Freedom of Speech and Racism

[Coolest Cat 1,266 / 14,449]

2 hours ago, Malal said:

Oh right because I don't have 3k hours on the server it means my opinion is invalid, sorry I'll make sure to spend 3k hours on GFL before giving my opinion.

because they can be fun to say

 

Yeah instead it's a white person's place to ban the use of the word,

 

It's not hard to use the Self muting commands the game/server provides and to ignore someone saying the word too and it is actually quite hard to kill a habit, if you have ever cursed when you died/got angry it is the same as that.

 

The argument is selective enforcement.

?

What does allowing a word to be used have to do with welcoming new players, we aren't going to say "HELLO NIGGER" to every new player who joins

 

If your argument for using derogatory terms while also ignoring all of their history and having zero consideration for others is simply because "its fun". Then I think this whole argument is pointless. 

 

For the record, I'm a Mexican-American. And we're not instructing people to be offended by the word. We ban the word because we know people will be offended by the word. That's how the world works. You can't just tell people not to be bothered by it. You're acting like us banning it is out of line but I can't see why. And it's not only Black folks who are uncomfortable with the word. People of color such as myself are uncomfortable with people using the word because unsurprisingly the types of people who use the N-word also are the ones who most likely would use a Mexican slur against me at best or harbor negative feelings towards me at worst. Either way, I'm fairly certain it makes many people of color uneasy to hear racial slurs.

 

But why even allow it to get to the point of self-muting? Our servers are supposed to be (a lot of people are going to get triggered right now) safe spaces. Shockingly, people play video games to destress themselves and relax. More people would benefit from not hearing slurs than would benefit from being able to use them. I'm fairly certain you're not American so there is probably a cultural barrier but race relations in the United States aren't exactly the most stable right now. Furthermore, I'd rather have the servers be inclusive and get rid of edgelords and actual racists than getting more edgelords/racists and getting rid of normal folks who just want to have fun. And sure, in theory, one or two people will use it and get self muted. But in practice, I guarantee you it's going to get used a lot and it's going to get tiresome having to self-mute people for using slurs every day. Not only that, but it actively breeds a toxic environment because like I said, most normal people don't want to actively use slurs. It's a bad habit and being punished for having said bad habit will lead to less people having the bad habit. There is a language and cultural barrier so the first time someone says it on accident shouldn't get them crucified. But it doesn't take long to realize that those aren't words people take lightly and then stop using them. It's like when I lose a game of Overwatch, I could call my teammates shit and berate them, but that's pretty toxic and a bad habit. I have the decency to restrain myself and not do it. But if I didn't, then the threat of being muted by Blizzard would definitely help me resist the temptation. 

 

Anyway, people act like we should just let people be assholes to each other and not care, but why? If ignoring people is the solution to everyone being annoying then we wouldn't have admins mute for mic spam and the like. It's annoying, yes, but we have the self-mute plugin. It just so happens to be that mic spam is a universally annoying thing. People should be punished for shitty behavior. They can think it and say it to themselves but we don't want that on our servers and most players don't want to hear it either so we don't allow it. 

 

Letting racial slurs go freely just will make our servers look bad and uninviting. Hearing racial slurs tends to ruin multiple player experiences while only really benefiting the person who used the slur. It's a net loss for server enjoyment. And like I said, it's not like everyone absolutely needs to be able to call people the N-word. Just be considerate of others, don't be an asshole, and don't use racial slurs. It really is that easy. 

 

As far as double standards go, I agree that we're too lenient and it always makes me uncomfortable. It's not my place to punish people for using slurs on the forums or discord so I don't. And this is a thread about whether or not it should be allowed, so I'm giving my 2 cents. If I was actively still admining on the servers then I wouldn't allow any derogatory words. It just makes things overwhelmingly toxic for the benefit of a few players. And this is just my personal feelings, but I'll always be happy to punish someone for being racist or using racist rhetoric. Because fuck them. Respecting others is not some foreign concept. Empathy is literally one of the defining traits of human beings. 

 

tl;dr: "It's fun" isn't a good argument. It is only fun for you. Most people will be put off by it. It creates a net loss of enjoyment since while one person gets joy from it, another dozen will have their experience ruined. Just have some empathy and consideration for others and don't be an asshole. It's not hard. There are people on the other side of the screen. 

 

Also, unless someone can give me an actual argument other than "it's fun". I'm done with this thread. I've given my arguments for why it shouldn't be allowed. I want to hear why it should be. And none of this, "just ignore them" stuff. People should be punished for bad behavior. It's common sense. If people are doing it for attention, then just gag/mute them and move on. It's so much more convenient. Sure, it won't change their opinions on race, but that's not the point, is it? The point is to ensure our players are having fun and in a safe environment free from shit like racism. 

