Change Server Settings "Discussion" -Edited for the better?

[foreX 36 / 2,564]

TL;DR: Try testing this. Increase starting zombie HP to 12k. Decrease late round zombie and respawn HP to 7k or 8k. increase nade duration by 1 second (keep 1 buy + zmarket),

I think it's time to adjust some parameters to increase the win rate for the ZE server. The noobs/quality of players are always going to be an issue, but I'd argue the server settings that have been in place since I first joined 19+ months ago are another big factor. The excuse "lol ur bad. get good noob" is not the only reason. The win% for events is too low and win% for a difficult "follow the leader" map without items is too low. An example map is frostdrake. The server is beating it less than 1% of attempts. These 3 suggestions should result in a SLIGHT increased FD W% to a healthier 3% or 4%. GFL should more capably beat other difficult maps a few more times every few months with a worthy team.

1. Continue allowing purchase of two HE nades (1 buy + zmarket). Increase burn duration for HE grenade by another 1 or 2 seconds.

Q. Why?

A. If 40 nades are thrown and the duration is increased by 1 second that's POTENTIALLY 40 seconds of defense time added. A bhopping zombie (like myself and those much better) still won't be slowed much, but now there's a higher chance they can be cornered and killed if they aren't starting zombie if both things below are implemented.

 

2. Keep or increase mother zombie/starting zombie HP to >=10,000 HP.

Q. Why?

A. Keep starting zombie tanky. (good suggestion).

3. Lower late infected and respawn zombie HP to somewhere around ~7000 as a starting point. Adjust that value as needed. 

Q. Why?

A. Stop giving people who don't listen and trolls that purposefully become zombies the reward to become bhopping immortal tanks. A difference of ~3000HP is a big deal, but not enough to negate the biggest importance to slow zombies. I think this is the most important thing to try.

 

None of this should require new plugins or rework on a lot of code. One good grenade or one timely kill can make all the difference in core CSGO. Make this SLIGHTLY more frequent on the ZE server and it could make all the difference on some occasions. Killing a zombie buys more time for defense than knock-back. This should be obvious. It should remain difficult, but not AS DIFFICULT as it is against regular zombies. All the sh*t aim will not lead to late round zombies being "mowed down" from ~7000HP. Adjust things after reviewing effectiveness over time. If the intent is to prevent ALL ZMs from ever being killed then raise the HP to 50000HP and zmarket start everyone a bizon so everyone gets the point. 

 

I think these changes will make good players that die SLIGHTLY less impactful and new players that live slightly more impactful. It'll keep starting zombies effective and gives less incentive to become late round zombie. As posted below it should SLIGHTLY help numerous issues overall: win %, trollers, bhoppers. Good players that start on both sides are rewarded, and over time you should see a FEW more hard-earned wins and the server should still be A+ difficulty. 

 

 

 

Thanks for feedback (everyone?). I edited this post to be more concise. Here's screenshot of original drunken sh*tpost

 

 

#pF #MakeGFLGreatAgain

 

Edited October 16, 2016 by foreX
for saddism, wording, less drunk, -douch*y words, +douch*y picture, speaky better english

[foreX 36 / 2,564]

The HLStats aren't as accurate anymore, but I've been keeping track the past few days with screenshots and spreadsheets (hi Fidler). I can post results, but this example below is what I'm getting at. 

 

AFAIK, Frostdrake has been beaten ~13 times by GFL. It was released two years ago. Assuming that map has been played on GFL 1.2 times per day (lowballing) yields a .0148 chance of victory which means the server is likely to beat the map on 5.5 days out of the year. I'm not accounting for the times it was beaten multiple times in one day/session. That's 359.5 days of failure and that's godawful. It's not THAT difficult of a map. I think it's a quality difficult map that can serve as a gauge. The average number of days at this point should should be trending towards 20 by now with a >4% win rate. Right now I'm tracking humans being killed 99.9% of the time like we're germs in a hand santizer ad. That's discouraging AF to both new and old players.
 

I know only a couple people can do anything about this, so don't take my snarky remarks to the heart because this is from my heart to yours. <3

 

I'll pre-fill my ban appeal now.

Edited October 13, 2016 by foreX

[Vinz 81 / 3,187]

increase duration nade is good for me but the reason we so many fail because many people die for no reason liked failed to jump/afk/edge . so actualy increase nade duration and maks hp zombie 6000, i think will no big different system ze GFL right now. just my opinion

[Coolest Cat 1,266 / 14,449]

Eh.

 

I feel like the zombie HP should be left where it is. And grenade duration can be increased by .5 or 1 second. 

