an inconvenient truth

[Flops 386 / 7,269]

Hey everyone, I recently noticed that SpaceCow is no longer an admin. With him being gone (as one of the most active admins/players), I felt like it was time to have the dreaded conversation that everyone wants to ignore and pretend isn't a big issue. The admins of the server are simply put inactive. They are allowed to be in their position and still have the powers and privileges that come with adminship, yet they fulfill 0 of the responsibilities that they have to the server. I know that I'm just a little old pleb and tons of shit happens behind the scenes... But why are admins allowed to be so inactive and still have their power? I seriously love all of you guys, but many of guys aren't doing a very good job... If you wanna emphasize HOURS HOURS HOURS for newer admins, why don't you do the same and play at least the bare minimum? Otherwise for the most part occupying positions of power with barely any server playtime leads to a disconnect between your ideas and the larger community's ideas (magnified cause in this system since only admin opinions matter in decisions that affect us all) AND leads to new and great candidates being turned away simply cause there are too many admins (Altek?). At some point, I believe the admins should understand that if they are not fulfilling their obligations due to choice/inability to, perhaps they should simply retire.

 

 

Tl;DR - The community should definitely play a more integral part in key decisions (from determining admins to demoting admins), and those in power shouldn't be able to have the power/privileges they have and not do their basic job as server admins. I know I am not the only one who has these opinions - Many in the admin team and in the larger community believe this to be true (first part at least).

 

Please, don't take anything I said personally, I still love all of you   - Fetty    

I'd like to hear what some of the admins have to say on this whole inactivity issue and what the community thinks about what goes on in the server/what should be done.

 

 

EDIT : Hey guys, here's spacecow's statement on why he left. https://pastebin.com/EDzDtewf

 

This once again shows how i feel that we need more of a voice in decisions that affect us all - If space can be demoted for abuse directed against us, why aren't we able to weigh in on the decision?

 

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by Flops
for the world to hear

[Snowy 837 / 11,431]

About the inactivity, I'm sure at least 80%+ of the admins are active in the server. When i say active, I am not referring to admins staying 3+ hours PER day in the server. When i say active, i mean they will come on the server for at least 1 hour per day and if for some reason they can't play on that day, they'll just get the hours back on the weekends or something. Cause you know, the admins have a life and most have a job/school ongoing.

 

About 0 community interactions about promoting admin and demoting them, i do not see anything wrong, if you wanted to see someone to be an admin, can't you just "like" their admin applications instead of replying? And why would demoting admin be a community choice?

 

i wrote this very fast, cause im in class, thanks

 

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by xSnowyAngel

[Block 281 / 5,744]

To shed some light on the situation:

Spacecow was tier 2. He was demoted to Tier 1 because he did indeed abuse his powers, there are logs of evidence. We do not consider the "battle royales" to be abuse, because while it is odd from the intent of the server, he did initiate votes and got the approval of the players. However, the abuse he did commit was slapping himself forward to grab items quicker than other players, muting and gagging without a good reason, etc. You cannot justify that.

 

It was Space's decision to step down from being admin. He was not forced, in fact we were rather surprised it happened.  His reasons are his own and we will leave it at that. 

 

As far as inactivity goes, I understand that some admins are not on as often or as frequent. However, I believe that is because of your time zone and when you play. We all have our own lives that come first before the server, whether you like that fact or not. But just being on this past week, I saw all the admins on at multiple points and different times. Length may vary each day, but we are active. Plus, we are always a ping away on discord if you actually do need us. I've yet to see a report or a ping be left untouched for more than 5-10 mins.

 

And as far as community decision making and influence, this is exactly what should be happening. Why do we even have a forum if nobody wishes to make their complaints known? This isn't just for posting your Aesthetic or Diddle wins (Or your spicy memes  ).

 

Thank you for your contribution Fetty.

[foreX 36 / 2,594]

You guys need a few more admins. I know it was almost mandatory to be active on teamspeak as admin before. That's like being forced to hang out after work with your co-workers for an unpaid job that causes cancer. I hope that's no longer a condition for unpaid GFL employment. 

 

Get some admins that are good people and act mature and retain them. Even if they're under the 12 year old GFL threshold they'll get it right 99% of the time. Doing too little (or nothing by not being on) is just as bad as doing too much. People are people and shit happens from time to time. 

Edited November 17, 2017 by foreX

[Black 59 / 3,430]

2 hours ago, Saint-Tab said:

 

I have put hundreds of hours in the server with the company of Space Cow and I haven't seen him doing that a single time. And if he did, I'm 100% confident it wasn't to be mean spirited but more to animate the server, create a better ambiance, add more fun... Can you give me a link or show the logs you're talking about that incriminate him? Or is it for higher ups only?

