drop off..... you hurt good players who play the game and you hurt bad players who get lucky. you hurt everyone with this type of update.

In an attempt to balance the guns they were all made shitty and i understood why people would ruin the whole game for everyone by just bombarding with explosives.

I gave this thing a chance cause im always scared of and hate change. so i loved checking the weapons out. but when most of my day is spent wondering how the fuck my shots are doing what they are doing rather than enjoying the fun of the game. it ruins everything.

further more i woulda liked to have looked into figuring out our hitreg issues more than overhaul all our weapons and now we dont know. is it these weapons? is it out tickrate? is it specdm? we add shit like this it just blocks up the main biggest issue at the moment.

I cant get behind any of it.
explosions are also wacky but meh.
this trial phase leaves me with the conclusion that i hate this gun update. i think its awful. i think it should go. i prefer the default. id like to look in on adding some of the suggested m9k things from the discord that was approved. that be neat. but the main focus would be hitreg and figuring out whats effecting that.

POSITIVE TAKE AWAY'S? : i think the laser sight is funny... thats it. its a little jaring aiming down sights and seeing the red on a first person perspective but its still funny.
i think the hitting the head through the arms thing is dope. I think the flare gun thing is cool, i think the newton launcher is also great.

Non gun takes?: I think the crouching is unbelievably broken and is a fucking nightmare to deal with. i think the ammo counts are weird but i can get used to it. there prob something else but literally the rest of this was copy pasted except for this and the positive take away's so. bare with me. 

[BluHoser 77 / 2,974]

gun updat e: verry gud

my namma jef f

[AlphaOwl 307 / 7,583]

From this update, I really enjoyed a lot of the quality of life updates in comparison to the actual gun changes, but I'll get into that later as to why. Shotgun hull traces and fixed pattern makes them more accurate instead of a random spray that can randomly hit someone, whereas in the past you can hit some shots you were never even aiming at. Decoys (when they worked) I think were cool having multiple of them, and the flare gun now serves with more purpose to cause damage and is more effective as well. Don't get me started on the Newton, by far probably the best change ever added within the pack as it adds more versatility in the firing options and makes it much more fun. Picking up health station as D and dropping ammo from your reserves are also pretty great as well. Randomized credit rewards are kind of natural to the way TTT is as well, so I think the system is fine. And dying shot, although a bit RDMy, is pretty funny and helpful for getting the last laugh on killers, or other players by accidental RDM chains. 🙂

 

Magnetotrans should honestly be turned off, I see most people actually confused by it and the intent of propblocking is already strong enough whilst vision is blocked. People naturally do it in comparison to the true purpose of this weapon pack suited for parties of 8. No reason why we should change map knife stats if we have the diamond sword, we should honestly keep it the same way it is. I don't actually know how much "no lucky headshots" affects the state of hitreg, but I feel like it does. The sniper rifle laser dots and tracers allow me to spot out snipers easier, but I do feel like it leads to more KOS off of location in a way. Crouch offset is also broken since it allows certain spots on maps to be able to see through the props/clips that aren't usually like that, and with our crouch jump fix it doesn't really help that crouch jumps don't feel as accurate as they are.

 

As for the guns... honestly I have no clue if I want to get into specifics or not. Actually, might as well express what I feel are the strengths and what not. I have good days with the guns, and bad days with them too. If I were to request anything specifically, it's to balance the guns in retrospective to being effective and paced around larger party TTT. I think one flaw that this weapon rework has is that most of the changes were set around small privatized TTT games. And not to toot our horn, but our server hasn't had to focus on being "small party TTT" for a while. So mostly I'm looking forwards to what people have to offer in feedback about to balance these guns in this forum or the discord, and I'll share the suggestions here too. The ammo simplification is alright, and don't mind the overstocked clips.

