important Rank Changes [READ]

[Addy 1,648 / 18,732]

22 minutes ago, Roy said:

"Why aren't we trusting our own Server Managers to manage our Admin staff?"

Oh trust me, I agree, "all" Server Managers should be trusted and at the moment, I believe they are by our Division Leaders. But from what I've seen, there are many Server Managers that aren't doing their job correctly. For example, promoting admins only because they are "friends" with them, etc. I see so many Server Admins that aren't active on the forums, etc and I always wonder why they are being promoted by our "trusted" Server Managers.

 

There will always be bad Server Managers and bad Server Admins, but the problem here is I don't see anything being done about them. Nothing has been done about them for months, etc. Servers are actively dying due to mismanagement and I am absolutely sick of it.

 

Am glad someone finally said something about it, kind of surprised it had to be you, though. It seems as the "friend" card is being used a lot more for selecting admins than it used to be say, half a year to a year ago. It kind of just made me die a little inside when admins would say "+1" without any sort of reasoning behind their answer, or even saying something along the lines of "Completely agree with what <name> said, +1".

 

Oh well, at the very least, something will start to get done about it (with requiring Division Leader approval).

 

also, I like the subtle "#RoyOut"

[Coolest Cat 1,266 / 14,449]

Also, for servers that are dying or are near dead, can we implement a quota system for the admins? 

 

I know that some admins will hate it, but if they're not willing to help populate their server then what's the point of them being admin? Like, an admin shouldn't be saying to themselves "Oh no, I have to play on the server I'm admin on!". But if the admin team (most servers have 6+ admins) all coordinate their efforts of playing at the same time then they can easily get the server populated consistently. After about 2 to 3 weeks of consistent players, it'll start to develop some regulars and after a couple of weeks the server should be fine. 

 

P.S., a quota would be something like "Play at least 1 hour a day". And preferably the manager would help organize the time in which the admins should get on so it's not spread out and futile.

[Ben 2,378 / 31,861]

29 minutes ago, Roy said:

 

"Why are the Division Leaders getting the final say for Server Admin promotions?"

It applies only to servers with big teams, right? With this option, it is not necessary and somewhat hard to get Division Leaders involved especially when the servers' population is getting stable and growing up ranks slowly. I talked to Push and I feel that this one should go to the server with more admin teams. Currently, for Combat Surf, there's only one full admin and trial admin. 

 

29 minutes ago, Roy said:

"Why aren't we trusting our own Server Managers to manage our Admin staff?"

Oh trust me, I agree, "all" Server Managers should be trusted and at the moment, I believe they are by our Division Leaders. But from what I've seen, there are many Server Managers that aren't doing their job correctly. For example, promoting admins only because they are "friends" with them, etc. I see so many Server Admins that aren't active on the forums, etc and I always wonder why they are being promoted by our "trusted" Server Managers.

 

There will always be bad Server Managers and bad Server Admins, but the problem here is I don't see anything being done about them. Nothing has been done about them for months, etc. Servers are actively dying due to mismanagement and I am absolutely sick of it. One year ago, GFL had the top servers in the world, but now, I only see one server in the top 50. We used to have at least 5 servers in the top 50 (probably more).

 

Now, not all of this is our Server Managers fault. In fact, a lot of it is Valve's fault especially in the CS:GO division. However, I am still seeing many servers mismanaged.

 

I feel that this whole part was my fault causing this to happen. 

"Mismanaged servers" - "Not enough population" - "Doesn't come on enough often" - "Installs unnecessary plugins"

 

These are the stuff I felt that they were my responsible. I felt that I should do something before this rank changes happens. However, for that, since I have so many things coming up outside the PC world, (Such as, my dad having surgery and has high chance/possibility of losing his leg due to surgery, having doctor appt. tomorrow and doctors deciding whether to put him in hospital or not) I should take less focus of doing that and take my dedication into next level for the management. Currently I've spent last few days or more into the server since I got Server Manager for Combat Surf with @SouRD.