[usingxbox360controller 9 / 2,334]

Your entire argument relies on incomplete "As far as you know" data. Unless we see complete server spreadsheets and not some guy's personal tally, those numbers are meaningless. 

 

On top of that, how scrutinized is your data-set? Do you have filters for attempts under 30 players for example? What if, under current conditions, we already are at the 4-5% completion rate WITH A FULL server?

 

Additionally, what is the reasoning that being "dead" will even effect a player? Most maps include teleport fairly close to the front lines anyways, for the few additional zombies that end up dieing. 

 

I personally enjoy seeing the difficulty of these maps. It makes its victory MUCH sweeter and ensures it to be a full complete challenge. I think were fine with a few maps being insanely difficult as it requires everyone to be on their game and truly brings the server together when finished. 

[Vauff 872 / 14,027]

I'd be alright with making the grenades last a bit longer, but I don't think that decreasing the zombie HP to 6500 will have the effect that you want it to have. How often are you getting zombies down to 3500 HP from 10000? Because that's what it would take to kill a zombie in the system you've described. Besides that, is ZE really centered around killing the zombies? I've always found personally that it's more just about shooting to keep them back then actually killing them. Plus, I really don't think the problem with us losing maps like we do is down to zombie HP...

[foreX 36 / 2,564]

8 hours ago, Vinz said:

increase duration nade is good for me but the reason we so many fail because many people die for no reason liked failed to jump/afk/edge . so actualy increase nade duration and maks hp zombie 6000, i think will no big different system ze GFL right now. just my opinion

 

4 hours ago, Major_Push said:

Eh.

 

I feel like the zombie HP should be left where it is. And grenade duration can be increased by .5 or 1 second. 

 

Thanks for the feedback. 

 

If people edge, go wrong way, or don't defend the team will still lose. My suggestions on lowering HP would not make anything easy. If you really wanted to imbalance things to make it more favorable for humans I would've suggested increasing knock-back on zombies and lowering their HP to less than 4500. There are servers out there like that already. I'm trying to suggest changes that keep the spirit of the gameplay style that has been on GFL since I first played here.

 

It's not anecdotal that GFL's ZE server is the #1 CS GO server. It's not anecdotal that the next two most popular ZE servers complete maps more often. It's not because they ALWAYS have better players because there's a high crossover of "good" players from those servers in addition to our regular "good" players and admins. The one setting that glaringly stands out is not spawns, nade duration, freeze nades, or players it's the starting zombie HP. GFL has the highest starting HP for CSGO ZE and it's not even close. 

The old CSS server that shall not be named has a starting HP of 7500, Mapedores and Possession have nearly half the starting HP of GFL. If a single zombie jumps into the cage on Halloween or the boxes at the top of the tower before the boss fight on Frostdrake they are more often mowed down by 15+ humans and sent to the back of the line on those servers because zombies have 50-65% less HP. On GFL, you spend 10 seconds shooting them down to 2000 HP and by that time other zombies have the chance to jump in and knife everyone because so many defenders had to aim somewhere else for an extended time. 

 

There are also parts of several difficult maps that are just more difficult than (probably) intended because of the high HP when compared to other servers. If you play ze_santassination_vX and get to the Truth stage the rockets are under-powered compared to other servers because the HP is much higher. Obviously, there are other examples of areas on maps too. The boss HP used to be an issue on certain maps and I argue the zombie HP is also an issue on every map that needs SLIGHT tweaking.

 

Plugin settings have been changed many times for performance reasons why not change this to see how the server performs? A starting HP of 6500 would still be the highest on CSGO, but adjust it to 7500 like the old CSS server. To keep it where it is because it's always been that way is poor bias. 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2016 by foreX
for grammar & typos

[Ben 2,373 / 30,802]

10 hours ago, foreX said:

Zombie HP:
10000 HP is too much for a server that averages over 50+ players. You have 6.5+ zombies spawning at the beginning, and 8+ zombies when the ~62 slot lag box is full. There's also a high chance one of them will be a "key" player bhopping towards defenders and "stupid noobs". IDC that they're bhopping. What bothers me is when they're trapped in a corner and they take over 3000 damage and they're not even close to being halfway dead. I might as well bhop to some off -angle adjacent corner to force you to aim at me. I feel no risk because it'll take you forever to do significant damage and 99.99% of the time other zombies will catch up before I die and force you to fall back.

I find Zombie HP to be fine at this state. I got killed by human with bizon while he was defending. I like the idea of increasing nade duration, it should be up to at least .5 or 1 second duration.

