If God created the universe then who created god?

[Kubnair 1,158 / 17,225]

Question for people who believe God created the universe.

 

If God created the universe, who created god?

 

Question for people who believe in non religious theories of the creation of the universe.

 

If the universe was nothing at first how did it become something?

 

Time may be infinite but even infinite has a start so my basic question is how was the universe created and however it was created what existed before it?

 

This question has been running through my head for the past week so I thought I'd make a post my personal belief  (as I'm an atheist) is God was created by humans and I still don't know what existed before the universe and how that which existed before the universe came to be. It still fucks up my mind when I think about it.

 

 

 

I'm gonna tag @Benroy since he's very religious I wanna know what he thinks and I'm going to tag @Joshy you may not be interested in this topic but I love your inputs on topics you choose to answer and I would love to see your thoughts on this.

 

 

Please write your thoughts below I would love to see them.

 

I find this quote to be very true

 

Edited September 24, 2017 by Kubnair

[Aquaticfilly0 394 / 7,993]

Scientists have proven for the energy of the atom making it explode. If god existed, I don't think he would have cancer, murder, all of that. He would stop the hurricanes, tornado's. I'm an athiest, and i don't believe someone is watching us. If I have one life, ima do shit now, not in the 'afterlife'. That's what I believe. If God is all powerful, but not good, why do people look to him? you do you, and I accept your religion. But answer me when i saw, 'have you ever prayed to god, and he responded?'

[Eli 708 / 11,596]

The past 3 years has been a large struggle for me religiously. While I don't believe anymore, I don't hate on those who do. There are many things that Turned me off to religion, One was the feeling of being controlled. In my church I went to, it was almost Cult like. we were basically FORCED to recruit people to come every weekend and were met with disappointment if we didn't. Another thing that was huge to me around 8th grade was putting history into perspective. God and specifically Jesus was big during and after the Roman empire, and to be 100% peoples lives FUCKING SUCKED back then, So people started to make a way out, they started to picture something so perfect compared to their horrible death filled life. There were videos that were shown to me during my time at church where it showed many of the theories behind when and how god created the earth. Some of them explained how the whole universe came to be, others were just like "you just have to put faith and believe" and I was not about that life. I need to know 100% that i'm not wasting my life following some fictional person so I can forget about my shitty life on earth.

Edited September 24, 2017 by Eli

[Aquaticfilly0 394 / 7,993]

search 'Cyanide and happiness Science Class'

[kneegerrlover123 389 / 8,946]

A lot of religious people claim that "God existed since the dawn of time and will always exist, he doesn't have a father nor a son and he's the creator of all"

It means God is a useless entity that exists but doesn't have a purpose

Edited September 24, 2017 by Syntax

[Joshy 4,364 / 44,945]

It's a confusing topic for me as well.  I think my perspective surprises people because I am very interested in academia and science, technology, engineering and mathematics (STEM), but if I were to describe my perspective, then some concepts from Flatland may help.  I'll admit it's difficult for me to put into words and I am constantly changing my mind on parts of it, but i'll try my best and I apologize for any confusions or offensive perspectives.

 

I grew up in a family of very mixed in religion, and my parents chose not to (intentionally) swing my siblings and I towards any direction.  I mostly grew up feeling like there was no such thing as God; however, and to my own surprise too: Science has sparked and reinforced my belief of some deity, and so I am swimming deep into the gray of agnostic beliefs.

 

I constantly see the "battle" of science versus religion, and I feel both truthfully has some aspect of faith.  Those who argue against religion often claim science can be proven, but I often see a pitfall when we begin using axioms.  Everything proven has some set of axioms or fundamental knowledge we assume or stipulate to be true, and when you begin looking at studies to their fundamentals, then we begin to discuss quantum mechanics.  This isn't just some movie talk or voodoo magic you'll see in Interestellar, but we truthfully see what we call "quantum effects" in science, and even in fields such as electrical engineering where transistors have become so small, that our classical understanding is no longer valid.  Some of the more well-known effects are  things like electrons or photons being in multiple places simultaneously, and exhibiting a particle and wave duality (reference).  Electrons and photons can "tunnel" (it's like walking through a wall or a teleport) and we use it in instruments such as Scanning Tunneling Microscopes (STM), but this is like saying it's possible to put our hand on the table and fall right through it (there is no 0% or 100% that it would or wouldn't).  Did you know we're mostly made up of nothing?   We're made up of many atoms, and the electrons are far from the nucleus with finite gaps or barriers (reference).  You can try some basic experiments on your own at home such as the famous Double-slit Experiment.  Now, you can certainly say "Seeing the results of these experiments PROVE these concepts to be true," but how can we deny this victory to people who say "Our existence is the result of God and PROVES these concepts (in the Bible) to be true."  Both require faith, and there are just so many things that make you wonder such as everyday life where ±1 or 2 degrees is a fever or hypothermia, and the person can die; also the "perfect" distance between the sun and the earth, and we're composed of elements coming from stars although reading Steven Hawking's Brief History of Time might make you wonder if it was statistically inevitable, and maybe we could only ask these questions because of our own existence.