 

So in any result, if this server dies, I will step down and take the responsibility for the actions I did and probably reject taking offers to any servers I get to manage. I've been in Trial Server Manager in over at least half year(since October).

 

29 minutes ago, Roy said:

Yes, those four things held a majority of our server population for a long time. Although "custom" content helps, it isn't required to manage a successful server, well at least on non-GMod servers. In my opinion, when I make game servers in CS:GO, TF2, etc I like making them simple. I absolutely hate loading servers up with useless plugins that doesn't offer much on the server and only possibly slows it down. Only add the plugins you need that will make great changes to the server's environment.

 

I just thought I would say that. I don't like seeing our games servers loaded up with useless plugins potentially affect performance, custom downloadable files making download times longer, etc

I agree with these stuff. If you take a look at developer section for the plugin I requested, they are very much needed for TF2. You'll understand why I send out request.

 

 

Final: As these rank changes are coming, I'm excited for the GFL's Future. The other day, during the time when I was CS:GO DeathRun admin, I'd said that I would stay with GFL regardless of what would comes and what would effect me, and everything. This major changes is coming and I knew it(Sort of),

[Rcool64 1,007 / 16,299]

1 minute ago, Major_Push said:

Also, for servers that are dying or are near dead, can we implement a quota system for the admins? 

 

I know that some admins will hate it, but if they're not willing to help populate their server then what's the point of them being admin? Like, an admin shouldn't be saying to themselves "Oh no, I have to play on the server I'm admin on!". But if the admin team (most servers have 6+ admins) all coordinate their efforts of playing at the same time then they can easily get the server populated consistently. After about 2 to 3 weeks of consistent players, it'll start to develop some regulars and after a couple of weeks the server should be fine. 

 

P.S., a quota would be something like "Play at least 1 hour a day". And preferably the manager would help organize the time in which the admins should get on so it's not spread out and futile.

I have to agree with this.

 

If you're going to be an admin on a server, you're saying that you're willing to dedicate a lot of time into watching over that server.  The people that are becoming admin are people who love the server and want to do more for it. They should NOT have admin if they want to stand out more or for attention.

 

As for getting new admins the application idea isn't a bad idea since it gets rid of ideas. However, I think we should pay more attention to the trial period. When  people get more power/authority, they change.  You could have the nicest person apply for admin and get accepted, and the second they get all this power, they become corrupt. That being said, on some servers, trial admins basically have the same power as an admin, and therefore, the trial rank is useless. We need to limit what new admins can actually do and have managers do a better job of observing their actions and how they act when they're able to do more with commands. 

 

Overall, with great power comes great responsibility. I think we should emphasize the trial period->Full period rather than the member->admin

[HackingPotato 1,297 / 14,301]

1 hour ago, Roy said:

 

"Why aren't we trusting our own Server Managers to manage our Admin staff?"

Oh trust me, I agree, "all" Server Managers should be trusted and at the moment, I believe they are by our Division Leaders. But from what I've seen, there are many Server Managers that aren't doing their job correctly. For example, promoting admins only because they are "friends" with them, etc. I see so many Server Admins that aren't active on the forums, etc and I always wonder why they are being promoted by our "trusted" Server Managers.

 

There will always be bad Server Managers and bad Server Admins, but the problem here is I don't see anything being done about them. Nothing has been done about them for months, etc. Servers are actively dying due to mismanagement and I am absolutely sick of it. One year ago, GFL had the top servers in the world, but now, I only see one server in the top 50. We used to have at least 5 servers in the top 50 (probably more).

 

Now, not all of this is our Server Managers fault. In fact, a lot of it is Valve's fault especially in the CS:GO division. However, I am still seeing many servers mismanaged.

 

 

 

God I hate to be the nazi here...

 

But Roy, council and division leaders you need to step up and make a guideline and quota system for promoting new managers. These "managers" that are going inactive and are mismanaging their servers because they have no direction, discipline, or commitment. They give up and take the rank because of the rep and authority in the community. I know it sounds easy, and i know its not that easy. But sometimes the shit that needs to be done, needs to be done for a reason. We need to stop being so lenient with our staff promotions. 