[DarkHeroz 93 / 3,517]

3 minutes ago, foreX said:

There are servers out there like that already

This is why it make GFL special, i have play other server and beat a lot of maps which i haven't beaten it in GFL because it's harder. But i like it, i want to try hard. My recommend is not to play on cancer time when a lot of  troller always ruin the game.

 

8 minutes ago, foreX said:

Frostdrake they are more often mowed down by 15+ humans on those servers because zombies have 50-65% less HP. On GFL, you spend 10 seconds shooting them down to 2000 HP and by that time other zombies have the chance to jump in and knife everyone because so many defenders had to aim somewhere else for an extended time. 

Boss fight is where zombie have to jump on the pillars to get across, you don't need low HP to defend, just knock them off.

[Coolest Cat 1,266 / 14,449]

44 minutes ago, foreX said:

 

 

Thanks for the feedback. 

 

If people edge, go wrong way, or don't defend the team will still lose. My suggestions on lowering HP would not make anything easy. If you really wanted to imbalance things to make it more favorable for humans I would've suggested increasing knock-back on zombies and lowering their HP to less than 4500. There are servers out there like that already. I'm trying to suggest changes that keep the spirit of the gameplay style that has been on GFL since I first played here.

 

It's not anecdotal that GFL's ZE server is the #1 CS GO server. It's not anecdotal that the next two most popular ZE servers complete maps more often. It's not because they ALWAYS have better players because there's a high crossover of "good" players from those servers in addition to our regular "good" players and admins. The one setting that glaringly stands out is not spawns, nade duration, freeze nades, or players it's the starting zombie HP. GFL has the highest starting HP for CSGO ZE and it's not even close. 

The old CSS server that shall not be named has a starting HP of 7500, Mapedores and Possession have nearly half the starting HP of GFL. If a single zombie jumps into the cage on Halloween or the boxes at the top of the tower before the boss fight on Frostdrake they are more often mowed down by 15+ humans and sent to the back of the line on those servers because zombies have 50-65% less HP. On GFL, you spend 10 seconds shooting them down to 2000 HP and by that time other zombies have the chance to jump in and knife everyone because so many defenders had to aim somewhere else for an extended time. 

 

There are also parts of several difficult maps that are just more difficult than (probably) intended because of the high HP when compared to other servers. If you play ze_santassination_vX and get to the Truth stage the rockets are under-powered compared to other servers because the HP is much higher. Obviously, there are other examples of areas on maps too. The boss HP used to be an issue on certain maps and I argue the zombie HP is also an issue on every map that needs SLIGHT tweaking.

 

Plugin settings have been changed many times for performance reasons why not change this to see how the server performs? A starting HP of 6500 would still be the highest on CSGO, but adjust it to 7500 like the old CSS server. To keep it where it is because it's always been that way is poor bias. 

 

 

 

You're not accounting for 1 thing. That's that we're, as you said, the #1 CSGO server.

 

If anyone opens up the community browser, they're going to see our server at the top so they're going to join it regardless if they're pros or not. GFL gets packed because it has a bunch of new players as well as the regulars/pros. Those randoms really pull down the rest of the team by door hugging, dying at bosses, missing jumps, etc. etc.

 

Zombie health be damned, the biggest threat to our chances of beating a hard map is the ability of new players to listen to instructions. 

[foreX 36 / 2,564]

@Major_Push.

 

I am accounting for that. I'm not trying to dramatically change the server and bump the win rate for Frostnuts from 1% to beating Frostdrake every other day and making things so easy we're beating UT Convoy every week. I'm talking about slight tweaks that increase the odds of beating Frostdrake to an average of every month from once every two months and yields a better chance at completing santa and other maps. I'm suggesting the settings are adjusted so when there's enough good players on you're not getting cheesed because one of those "good" players is a virtually immortal zombie that is bhopping their way towards you and eventually causes everyone to fail without risk of respawning. These adjustments would net the same win you would've earned on other servers and it would still be more difficult to earn on those servers.

 

Random "noobs" are an issue on other servers. Some of those randoms connect to GFL because of ping or because it's an English speaking server. Some of them don't know how to play but are willing to listen and could become future regulars that buy VIP and support the server. We all started at some point. I've seen "newer" players that have been on the server server for months ask on voice chat if we've ever beaten Frostdrake. I've been there for over 90% of those Frostdrake wins, and even I cringe inside of sadness when people ask that. How many of them are discouraged by a 99% failure rate? There is a difference between 95-96% and 99%. Don't discount the math and assume there's no difference. I won't apologize for settling for the status quo.