Edited January 28, 2019 by Major_Push

[Coolest Cat 1,266 / 14,449]

Also, freedom of speech is overrated when it comes to racism.

 

You have the right to say racist stuff but that doesn't mean you have the right to make people listen to it.

 

We're not oppressing anyone because a server is not the place to be having delicate discussions about race, politics, or anything that's a hot button topic to begin with. Most people, unsurprisingly, don't care and just want to have fun. 

 

People have the freedom to say hate speech but people also have the freedom to get away from hate speech and we have the freedom to give them somewhere away from it. 

It's that simple. 

[Malal 145 / 0]

1 minute ago, Major_Push said:

If your argument for using derogatory terms while also ignoring all of their history and having zero consideration for others is simply because "its fun". Then I think this whole argument is pointless. 

The history is that America had slavery

I am not American, none of my family owned slaves, I never owned a slave, most Americans did not own slaves

Consideration of others for what, do people hear someone yell out nigger when they die in a blind rage and get flash backs to their great great grandfather being whipped for trying to escape?

3 minutes ago, Major_Push said:

For the record, I'm a Mexican-American.

Mexican American is incredibly vague, are you a Mestizo, Indigenous like the Mayans or of Spanish descent?

4 minutes ago, Major_Push said:

You can't just tell people not to be bothered by it.

It's what you do with all the other insults that are ignored.

 

5 minutes ago, Major_Push said:

And it's not only Black folks who are uncomfortable with the word

How fragile do you have to be to uncomfortable with a word that isn't meant to offend you

 

6 minutes ago, Major_Push said:

because unsurprisingly the types of people who use the N-word also are the ones who most likely would use a Mexican slur against me at best or harbor negative feelings towards me at worst.

Because someone saying nigger means they're racist against Mexicans.

6 minutes ago, Major_Push said:

But why even allow it to get to the point of self-muting?

Why not? Both parties are happy, the people who are "uncomfortable" with the word don't hear it, the people who want to hear it, do hear it.

7 minutes ago, Major_Push said:

Our servers are supposed to be (a lot of people are going to get triggered right now) safe spaces

You've got issues if you consider a CS:GO server a safe space.

9 minutes ago, Major_Push said:

More people would benefit from not hearing slurs than would benefit from being able to use them.

Just because you punish something doesn't mean it won't happen, I sometimes just say nigger just because it's banned, there are times where I only say it because it's a forbidden word and will get me punished as well as some attention

 

10 minutes ago, Major_Push said:

race relations in the United States aren't exactly the most stable right now

There hasn't been a racial riot or any mass racial violence in two years, the race relations are literally at the best they have ever been in the US.

 

12 minutes ago, Major_Push said:

I'd rather have the servers be inclusive

So where do you draw the line, ban faggot because it's excluding gays, ban the word tranny, ban the word retard/autist ban the word stupid/idiot?

Go so far that the only insults you have left are unimaginative ones that aren't even insults.

And this does happen, I have seen the servers that use to allow all slurs, to banning just nigger, to banning other ones such as faggot etc.

14 minutes ago, Major_Push said:

It's a bad habit and being punished for having said bad habit will lead to less people having the bad habit.

i still say nigger on gfl when i feel like it and the gags/mutes aren't dissuading me from doing it on gfl, let alone else where, if anything it's encouragement as I mentioned earlier.

17 minutes ago, Major_Push said:

 

Anyway, people act like we should just let people be assholes to each other and not care, but why?

This is a different issue to letting people say nigger.

18 minutes ago, Major_Push said:

Letting racial slurs go freely just will make our servers look bad and uninviting

It's a real minority of CS:GO players who hear someone saying nigger or any slur for that matter and quiting/disconnecting, it's  CS:GO.

19 minutes ago, Major_Push said:

It's a net loss for server enjoyment.

Imagine not enjoying the server because someone said nigger once, you could just !sm them like a normal person and move on and keep enjoying the server, but instead you get offended and ruin your own fun over it.

20 minutes ago, Major_Push said:

It really is that easy. 

Do you not curse when you get angry? It's like that for others.

21 minutes ago, Major_Push said:

racist rhetoric.

What is racist rhetoric to you, how far do you go about this?

22 minutes ago, Major_Push said:

Respecting others is not some foreign concept. Empathy is literally one of the defining traits of human beings.