 

Suggestion;

 

Remember when stefan went around in the divisions (media, GFX, leaders, council, etc) and asked what they have done this week? Division leaders should start doing that with managers. Weed out the baddies, u know? 

[790divadsamohT 134 / 0]

51 minutes ago, Benroyjam said:

It applies only to servers with big teams, right? With this option, it is not necessary and somewhat hard to get Division Leaders involved especially when the servers' population is getting stable and growing up ranks slowly. I talked to Push and I feel that this one should go to the server with more admin teams. Currently, for Combat Surf, there's only one full admin and trial admin. 

 

I feel that this whole part was my fault causing this to happen. 

"Mismanaged servers" - "Not enough population" - "Doesn't come on enough often" - "Installs unnecessary plugins"

 

These are the stuff I felt that they were my responsible. I felt that I should do something before this rank changes happens. However, for that, since I have so many things coming up outside the PC world, (Such as, my dad having surgery and has high chance/possibility of losing his leg due to surgery, having doctor appt. tomorrow and doctors deciding whether to put him in hospital or not) I should take less focus of doing that and take my dedication into next level for the management. Currently I've spent last few days or more into the server since I got Server Manager for Combat Surf with @SouRD.

 

So in any result, if this server dies, I will step down and take the responsibility for the actions I did and probably reject taking offers to any servers I get to manage. I've been in Trial Server Manager in over at least half year(since October).

 

 

Combat surf in full honesty has only 2 active server managers i understand that life is real and you have to focus on it. Ben you should take the time out of your day to see your dad and be there for him our server is doing just fine and while i love your dedication to it i feel you should still be there for your dad. Aswell i feel that youve done a better job running combat surf with me than you did at running cc for csgo. population is hard to get it really is its not easy and you have to work for it. Population requires you to not only be active and play the game but you also have to want to get to know your players.... Talking to them adding them getting to know them sharing life stories etc thats what pulls pepole in. If you feel wellcome and you notice the positive atmosphere then your prone to come back again and again. Like your favorite resturant :D you dont go there because its convienet you go there because you want to go there. I hope everyone can take a lesson from this. Get on your servers and talk to your players dont be a big scary "oh im the admin i make the rules" be a  "Hello wellcome to combat surf how have you been today?" type of admin. When someones being a troll or a douche instead of !mute or !gag just simply step in and be assertive. "hey shut the hell up and quit being a edgy 10 year old no one likes it your not funny" mabey even troll them back pepole love admins who can take the reins of a server and command it without using a !admin menu... i speak from experince i dont even need to be an admin to handle those kind of situations i can do it all with just my microphone. Players love it when a regular uses the mic and can share not only wisdom but provide a unique gaming experince. ALot and i mean ALOT of not only Combat surfs and rpg 100 ticks players but every server on every game as a whole, players have social problems, mental problems, relationship, etc type of issues in there lives, gaming is an escape from life as many of us know.... Its not only our job as server managers, admins, operators and even as players to provide a healthy clean gaming experince we also need to acknowladge that as an admin or a manager you are apart of something more. You are apart of a community now and its up to you on how that community will opperate. Look at .ru's minigames server. Cancerous lying cheating and as a whole toxic community and those players enjoy it because of there personality, your community depending on how it is will attract those kind of pepole , before the shini incident css surf was full of intelligent life loving and mature players who acctually talked about life, jobs, future and just philosophical things in general and in its peak when i played daily and knew everyone we were rank 50.... I hope you all understand what im saying and where im coming from, for me being a manager is special i now get to provide a escape and an experince unlike any other and when my players come on and tell me why they like surfing on GFL's combat surf i get a sense of satisfaction knowing im making someone elses day better. 