 

I would love to hear a counter-argument for why the starting HP on GFL is ~100% than higher than everywhere else in CSGO. Please, don't just use it's always been 10000HP so there's no need to change it. I appreciate most of you have agreed with the burn duration, but give me a justification that the HP is not just a randomly selected round number that was initially used and hasn't been changed since.

Edited October 14, 2016 by foreX

[Block 281 / 5,470]

Starting zombie HP is fine but I think if any HP change should happen, it should be the respawn HP. After your first death as a zombie, you respawn with 5000. I almost immediately get killed again when tryharding. There is no chance for me to get to the humans.

 

Nade duration should be improved by .5 seconds at most, it's still rather high on this server compared to others.

 

Although what I recommend is something the source server started doing: extra ammo per clip for some guns. If the Bizon and P90 are favored guns because they're lighter and have a larger amount of ammo than others, we should add extra ammo to different guns to bring them closer to it. The mp5 for example used to be the most used gun on a couple source servers back in the day because it had extra ammo.

[Shiki 54 / 2,969]

Starting zombie HP is totally fine by me ( example for Possession, zombie HP is 5000, in some maps 3000, making it too ez for human ). Killed human/new zombie HP should start at 5000 to be balanced though, I have seen new zombies with HP starting from 7000 to 9000 HP already. And god damn it Delta fix the Xenomorph skin's HP, many people said it was over 10000.

 

The reason GFL is the best server is because it is one of the hardest server to play on due to almost no other nades support ( only HE, no Freeze smoke or Molly ), freaking ez bhop and the number of new players everyday. Nade duration can be improved for better or worse, I don't think it's gonna make a difference.

 

Frostdrake is a long map, let's take a look at another short but hard map: Hidden temple - only beaten once and it was v1_8 with a random team.We play this map almost everyday with me online. Level 1 has serious cliche issues, as in the split doors and gaps on the edge that makes ppl fall down/misjump and fall to the death. At the room with the lever on top after barrel exploding, people always make mistake by going up top while the cage door is to the side of the room ( kudos to Naraka for making that cliche though ) without the guide of pros. Level 2 is 80% a 2-ways defend which is hard to cover without 2 beacons at once, and the teamwork is put to the test after boss as defenders and trigger must work flawlessly with each other.

 

3 hours ago, foreX said:

Some of them don't know how to play but are willing to listen and could become future regulars that buy VIP and support the server

MFW Forex described me right in the core

 

3 hours ago, Major_Push said:

Zombie health be damned, the biggest threat to our chances of beating a hard map is the ability of new players to listen to instructions. 

Agree, new players always drag us down somehow. But then again, it's common issues on other servers like Mapeadores as well ( ever seen 0-7 Ze_Gris on Mapeadores ?  )

 

3 hours ago, foreX said:

we're beating UT Convoy every week

Fix the lag at the flaming truck and we are good to go

 

Last word, make tryhard maps only playable with 50+ ppl, I have seen faggots wasted maps like Gris with only 30 ppl and lose 0-4 then rtv it

[Fidler_2k 59 / 2,948]

100 hp zombies, freeze nades, and one starting zombie. ez

[DUSTY 170 / 4,093]

I'm torn. He's right when he says zombies just have to find a corner near a hold point in order to make humans panic and fall back, but I love my zombie tank. =]

 

Let's just max out the nova knockback and call it a day.

[Hydreigon 87 / 3,694]

I quite agree with this thread. There exist multiple problems too.

 

1. 10000 hp is too high even for mzombie and agree to put it at 6500.

2. Bhop is ridiculously easy it's gamebreaking. It's much worse some that some stupid players agree to keep bhop as is (mentioned in my previous thread about bhopping). Not to mention the recent update finally added a sv_enablebunnyhopping cvar. If bhop is at least altered, do mention so. Otherwise, this should have been addressed ever since I first posted that thread about bhopping.

3. Nade duration I think was fine but if everyone wants a slight increase, they can. It's the fact every player essentially has two nades (one at spawn and one via zmarket). If you want you can make it so that you can't rebuy nades midway but increase nade duration even more.

4. There is a reason to have extra ammo for some weapons in csgo (because most smgs have altered mechanics or movement speeds). I do miss the p90 with the 245 velocity making it an invaluable weapon for backpedaling.

5. Any idea if the bad item strafing bug is fixed so most items can now be used properly?

6. Any idea if the bugs in entwatch are fixed too? I would remove the glitchy hud as well as cooldowns feature buggering up the tag and score. You can still keep the feature that tells who used an item.