 

Now, things like evolution have strong evidence suggesting it to be true, and I firmly believe in evolution despite its clash with religious literature such as The Bible; however: I personally look at this literature as a set of metaphors or stories with a message, and not all the stories as a piece of history.  I am most familiar with Christianity and will use examples with the stories I know better.  So:  The world began with Adam and Eve instead of some apes evolving into humans, right?  Why does evolution have to invalidate that story or piece of history?  The literature has also evolved over many versions and it's like a large game of telephone to me.  Why can't we say, that God created man in his own image, but man is not perfect like God...  man is a like a plant and has to grow into the beautiful and perfect image of God (PC: Gender pronouns and deity used for discussion and are not an assumption.)  Let there be light?  How do we know the big bang wasn't this event stimulated by God?  Why would God allow wars and murders?  Haven't you read the story of Job?  It could be a test of faith, or maybe there was a God, and now we're truly on our own.

 

Referring back to my Flatland reference: The story stipulates a world where geometric figures.  Imagine two triangles looking at each other:

 

 

We're 3D objects walking around, and if we look at something, then we can only see things in 2D.  Yes: We often have two eyes and can see depth, but we cannot see all around someone simultaneously.  The triangles looking at each other can only scale down and see things in 1D (a line).

 

What if a triangle is stuck in its home and the door is blocked off by a fire?

 

 

The triangle looks forward, behind, up, down, and he realizes he's trapped.  There's no way out according to the triangle, but a higher dimension being such as you and I can pull him out from the sides (3D).

 

So I'm in my room right now and I look up, down, left, right, forward, and behind, and I'm trapped.  I cannot possibly imagine an entity pulling me out through a higher dimension, and so just because I haven't seen it doesn't invalidate its truth should it exist.  Maybe there is a deity watching and I cannot see it or imagine it.

 

What's going on right now?  Is there some deity right now, or which stories are true?  I don't know, and that's why I'm agnostic.  I'm very hesitant and believe any choices requires a certain degree of faith and conditioning.  Again:  What if there was a God and now we're on our own?  What if the deity or deities in other literature are true, or they are all true or all the same?  I don't know.  My point is this: Science requires faith too, and it's difficult for me to imagine higher dimensions I believe would help validate some of these axioms or fundamentals we rely on.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Joshy

[Eli 708 / 11,596]

24 minutes ago, Joshy said:

so I am swimming deep into the gray of agnostic beliefs.

Exacly. Its hard not to WANT to belive that there is somthing after. No one wants their story to end with death, but Its just about who is right?

[Ben 2,378 / 31,861]

This is a very great question. Well, first before I answered the question, this is generally common questions asked by Atheist/Spiritful Satanist. The topic came on late last night. There was also apologetics topic based on this question too, as well. 

 

The answer is, actually, God is, was, and will be infinite. So that being said, He has been existing even before the beginning. Outside the time, so basically, God is eternal.

[rapperdan 2,323 / 0]

3 minutes ago, Benroy said:

This is a very great question. Well, first before I answered the question, this is generally common questions asked by Atheist/Spiritful Satanist. The topic came on late last night. There was also apologetics topic based on this question too, as well. 

 

The answer is, actually, God is, was, and will be infinite. So that being said, He has been existing even before the beginning. Outside the time, so basically, God is eternal.

right and the earth is 6000 years old...

[Ben 2,378 / 31,861]

Just now, rapperdan said:

right and the earth is 6000 years old...

Not necessarily. 

 

I believe that the Earth can be more than 6,000 years old, but not that much(4 Billion years old). Somewhere roughly 20,000-40,000 BC. This may be a little hard to put up on the beliefs. Either way, let's not put this down into leading off-topic unless Kubnair wants this going.

 

Gonna tag @Jcfraven for this interesting thread. 

[Joshy 4,364 / 44,945]

3 minutes ago, rapperdan said:

right and the earth is 6000 years old...

 

That's real snarky.  Why not ask for clarification or elaboration rather than provoking.

[kneegerrlover123 389 / 8,946]

10 minutes ago, Benroy said:

The answer is, actually, God is, was, and will be infinite. So that being said, He has been existing even before the beginning. Outside the time, so basically, God is eternal.