 

 

I agree managers who make there freinds admin.. thats wrong an admin needs to deserve to be an admin they need a reason and they need to earn it, i cannot stand someone whos given admin and didnt earn it... like lettuce for example hes been my freind for a few months hes made us maps and even helped me build a community for css hes shown me what hes capable of and what he has to offer yet i still have him as a trial because i feel that when i promote him to  full he might take it for granted i want to see him handle situations on the tf2 surf and be able to attract players in with his personality and his spirit.... like Paradox i xhose him because he has a very positive attitude on life, he has great pepole skills he can hold a conversation and in general he has alot to offer to not just surf but to GFL as a whole.

 

 

[Roy 10,832 / 0]

On 7/20/2016 at 9:50 PM, Major_Push said:

Also, for servers that are dying or are near dead, can we implement a quota system for the admins? 

 

I know that some admins will hate it, but if they're not willing to help populate their server then what's the point of them being admin? Like, an admin shouldn't be saying to themselves "Oh no, I have to play on the server I'm admin on!". But if the admin team (most servers have 6+ admins) all coordinate their efforts of playing at the same time then they can easily get the server populated consistently. After about 2 to 3 weeks of consistent players, it'll start to develop some regulars and after a couple of weeks the server should be fine. 

 

P.S., a quota would be something like "Play at least 1 hour a day". And preferably the manager would help organize the time in which the admins should get on so it's not spread out and futile.

I definitely agree with this. If you're an admin on only one of GFL's servers but aren't active on the server itself because of it "being dead", you shouldn't be admin. In my opinion, if all admins were active on server(s) they are admin for, chances are the population on that specific server would rise and dead servers would gain more life and have a high chance at becoming popular again.

 

On 7/20/2016 at 10:40 PM, HackingPotato said:

 

God I hate to be the nazi here...

 

But Roy, council and division leaders you need to step up and make a guideline and quota system for promoting new managers. These "managers" that are going inactive and are mismanaging their servers because they have no direction, discipline, or commitment. They give up and take the rank because of the rep and authority in the community. I know it sounds easy, and i know its not that easy. But sometimes the shit that needs to be done, needs to be done for a reason. We need to stop being so lenient with our staff promotions. 

 

Suggestion;

 

Remember when stefan went around in the divisions (media, GFX, leaders, council, etc) and asked what they have done this week? Division leaders should start doing that with managers. Weed out the baddies, u know? 

I agree that there needs to be stricter guidelines, etc in promoting new managers. We used to have a Server Manager Requirements thread (or was it guidelines? I don't remember). However, we stopped using that. One "requirement" I would of removed from it would be "18 years or older" because I've seen some great staff members in GFL who are younger than 18. Although, I would agree we should aim for Managers who are 18 years or older. 

 

I think another issue is that there really aren't many "great" Server Managers to pick from. It is indeed tough picking Server Managers because there always seems to be a group that doesn't support him/her. I believe we need to work together and pick better Server Managers. If a server doesn't have any good Server Manager candidates, I believe it would be better if somebody who is already trusted took over the server temporarily than picking a bad Server Manager that:

1. Would slowly kill the population with poor choices.
2. Hard to demote since they are already a Server Manager, etc.

Of course, if the server is dead already, it would probably be best to shut it down temporarily until a good Server Manager candidate comes up.

 

I would also agree with this. However, I don't believe I would have the time to do so. First, we need to get the Team divisions sorted. I still haven't had the time to decide what we're doing with all of that.

 

After that is all done, I hope the Council (or soon-to-be "Board of Directors") can go around and ask each Division (game/team divisions) to give them some kind of status report? Actually, in my opinion, that would be a cool job for the Community Advisers.

 

Edit: Oh yeah, and I do agree with Division Leaders doing that with Server Managers. That should start immediately. I just wanted to address the communication thing overall.

 

Thanks.

[Roy 10,832 / 0]

That said, it appears a majority of the people who have posted in here agrees with the rank changes themselves. Although, some of you have issues with things like "Division leaders approving Admin Applications that need to be accepted earlier than a week and a half", etc. I plan on clearing that up in the future.