This.
Most time I've only seen him do the slap thing for shits and gigs but nothing too crazy.
Also, I know people have in-real life stuff that they need to get to do and thats perfectly fine however if they have too much conflict with personal life and responsibilities maybe they shouldn't be admins. I'm not saying admins should be on 24/7 but there is certain long stretches of time where there isn't an admin to be seen.

[koala 102 / 3,719]

Just because you guys haven't personally seen him do it, doesn't mean he didn't do it. He was reported and called out for it right over here.

 

 

Snowy looked into it, and found tons of logs of Spacecow abusing. Using your admin powers to affect the gameplay like that is against the rules, and ANYONE who does it will be demoted.

 

If this were any other admin, you guys wouldn't give a fuck about them being demoted to t1, but just because it is Space, y'all are creating a bigger deal than necessary. 

 

We just demoted him to t1 (and he wouldn't have stayed t1 forever, it most likely would have only been for a month anyway before he was promoted back to t2), he didn't like that and decided to resign completely of his own decision.

 

I would also like to reiterate what Block said right over here.

 

"We do not consider the "battle royales" to be abuse, because while it is odd from the intent of the server, he did initiate votes and got the approval of the players. However, the abuse he did commit was slapping himself forward to grab items quicker than other players, muting and gagging without a good reason, etc. You cannot justify that."

Edited November 19, 2017 by koala

[Black 59 / 3,430]

4 hours ago, koala said:

Just because you guys haven't personally seen him do it, doesn't mean he didn't do it. He was reported and called out for it right over here.

 

 

Snowy looked into it, and found tons of logs of Spacecow abusing. Using your admin powers to affect the gameplay like that is against the rules, and ANYONE who does it will be demoted.

 

If this were any other admin, you guys wouldn't give a fuck about them being demoted to t1, but just because it is Space, y'all are creating a bigger deal than necessary. 

 

We just demoted him to t1 (and he wouldn't have stayed t1 forever, it most likely would have only been for a month anyway before he was promoted back to t2), he didn't like that and decided to resign completely of his own decision.

 

I would also like to reiterate what Block said right over here.

 

"We do not consider the "battle royales" to be abuse, because while it is odd from the intent of the server, he did initiate votes and got the approval of the players. However, the abuse he did commit was slapping himself forward to grab items quicker than other players, muting and gagging without a good reason, etc. You cannot justify that."

Thats not true.

I just find it kinda hard to believe someone like SpaceCow who has dedicated a lot of time and effort into ZE would do something like that. Some of us including myself are clouded by some bias because again he's one of the more active, fun and recognizable admins on the server (Fuck BB and warped lul jk).

But proof is proof and that seems solid enough and no one should above the rules.

 

 

[Alexander 8 / 1,557]

Seeing that there are clearly some misunderstandings about what happened, perhaps we should corroborate what actually happened?

 

Based of what I've read, the following is an account of what happened.

AzraelJin made a report against Spacecow about the abuse of his admin power.

Snowy followed up with an investigation finding Spacecow guilty of said abuse. Said "admin will be punished accordingly".

Spacecow was demoted to t1 as punishment for his abuse of admin powers (slapping himself forward to grab items quicker than other players, muting and gagging without a good reason, etc. as highlighted by Block and koala).

Spacecow resigned from being an admin of his own accord.

 

@Saint-Tab Spacecow wasn't demoted for just abusing some "cancerous new guy" but simply for the abuse of his powers. Based off what the admins who have replied have said, it seems certain that the abuse of admin powers is inexcusable regardless of how well liked or what tier the admin is and will be punished. Nor does it matter how new or how cancerous the person who was abused and made the report is.

 

To not solely focus on the demotion and resignation of one admin and to address the larger question posed by the OP, as follows is my input. The admin requirements set forth in admin applications are made to assess the potential, ability, and maturity to not perform the admin duties that entail but also fit in well with both the admin team and the server's community. As such, I do not believe it to be necessary that any approved admin be reassessed by the community if he/she is fit to continue as admin. However, I do get what Fetty is getting at; that some admins have reduced their hours and activity since their approval and are seemingly "inactive". I do not think there should be any standing requirements for existing admins to fulfill. It would be best to raise any concerns that the inactivity of an admin being in any way detrimental to the server and its community with the admin himself, or the higherups, and trust that they address such concerns on a case by case basis.

 

Note: Is asking for proof, evidence, or logs of his abuse necessary? Do you not trust the server manager to duly investigate and punish any admin misconduct accordingly? I speak for myself when I say that I trust the admins to do so however should you not, that is another issue that should perhaps be address in a seperate topic.

 

TL;DR

Spacecow was demoted for the abuse of his admin powers following which he resigned of his own accord.

I acknowledge that some admins have reduced hours (much like many players getting burnt out from the game mode or shifting interests to other games) but do not think the community should be making any decisions about the approval/demotion/assessment of any admin as that power should lie with the admin team. We, as the community, should definitely express any concerns of "dead admins" but also understand that there are members of the team that work behind the scenes to aid and improve the server, ways in which we as the community do not notice in our daily cancerous trihard laser fuckfests.