 

About the deagle rebalance, I think maybe the recovery speed should be 1 second or so. I find myself waiting a lot of time for it to reset to headshot potential, but honestly this gamemode isn't like CS, it's more of an arcade shooter. Which brings me to my next point: the recoil. I'd like to see if we can make it easier for gun spray recoils, since a lot of people just try to play TTT very chill but instead they have to also commit to learning sprays, which I mean is fine, but very taxing and frustrating if you don't get it right as a casual player, and you feel annoyed that the game decided to cheat you out of your bullets that were supposed to hit. I think lucky headshots, although stating it shouldn't do "extra damage" if you weren't aiming for the head, should be turned off or removed since I feel like the weapon rework did not account for the differing ping across many players, and so shots can feel cheated and blamed on shitreg. 

 

All in all, I feel that I've started to warm up to the gun rework, but would like things to be rebalanced to be more apt for large party TTT. Thus I am open to the idea of looking at other ways to balance the guns rather than getting rid of the system as I originally supported. Our server isn't definitely vanilla, which the weapons base recommends as it adds spice to the gameplay, so we have to take those considerations when implementing new systems. I think if there's a major concern I've seen lately, it's the hitreg, and I believe that the weapons rework does tamper with this a little bit. As Paul has mentioned, we are gonna trial the server without the changes (and SpecDM) for a couple weeks or so, so we may or may not see improvements to that quality of gameplay. So hopefully let's get back to hitting our shots, and pulling off insane plays.

[Kettermelon 136 / 4,927]

deagle needs to be reverted, its draw time may say .7 seconds but I guarantee that it takes a lot longer until I can actually fire the gun, makes it shit as a secondary since I cant rely on it in close combat or when im out of ammo.

 

Sm4 needs a firerate increase and AK needs its damage back, and Famas needs both.

 

I do like the new Galil, Krieg, SMG, and mac 10, but maybe a slightly shorter reload time for the SMG like .1-.2 seconds shorter, idk it just feels abnormally long.

 

Shotties I absolutely love, they are so much more consistent with one taps and spas op

 

the new pistols I havent actually tried yet so idk bout those but the revolver reload animation should use a speed loader, manual reload is stinky (qol)

 

SG should go back to normal, g3 can stay because it honestly fits its style, but the SG just doesnt work with its new stats and we need another decent sniper so we have more variety (and cuz I can never find a scout consistently enough, and yes loadouts but theyve been iffy lately) 

 

everything else is good, may update later

[DoctorMoon 42 / 653]

Overall, I think the weapons rework has seen mixed results.

 

On the server, we have a whole mix of players in terms of skill levels. I think it's fairer for the lower skilled players when certain weapons are nerfed (i.e. the Deagle). Prior to the balance. some of the players that are on the skilled end of the spectrum could spam the Deagle and go on headshot sprees, back to back. Now, with the deagle punishing spam, I feel like it's taken a more laid back role as a support weapon. It still rewards accuracy, but now it gives others a fair fighting chance back.

 

The sniper changes were fairly successful I'd say. Despite some people disliking the G3 for leaving targets at 1 hp with a headshot, the whole point of that being integrated is because the G3 is a semiauto, with a decent firerate for a follow up shot. Prior to the rework, all the snipers would give you a one hit headshot, which meant that the autosnipers (G3, SG), had more advantages, once again, for those of a higher skill cap. The SG, while having a fairly high fire rate for a sniper, is balanced out by having the lowest damage output of all the sniper rifles. 

 

There's too many guns to get into, but I think the bottom line is, that some guns still need more adjustment. The reason why there's so many guns for the gamemode is because certain guns give certain advantages in certain situations. Every gun performs differently at different ranges. TTK at given ranges could be analyzed and adjusted to create as much as balance as possible. Some assault rifles need to have their spray patterns fixed, such as the famas, as its low rate of fire and high spread seems to make it an inviable weapon. 

[Reverb 273 / 4,902]

Im not gonna write an entire essay on feedback but here is my general take. Huge is very bad now. m16 very epic I love new m16 . Sniper Laser neat, Idk why there are 3 different snipers tho, Theres the Scout which is good, Then the other 2 ones are just kind of the same quick shooters and not much damage however one of those snipers should be silent like they were originally. In conclusion a few more tests on weapon balancing and I would say this change adds a much needed refresher to ttt that I personally like.  edit to remove me saying shotgun is broken as well as saying the huge is horrible both before and after patch, Please make be a little more then a tickle cannon. 

Edited July 8, 2021 by Reverb