 

However, for now, I would say we are set to apply these ranks very soon.

 

Thanks.

[Rcool64 1,007 / 16,299]

I do believe these rank changes could fix the future of GFL. I like the ideas of what people suggested, mainly @Major_Push and @HackingPotato. I believe most of everyone's ideas combined could fix not only the problems with the admins and the managers, but it could fix problems of some of the higher-ups as well.

[HackingPotato 1,297 / 14,301]

3 hours ago, Roy said:

I definitely agree with this. If you're an admin on only one of GFL's servers but aren't active on the server itself because of it "being dead", you shouldn't be admin. In my opinion, if all admins were active on server(s) they are admin for, chances are the population on that specific server would rise and dead servers would gain more life and have a high chnce at becoming popular again.

 

I agree that there needs to be stricter guidelines, etc in promoting new managers. We used to have a Server Manager Requirements thread (or was it guidelines? I don't remember). However, we stopped using that. One "requirement" I would of removed from it would be "18 years or older" because I've seen some great staff members in GFL who are younger than 18. Although, I would agree we should aim for Managers who are 18 years or older. 

 

I think another issue is that there really aren't many "great" Server Managers to pick from. It is indeed tough picking Server Managers because there always seems to be a group that doesn't support him/her. I believe we need to work together and pick better Server Managers. If a server doesn't have any good Server Manager candidates, I believe it would be better if somebody who is already trusted took over the server temporarily than picking a bad Server Manager that:

1. Would slowly kill the population with poor choices.
2. Hard to demote since they are already a Server Manager, etc.

Of course, if the server is dead already, it would probably be best to shut it down temporarily until a good Server Manager candidate comes up.

 

I would also agree with this. However, I don't believe I would have the time to do so. First, we need to get the Team divisions sorted. I still haven't had the time to decide what we're doing with all of that.

 

After that is all done, I hope the Council (or soon-to-be "Board of Directors") can go around and ask each Division (game/team divisions) to give them some kind of status report? Actually, in my opinion, that would be a cool job for the Community Advisers.

 

Edit: Oh yeah, and I do agree with Division Leaders doing that with Server Managers. That should start immediately. I just wanted to address the communication thing overall.

 

Thanks.

 

 

I do appericate the response and I do understand the complications that can come with what I had suggested. Overall I'm looking forward to seeing management take steps to become a strong team. 

[Alucard33rd 1,175 / 15,145]

I know a handful of Admins who either have not made new forum or don't want to. It's been a while since the new forums and those people should be removed.

 

I have still seen some favoritism in managers when it comes to inactive admins. I have seen reliable operators and admins be removed because they were inactive for a few weeks but certain favorites be inactive for months and not removed.

[Joshy 4,364 / 44,927]

 

The older thread on this topic was wiped, but here is along the lines of what I understood.  I do have to admit a few things:

• I don't want to put words into your mouth.  I don't think you said anything about completely agreeing with me or my point of view.
• I'm new to the Server Admin community here, and I might not have all the information to make a fair or reasonable response to your post.

The reason that I am still against is because of the alternatives, and because I feel you have already done this in the past and it is known to have not worked.  The alternative being... instead of revamping an entire position, why not promote a 1 or 2 of the Council members into a (sub) administrator position, and preserve the current Council member position?  We can take this at baby steps.  This is what I have shown with the red arrow.  I think this is still okay, but I still have preference for enforcing a chain of command.  You don't have to respond or accept everything; I know it makes you feel bad, but this is how delegation works, and it's going to work out in the long run.

 

Consider my earlier example with the retail store:  Almost ALL customers with a problem wants to see the Store Manager (just skip over everyone).  Isn't this silly when a Supervisor or Department Manager can help them?  Absolutely, and this is why customers have to work their way up the chain.  I've seen customers call and scream for a Store Manager, and even go so far asking for their personal number to call them on their day off -- it's not going to happen.  If the Store Manager tended to everything, then they would be very overwhelmed like yourself; however, to continue with the baby steps, I think an Assistant Store Manager equivalent would be fine to help dampen your burden as the main leader.  The Store Manager can't be involved in intricate details of the store, but they can guide their top leaders and let the effects trickle down...  only intervening wherever their leaders are straying too far from what they would like.