[reduct 600 / 7,862]

Rules are rules.  

 

Why is this even a thread? Do you guys not have enough cancer in-game that you needed to make this and speculate wildly about a situation that you don't fully know about yourself? 

 

[Flops 386 / 7,269]

i wanted this to be primarily focused on admin activity and the community role in key decisions, not SpaceCows demotion. At this point, most of the community knows what’s up and the circumstances (spacecows own input, snowy clarifying). If what the admins say is true, despite his intentions and what we feel spacecow abused and that’s it. Can we stop arguing about his demotion cause we all know the goddamn circumstances around it, and focus on real issues? (Such as the ones that I made this whole thread about??)

 

 I feel like this thread has led to a pointless brawl between admins and the community that could’ve been prevented  with better communication

Edited November 19, 2017 by Flops

[Flops 386 / 7,269]

1 hour ago, Alexander said:

but do not think the community should be making any decisions about the approval/demotion/assessment of any admin as that power should lie with the admin team

I disagree completely, admins exist for the sole purpose of the community, and you say that as a community we can’t weigh in on how they are doing as admins? We don’t even appoint or vote the admins in, if the admin were corrupt or  wanted to they could make an absolute trash candidate an admin and we couldn’t do anything about it. While maybe we shouldn’t have the power to weigh in if we dont know what goes on behind the scenes, we definitely should know so we actually are able to make educated decisions - we need more c o m m u n i c a t i o n. Why are we kept in the dark about important things like spacecows demotion, and why does it take a thread to finally get an answer?

[Alexander 8 / 1,557]

You misunderstand. Not being able to make any decision is not the same as having no input. I did say that as the community, we should definitely raise any concerns we have be it about the server or admin team.

 

For example, community members being able to like/comment on an admin application can be taken into consideration. This isn't making any decision like having a vote like an admin does but is still input be it troll or valuable.

[akphilo 46 / 2,193]

What a topic!

Good effort Fetty to bring this up. I agree with your points (activity) and snowy did reply accordingly. And we can already experience a more frequent admin activity. 

 

Quote

Snowy:  i do not see anything wrong, if you wanted to see someone to be an admin, can't you just "like" their admin applications instead of replying? And why would demoting admin be a community choice?

 

I agree that it is a decision of the manager and the team. We cant dislike applications though but i dont want to be it like reddit that either. Reminds me too much of reddit. If you have a system which heavily relies on "feelgoodpoints" people tend to hide their true opinions in fear of a backleash. Who would desire that.

 

It is mentioned that talking about spacecow derails the topic intention, but honestly admin activity and spacecow leaving are heavily intertwinded. For those of us who interacted on a daily basis with him, the pill that he "abused his powers to get items" is way to bitter to swallow. It feels like the easy way out to sweep the dirt under the rug. He did a lot for gfl thats why we have the turmoil we have right now.

 

Block thank you for trying to shed light in it. Snowy told me the same when i private messaged him about the remains of Spacecow instead of making a forum post like Fetty. Like i said the official version doesnt satisfy some of us because we have quiet the contrary impression to what his crimes are. That is the key point.

 

I donkt know if others think the same: this is not about getting Spacecow back as admin, hell i am confident he doesnt want to come back either as admin. We will continue playing together. My biggest issue is i strongly believe Spacecow is innocent in hinsight of being one of a few admins who were very active at the time, getting in focus in the admins command logs, got lets say unlucky with admin abuse accusations and from here on you can add the official version if you want to believe it or not. Thats why i said before that activity and Spacecow are intertwined. It just saddens me that the cost of having this discussion was way to high (losing an active admin).

 

I look forward for more activity which can be felt already. I trust snowy to do a good job as a manager.I am just unhappy about the sacrifice it took.

 

Quote

Alexander: I do not think there should be any standing requirements for existing admins to fulfill. It would be best to raise any concerns that the inactivity of an admin being in any way detrimental to the server and its community with the admin himself, or the higherups, and trust that they address such concerns on a case by case basis.

 

Hey Alexander great post. I fully agree to your points on the matter. But as you can see from some  of the responses in this topic it can be hard to have trust in what you are saying. 

 

I kinda like to write more about what just happened in discord but this will only make it worse, instead just play together and let people have their opinions without intervening with mutes or threats.

 

Cheers
 

 

 

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Some offtopic but the post from Koala where you can see bb´s response on the admin application. You got a real treasure in your admin team now. Clearly he is fresh and eager to help the community, good response. He really understands what the concept of being an admoon is about. I just know we will argue in the near future because i am a little troublemaker and no admoon material. You made me open my eyes i am not fit to be one (yes you can laugh i totally considered it but i want to be more silly than it is reasonable when i play on non tryhard maps)