7. The idea of restricting tryhard maps for a low playerbase has been done before and it didn't work well before...but being a different playerbase, we can always test that out.

8. Get the rulesofp players to fix the flame lag...as well as a slight nerf on the convoy boss hp. Speaking of maps, someone needs to make skyrim hard again.

9. Last but not least, fix zr where it's impossible to become zombie every (other) round so invaluable players don't end up raging and new players will stop playing.

 

I haven't played csgo for a while mainly because it wouldn't work properly on my current pc. I'm also impressed the fact this server/community is still thriving at a time it'd usually be a very low population. I don't even know if GFL csgo ze at this point is great the fact it rivals source. I hope for valve to iron out all the glitches in source 2 as well as be aware of what the modding community can do...as in don't make updates to ruin mg or ze as well as go way overboard with microtransactions.

[BoostedMonkey 7 / 2,188]

imo it shouldnt be about killing zombies but holding them off, people should learn how to successfully hold off zombies without killing them, if you can hold them off their hp doesnt matter

Edited October 14, 2016 by BoostedMonkey

[whim4life 107 / 3,893]

On 10/14/2016 at 1:38 PM, Hydreigon said:

I quite agree with this thread. There exist multiple problems too.

 

2. Bhop is ridiculously easy it's gamebreaking. It's much worse some that some stupid players agree to keep bhop as is (mentioned in my previous thread about bhopping). Not to mention the recent update finally added a sv_enablebunnyhopping cvar. If bhop is at least altered, do mention so. Otherwise, this should have been addressed ever since I first posted that thread about bhopping.

4. There is a reason to have extra ammo for some weapons in csgo (because most smgs have altered mechanics or movement speeds). I do miss the p90 with the 245 velocity making it an invaluable weapon for backpedaling.

5. Any idea if the bad item strafing bug is fixed so most items can now be used properly?

6. Any idea if the bugs in entwatch are fixed too? I would remove the glitchy hud as well as cooldowns feature buggering up the tag and score. You can still keep the feature that tells who used an item.

8. Get the rulesofp players to fix the flame lag...as well as a slight nerf on the convoy boss hp. Speaking of maps, someone needs to make skyrim hard again.

9. Last but not least, fix zr where it's impossible to become zombie every (other) round so invaluable players don't end up raging and new players will stop playing.

 

*nods approval for good points in this thread*

 

Except for 6 about skyrim. Maybe we need to try to beat the v5_4 again?

Edited October 15, 2016 by whim4life

[Shiki 54 / 2,969]

Put a button entwatch plugin into the server, let people play negative legacy please

Also put anti-edge plugin to prevent inflating too

Edited October 15, 2016 by Shiki

[foreX 36 / 2,564]

I'm going to bring things in-line with feedback I've gotten here and other discussions.

 

1. Increase burn duration for HE grenade by 1 second. 

2. Keep mother zombie/starting zombie HP at 10,000 HP. Hell, raise it to 12,000 or 15,000. Keep starting zombie as tanky as you want. Whatever.

3. Lower late infected and respawn zombie HP to somewhere around ~6500 as a starting point. Adjust that value as needed, but stop giving people who don't listen and trolls that purposefully become zombies the reward of bhopping immortal tanks. 

 

None of this should require new plugins or rework on a lot of code. One good grenade or one timely kill can make all the difference in core CSGO. Make this SLIGHTLY more frequent on the ZE server and it could make all the difference on some occasions. Killing a zombie is way more valuable to defense than knockback. This should be obvious. It should remain difficult, but not some rare achievement against regular zombies. This also buffs the effectiveness of other weapons besides the bizon. If the intent is to prevent ZMs from ever being killed then raise the HP to 50000HP and zmarket start everyone a bizon so everyone gets the point. Meanwhile, look at the top two maps where we were getting all our kills.

 

 

Because GFL's ZE server loses so much even when there's a lot of good players it puts off those good players and puts off the casual trying their best to win. Instead, it breeds the ever-negative player that RTV's any slightly difficult map because they know the history of losing. Good players and casuals that join to play that map get screwed because everyone gives up and no one extends. We play ATIX more because if you're going to lose all the time it may as well be in ridiculous fashion.

 

I think it's worth trying some changes to server settings instead of changes to the map pool. Any solutions that don't require 25 players with 1000+ hours in ZE to barely beat TESV on GFL are appreciated. It didn't feel that sweet it took so long for me on GFL.

 

That's all I have about this.

 

#MakeGFLGreatAgain

 

Edited October 16, 2016 by foreX
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