 

My understanding of the Council members when it was reintroduced was that the Division Leaders would have the dominating authority over their individual division, and Council members were gap fillers wherever a Division Leader fell short (gone on vacation or offline and servers are having an issue that has no Server Manager) or wherever a conflict may arise between multiple divisions (ie. one division allows racial slurs and another does not -- a player gets banned on one server for dropping the N-bomb, but it would have been perfectly acceptable in the other [who should they talk to, right?]).  So far as permissions go, they can do everything across the board because they are multidisciplinary; however, so far as authority goes "Who's got the final say?", then the DL should have priority over their respective division.  To further my analogy in the retail store: You've seen Manager in Charge (MIC) / Person in Charge (PIC) / Manager or Leader on Duty (MoD, LoD) before, right?  It's a temporary role in retail stores where some supervisor have authority over the entire store, but their true position concentrations in an area.  The supervisor with MIC duties wont having a dominating say over the department that isn't their own, but they can make decisions while nobody else is available to keep the ball rolling... the store can't just stop.  They can report these issues and help with decisions based on their experience (customers are still coming in to return this and that, or signage in this area is always wrong, etc) to prevent problems in the future.

 

In my eyes: You want to promote everyone with the MIC duties into the Store Manager's position.  MIC didn't have full authority over the departments and had no final say except under circumstance (they only had permissions to approve things), but now they'll always have higher authority too.  I'm hoping this clears up the confusion with my verbiage so far as authority and permissions go.

 

To summarize this: You're proposing a system that is know to have not worked.  It just has a different name, but it's effectively the same thing.  I understand that you are booked, but I don't think revamping an entire position into an older style that didn't work (or at least similar) before is going to correct it.  We can try something that is easier like a single promotion or two, or enforcing the chain of command, and we can tune this as we discover how it affects the community.

 

 

[myPHART 281 / 5,459]

Quick question about "sponsoring."

 

A lot of people have been asking me to sponsor their admin application, but I'm not sure if I'm even allowed to sponsor, being a trial admin for about 5 months now. Am I even allowed to sponsor?

 

And about the rank changes, would people who are admins now have to go through some sort of 'screening procedure?' What I mean by that is, are current admins / trial admins going to be judged based on their track record on the server they are currently an admin on? 

[Snoopy 1,480 / 15,610]

7 hours ago, myPHART said:

Quick question about "sponsoring."

 

A lot of people have been asking me to sponsor their admin application, but I'm not sure if I'm even allowed to sponsor, being a trial admin for about 5 months now. Am I even allowed to sponsor?

 

And about the rank changes, would people who are admins now have to go through some sort of 'screening procedure?' What I mean by that is, are current admins / trial admins going to be judged based on their track record on the server they are currently an admin on? 

 

Not all servers run this "sponsorship of admins" program sort of thing thought is sounds like you admin on a server that does. The best thing to do is speak to your Server Manager and see what he says. He'll give you all the Dos and Don'ts and guide you through what needs to be done.

 

Admins most likely won't go through a "screening procedure" due to these new rank changes. It would be left down to your Server Manager to decide what happens to the Admins on his server. It would be best if you speak to him again.

[Chormee 2,973 / 29,227]

Well i hope the admins who don't deserve the position are removed from the group, since it's labeled as "A trusted individual capable of keeping our servers clean and fun." and "Be a role model to other server admins and players."

 

just my thoughts.

Edited August 6, 2016 by Stick

[Cesium_137 0 / 2,117]

Nice, the changes looks Very good...

[Joshy 4,364 / 44,927]

Posting in old threads makes me sad  Thread locked to prevent future sadness