Problems with the incoming server

[LilyShiro 54 / 1,421]

Hiya. I'm a long-time Gmod player who has played a lot of DarkRP and TTT since the beginning, starting around 2009 or so and has a lot of worries about the current rule list and so on.

 

To start off, I wanted to point out that I have thousands of hours in Gmod, gmod development, coding in general, and server administration in various forms. I am not new to the rodeo and before gmod, I also have 5000+ hours in CS:S from 2004->2009. Source communities are basically what I've been around my entire life, and I strongly feel like I understand how things work when it comes to these kinda things.

 

• Recognizing issue #1 -- The Genericness.
  • The first thing I feel when reading the rule list is that it has absolutely no differentiation from any other DarkRP server. Superior, IceFuse, InsertLargeStupidCommunityHere. The rule list looks almost the exact same in every way, and thats an issue. Why is it an issue you ask? I'm not saying "having the same rules is bad", I'm saying that 99% of servers have bad rules with garbage admins, and if you have the same rules, then they're most likely just as bad. It's hard to explain further than "history repeats itself" and I'm getting some incredibly strong dejavu reading this rule list.

 

• Issue #2 -- Using rules that one does not understand.
  • A lot of the rules on DarkRP servers exist solely because when a new server pops up, they decide "Man, that server sucks! Im going to make MY OWN!" and then they proceed to copy and paste the rule list from their favorite darkRP server, without even thinking about why said rule is a rule. What could I ever mean by this?

 

Let us take this rule as prime example #1.

 

• You must type "/advert (action)" before performing a raid/mug/carjack/kidnap, and type "/advert (action) over" as it ends. Multi-adverts, like "Raid / Mug / Kidnap / Raid Assist / Party Raid / PD Raid / Raid Over," are not allowed. If not, this is considered FailRP

 

I see this rule all the time on DarkRP servers and it's a major concern, because I know exactly where this rule came from -- years ago. This rule was created by a DarkRP community at least 5~ years ago because their server was so big that they were struggling to solve RDM cases. The reason for this is that there was, at the time, no bLogs or any other darkRP logging utility that tells you exactly who killed who, at what time, that was accessible to any admin. So, to combat this problem, they implemented the rule that you must advertise what you are doing that might cause someone to die. Why? Because chat has timestamps, and now the mods, previously with no way of figuring out how to solve the case, now has timestamps to correlate with deaths (They cannot see when someone died, but they could see if it happened before or after "/advert raid!". No, this rule was not created "so you could see when you're being raided". That is stupid, and pointless. Why would you globally advertise your presence? That goes against RP, and is absolutely completely not beneficial.

 

So, it's been years now, and seemingly, somehow, every single community has this rule? Why? The reason for this rule was because of lack of proper lua addons, and it's been 5 years. We have the addons now to solve this problem, therefore the rule is completely useless ... Yet DarkRP servers keep using this fucking rule. So what does this tell us? It tells us that people are implementing rules without even understanding why they exist, whats the point, and so forth. It's really troubling, and is a really bad sign for any server. This is a rule that just should not exist on any server, yet it still somehow manages to propagate everywhere.

 

Rule example #2

• "You may not go back to the area you were killed until the rp situation is over"
• "NLR has no official time-limit. NLR lasts until the situation ends"

 

I understand why NLR exists, and why some servers implement it. This is a rule that is understandably logical but is unfortunately, 99% of the time, just an awful thing to implement. A vast majority of NLR implementations are created specifically so people who have 5000000 guns, do not show up 25 seconds later and start shooting again. It is extremely difficult to take a base from someone who is rich -- NLR is to prevent these people. Which, generally, is an awful way to solve this type of problem. This situation is created *directly* as a result of poor economy management and making guns extremely, freely available. Most servers that have this rule make it take less than 20 minutes to get enough cash to buy 640 M249's. It's really not that surprising that everyone becomes an impenetrable as a result.

 

This type of rule is completely unnecessary if the server properly mitigates the need for it -- with a proper economy, not making people being able to donate for 60000 weapons and 500 base HP. RP happens 50%+ around someone's base. By preventing them from simply going to their house after dying, or even the general public if they got shot in the street, you simply frustrate the player and cause them to get pissed. The amount of people that either don't listen to NLR or abuse it also shows this rule is probably the most disregarded, useless rule in all DarkRP servers.