Hey Ben,

 

As I mentioned before, the result of that equation means that God is a useless entity that doesn't serve a purpose, means it's there because it is, was, and there's no reason for it to exist nor a reason for it to die, it means it's a virtual entity that has the potential of existing but doesn't exist, it's a bit complex.

[JK_Ghosty 252 / 5,966]

You believe in only one god?

[Joshy 4,364 / 44,945]

1 minute ago, Syntax said:

Hey Ben,

 

As I mentioned before, the result of that equation means that God is a useless entity that doesn't serve a purpose, means it's there because it is, was, and there's no reason for it to exist nor a reason for it to die, it means it's a virtual entity that has the potential of existing but doesn't exist, it's a bit complex.

 

Why does something existing for all of infinity have to be useless or serve no purpose?  How would you explain conservation of energy or mass?

[kneegerrlover123 389 / 8,946]

6 minutes ago, Joshy said:

 

Why does something existing for all of infinity have to be useless or serve no purpose?  How would you explain conservation of energy or mass?

Hi Joshy,

 

Here's my answer: Because it's not negated by an equal amount of negative energy, the total amount of energy of the universe is 0, and if god was a real thing and a real entity it means that he would have a set value of energy, and a negative energy somewhere else, negative energy can be expressed throughout gravity and some various types of quantum field effects, in short if god existed that would mean that there would be another equal negative force that opposes him or as the "all mighty he is" (no offense) he would have such a strong negative effect he would collapse on himself.

 

Also why are there no more miracles nowadays...I would love to hear an answer

And, how are you supposed to know which god is true seen that there are more than 4000+ gods, obey go to heaven, disobey go to hell...

 

PS: I'm a Muslim as of religious inheritance but I don't believe in god on the inside, won't go on about my life but in short I know a lot about god, and as I know and as Islam says our god is the same as yours as I'm kinda using terms and knowledge I collected by learning about Islam, sorry if I said anything wrong about your god or something like that.

Edited September 24, 2017 by Syntax

[rapperdan 2,323 / 0]

8 minutes ago, Joshy said:

 

That's real snarky.  Why not ask for clarification or elaboration rather than provoking.

tbh it was more about to see bens reaction and well he answered it a way that I have a crap load more respect for him as a person. anyways what I'm trying to get at here is religion in my eyes is simply good for the moral guidance that the stories and the tales and the such provide and tbh in my eyes thats all that should matter tbh it was more of to see if he was the type of person to believe everything which science states false with the things or if he was the type of person with the ability to separate the wrongs and rights of the teachings withen religion I'll say this a thousand times over religion is ment to control the masses and provide a code of ethics which you should look for in that rather then really anything else now while I do believe there is some fucked up shit in the first bible then there was the rewrited one I'll edit this because clearly saying rewritten one and the such is far from the truth it's almost completely different as in one is some what barbaric and the other is well more modernized.

[Joshy 4,364 / 44,945]

13 minutes ago, Syntax said:

the total amount of energy of the universe is 0

 

Is it?  E. Hubble, "A relation between distance and radial velocity among extra-galactic nebulae", PNAS,  Vol. 15(3), pp. 168-173 (1929). DOI: 10.1073/pnas.15.3.168

 

Let us stipulate it is zero, then couldn't the existence of people or the universe as we know it be the counterpart, or couldn't a counterpart exist?

Edited September 24, 2017 by Joshy

[kneegerrlover123 389 / 8,946]

2 minutes ago, Joshy said:

 

Is it?  E. Hubble, "A relation between distance and radial velocity among extra-galactic nebulae", PNAS,  Vol. 3(15), pp. 168-173 (1929). DOI: 10.1073/pnas.15.3.168

The zero-energy universe hypothesis proposes that the total amount of energy in the universe is exactly zero: its amount of positive energy in the form of matter is exactly canceled out by its negative energy in the form of gravity.

-Edward Tryon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-energy_universe

PS: let's keep this on topic please <3

Edited September 24, 2017 by Syntax

[Joshy 4,364 / 44,945]

4 minutes ago, Syntax said:

<removed> hypothesis proposes <removed>

 

I think that's very interesting.

 

edit:

 

I should ask again because I am personally lost by your answers: Why does this make something, which has been around for all of time, useless?

Edited September 24, 2017 by Joshy

[kneegerrlover123 389 / 8,946]

@Joshy it's a hypothesis because it hasn't been fully proven, but it does make sense and it's pretty logical, I mean unless you have a better one well...

Let's keep this on topic please, if you want to talk about it let's do it in discord or somewhere else, just not here because this is about god =)