I think you know very little about humans beings, the biggest group size using studies on Chimpanzees has been shown to be 150 give or take 80 with a max of 230.

23 minutes ago, Major_Push said:

another dozen will have their experience ruined.

i dont think anyone's experience is ruined when i say nigger on the server

14 minutes ago, Major_Push said:

People have the freedom to say hate speech but people also have the freedom to get away from hate speech and we have the freedom to give them somewhere away from it. 

Sure, and I have the freedom to voice my opinion on whether GFL should or should not allow it, GFL doesn't have to do it, however banning slurs does mean GFL isn't for free speech.

[k2nod 198 / 6,333]

@Malal Why do you want to say the n word so bad?

[Coolest Cat 1,266 / 14,449]

4 minutes ago, k2nod said:

@Malal Why do you want to say the n word so bad?

 

I too would like to know.

 

 

@Malal

I absolutely refuse to waste my time arguing with someone who is being intentionally dense. 

 

Unless you can give me a good reason, it really boils down to you wanting to be able to call people a "nigger" because you want to. In which case, I don't think I can ever change your mind. That's something you'll have to do over time.

 

Also if you don't mind me asking, how old are you?

Edited January 28, 2019 by Major_Push

[ReivaX 63 / 2,626]

Does it really matter?

 

In all honestly does the 'banning' of one word actually affect your freedom of speech. It's arguing out of principal, arguing for the sake of arguing-  which I do a lot of, so i would know. 

 

Go say the words in discord, people couldn't care less - the reason it's not allowed on servers is because it's GFL policy. This is why admins happily say it on discords but are forced to police it on the servers. 

 

And because it's against GFL policy, this is why it can't be changed, and if you do want it to change, @malal

@Citizen... then your talking to the wrong people in the wrong thread. 

 

And after all this:

If you refuse to say it on private discord servers

If you refuse to accept the consequences of your actions

If you refuse to actually look at the reason you're arguing for

 

Then you can suggest it in this handy ze thread that the admins will look over and consider. 

gl

Edited January 28, 2019 by ReivaX
i really like colours :lenny:

[dont care, fuck off 56 / 2,710]

@ReivaX i already made my suggestion. I felt ZE had bigger issues than free speech.

 

Quite frankly, I'm fairly indifferent. I just wanna roast alpha lol 😄

Edited January 28, 2019 by Citizen

[Snoopy 1,480 / 15,610]

The rule is:

 

Quote

Toxicity
Do NOT be overly toxic. This includes using blatant or extreme racism or sexism, trolling, overly negative, causing trouble with other users, etc.

 

A few uses of the "N" word doesn't fit under the extreme racism rule, however, if it is over used and constantly spammed/said or used in a manner where it is to mean harm to a player (IE not joking) then action can be taken against it. That's GFL policy on it. It's always been like that though each server has slightly different views on how it should be handled.

[Chewie2k 103 / 3,801]

Lets just not fight over  abt saying the n word on the server and just follow the rules, would be much appreciated , Thank you.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Chewie2k

[Malal 145 / 0]

3 hours ago, k2nod said:

@Malal Why do you want to say the n word so bad?

Why do you want to punish people for saying it so badly?

It's almost like the taboo and stigma around the word makes it attractive.

3 hours ago, Major_Push said:

I absolutely refuse to waste my time arguing with someone who is being intentionally dense. 

Yeah I am intentionally dense, not the person spouting straight up false hoods.

2 hours ago, ReivaX said:

In all honestly does the 'banning' of one word actually affect your freedom of speech

Yes actually it does.

 

2 hours ago, ReivaX said:

 

And because it's against GFL policy

i think the policy should be changed

and there are other GFL servers where you can say it.

2 hours ago, ReivaX said:

Then you can suggest it in this handy ze thread that the admins will look over and consider. 

im not using google forms because the admins don't like discussions.

That takes away the chance for criticism and feedback and I have to use a shitty botnet too.

31 minutes ago, Chewie2k said:

Lets just not fight over  abt saying the n word on the server and just follow the rules, would be much appreciated , Thank you.

We're debating whether the rules should be changed, the rules can be outdated, bad or just straight up retarded and that is one reason why the forums exist, to debate and suggest things like rule changes.

[Snowy 837 / 11,431]

🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨

 

The "Anti-Fun police" has arrived.

 

 

This thread will now be locked. (wow, who knew?) 

 

A lot of points have been made. But now, it's just people bickering back and forth.

 

If you have any further feedback, please use the form: >> HERE << 

 

 

edgy

Edited January 28, 2019 by xSnowyAngel