 

 

• Issue #3 -- Rules that are so vague that it makes no sense.
  • A lot of rules are made so vague that it is obvious where it is going to head already, just by simply reading this. I understand specific rules are bad, as that allows loop-holing, but the level of vagueness should be considered because an admin, in general, is a teenager and has very little understanding of how to actually administrate a server. Lets look at some rule examples in the meantime.
    • " Do not metagame which is the act of using OOC, Discord, TeamSpeak, or any other out of game platform information to benefit yourself in an RP situation. "
  • I understand the context of this rule, and why it exists, but the way it is worded means admins will almost certainly go out of their way to apply it to people they do not like. No one disagrees that someone who gives out PD passcode and etc is ooc is being an ass, but this rule will be applied to people who are talking in discord together and playing together. No friends are going to use in-game chat to communicate, its worse than discord and just... No one is going to do that. In game voice sucks.

 

• Issue #4 -- Creating situations no one wants to be in.
  • Let's face it. Kidnapping is frankly the dumbest thing I have ever seen added to a DarkRP server and I have never in my entire life met someone who actually enjoys this type of roleplay. Who the heck wants to sit AFK in a gmod server for 10 minutes  because the rules state you can kidnap them for that long? No one will abide, No one likes it, and frankly, its unenforceable. You're not going to ban someone for "losing connection" to their internet when kidnapped, are you?
  • KOS signs -- The happiness of any little child who loves to RDM. I have never seen this rule used properly. Anytime someone has a KOS sign, 99% of the time they will gun you down the instant you step on their sidewalk within 5 miles. It benefits no one, and it's fairly obvious if someone is attempting to raid you anyways. What is the benefit? To prevent people from getting too close? If someone is at your front door with a keypad cracker, you can already kill them in any RP situation anyways. What the hell is the point of the KOS sign then?

 

 

Conclusion:

Frankly, I could write a research paper on every weird, bad rule that exists in DarkRP and this would only be the first page. There is so many other rules that have no thought put into them and simply cause grief and more admin problems than useful. Cars, basing, mugging, PD rules. The list goes on. There is still so many examples I can go through, but I already wrote a good amount of analysis on a few big problems. I have been through countless DarkRP servers and I know what causes them to fail or rise -- and I am almost certain that this server will go on to fail if the rule list stays like this. Rest assured, I do not mean fail as in "no one will play", I'm absolutely certain the server will get a sizeable playerbase regardless of the rules, but, the playerbase will be dumb children and mostly immature people. It won't be a good server, and it'll be put into the list of "garbage staff and garbage server" where almost every other DarkRP belongs.

 

 

Please think these things through and consider other methods of solving them. A lot of the things I mentioned can be solved programmatically, through game mechanics, or simply just proper implementation. I also would like to make certain that I have no disrespect towards anyone or am trying to insult. This post was made because I sincerely would like to prevent a server from stifling itself, and it's me extending a helping hand. I could always expand and explain any point or any other rule if you'd like me to, simply reply and I'll gladly explain to anyone.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by LilyShiro

[_Rocket_ 656 / 8,277]

We appreciate the concern you have for the server. Seriously, we do. But I would have liked it if you contacted me or mejilla privately first to discuss these things. Since this server is still under works, there is bound to be some rough edges that are yet to be smoothed out. The rules that are currently displayed in the MOTD belongs in the "rough edge" category.

 

Right now our main priority is getting the server started up and running smoothly. We also need to add all the different features and things to make the server functional and fun for all players. The rules are not currently a priority, and will not be a priority until we begin considering making the server public.

 

If you have any suggestions, we will be glad to hear them. But we would like it if you kept these suggestions down somewhere for a future time. That way, when we do begin working on the MOTD you can provide any suggestions you thought up.

 

Thanks for your concern. We appreciate it. And don't worry, everything will turn out just fine haha. Hope your day is going well.

Edited November 26, 2019 by _Rocket_

[LilyShiro 54 / 1,421]

Thanks for the replies. I posted it here since I did not really consider private DMing to be a usable method -- I don't personally know either of you nor have I been taken seriously in DMs in the past when I've raised concerns like this (In other places).

 

Apologies if it felt like a call-out, as that was not the intention. I raised this concern in another community nearly a year ago because they made a lot of the same repeated mistakes as other communities and they simply replied "Dont worry, we know what we're doing."

 

Well, this is them after 4 months. https://www.xenflux.net

 

nuff said

[Nap14hockey 1,244 / 17,875]

^ Me after finding out this is happening again.

Please.  Just no.

 

[Lemon 163 / 4,972]

On 11/27/2019 at 6:15 PM, Nap14hockey said:

^ Me after finding out this is happening again.

Please.  Just no.

 

I thought you were gone for good, Jesus.

[Winter 1,707 / 25,782]

2 minutes ago, Lemon said:

I thought you were gone for good, Jesus.

I thought you were gone for good, Lemon.

[Lemon 163 / 4,972]

Just now, Winter said:

I thought you were gone for good, Lemon.

There's no escaping GFL.

[im not inactive you are 888 / 16,340]

I'd love to comment on this by saying a couple things:

A lot of the rules that you have an issue with I've gone ahead and re-worded/removed. I personally don't like a DarkRP server to be on the rule-heavy side, mainly because it's DarkRP and there's meant to be at least a little chaos.

 

A lot of the rules have changed. I haven't made the change on forums for the MOTD & rules yet, because it's still a work in progress, but there are certain things that will be different. 

 

As for KOS signs, I've gone ahead and added claiming to the list of rules, just because it's something so common & people already do it, there's no reason for it not to be implemented. KOS Signs will be able to kos for loitering in front of the base, keypad crackers out on sidewalk, lockpicks out on sidewalk, and past the like kos'es. KOS for mic spamming and being a nuisance, and just generally things to make the server a tiny bit more chaotic, make it a real DarkRP server.

 

Also different rules about basing, no more double stacked doors, as that was a huge deterrent for people raiding, and made the bases impossible to raid. Same thing with one-way props, it just makes it impossible for the raider to see where to shoot when the person inside the base has full knowledge where the raider is and can kill them without having a chance at death. So one-way props are also not allowed. I also added some crazy new rules to maybe improve bases & creativity, like building above structures, and attached to structures, though no free-standing bases (as in, no skybases, or bases you need a ladder to get up to)

 

The rules are basically going to revolve around giving everyone a fair chance at raiding/defending their base. Still thinking about keeping an NLR rule or not, I like the idea of a base owner going back to their base and defending it 1 or 2 times before it counts towards the NLR rule.

 

I have this all in a google doc. If you'd like I can link it to you and you can read through it.

Edited January 14, 2020 by TheSadBandit

[Dracik 1 / 372]

I have been playing DarkRP since at least 2011 and I can say for certain that back then it was a way better experience than todays version of DarkRP. Todays version of DarkRP is literally a shell of what it used to be. I'm gonna make some suggestions and I hope to see some implemented if its possible.

 

1. No cars. No clue why they were ever implemented in the first place. No map is big enough for them and they lag like crazy.

 

2. Please choose a different map. Downtown_tits is so overplayed and literally every server runs it. Why not just run one of the OG downtown versions? Downtown_tits is absolutely enormous for no reason.

 

3. Prevent the creation of useless jobs. Servers are bloated with jobs that never have people using them and just making a mess of the F4 menu. All jobs should serve a purpose and there should be good incentives with jobs other than thief and hitman.

 

4. Give bigger incentives for being a cop and being a vendor. People should WANT to be these jobs so it creates an even playing field for the whole server. It gets super annoying when there is 20 thieves and 0 law enforcement.

 

5. Avoid money making abuse mechanics (gambling, bitcoin mining, etc.). Money should be mainly made through buying and selling goods and services. Money should be very hard to come by.

 

6. Dont give any job grappling hooks and jump SWEPs. Anything that could allow someone to just go right into someones base from the top. Completely destroys immersion.

 

Just please keep things as OG to old DarkRP as possible please!! This server will be so amazing with the least amount of mods possible.

[Bae 2,489 / 41,520]

We only have default jobs, no fancy jobs like the ones in other darkrp. Since those servers are pay to win, so you pay to create a special job. We don't do that here. Most people play cops just to either kill or arrest for no reason because it has something other jobs can't do without having to pay for the item. We used to have gambling system but it was removed during the Purge time. It was very useless class. We don't have any sweps either because we don't have any jobs that requires you to have it. Usually parkour sweps are for servers that requires them. Like a superhero RP which those do exist. But the reason why other community have it is because as I said, it's a pay to win.