What Would You Change?

[Kettermelon 136 / 4,927]

If you could change the MOTD, how would you? What would you add/clarify/remove? 
As a general rule, please take this seriously and dont start shit, this is ment to get peoples opinions on what should be changed about the MOTD. Also contain the argueing to a minimum.

 

 

Make sure to clarify the rule you are changing/clarifying and where to move/add it.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Kettermelon

[Waylon Smithers 267 / 3,849]

Cut down greatly on bureaucracy, leave more things up to admin discretion based on context and not as strict guidelines.

Slightly change on what content is considered 'nsfw.'

[Paul. 44 / 1,445]

Before I start, I'm aware that many of these things have been discussed already and some people are totally against these changes. I won't pretend like I know everything but I have been playing TTT for the better part of 8 years and I have seen what works and what doesn't over that time. I firmly believe these changes would be good for the server.

 

1) Remove the camping rule for INNOCENTS only.

 

Traitors job is to kill all of the innocents, Detectives job is to stop the traitors and the Innocents job is to survive. Traitors get access to a bunch of weapons/items that can help them kill camping innocents. 

 

Innocents should be allowed to hide in a room and wait for death/wait out the timer. There is a reason the innocents win if the timer hits 0, having a no camping rule enforced on innocents is bad for gameplay.

 

If you are concerned about round time then lower the starting round time, don't force innocents to run around and fight against a Traitor who has all the item advantages anyway. 

 

The no camping rule should still apply to Traitors and Detectives. 

 

2) Force Testing should never be allowed. 

 

While I'm happy that force testing is limited to overtime I still believe it should be removed entirely. Traitor testers in general are so bad for gameplay. When it gets to overtime the detective no longer has to do any actual detective work/thinking, they can just drop a tester and order everyone to start testing or kos. This is bad for the gameplay and honestly I would like to see the portable tester removed entirely but I don't see that happening. (The only way I would be able to accept the portable tester/force testing rule is if the fake tester was added in for balance) 

 

3) Discombobs should only be KOS if there is the potential for damage.

 

This one has been discussed a lot recently and I've been made aware that it was previously tested and reverted. However I do no think people are actually understanding my proposed change.

 

If you throw a discombob and it explodes in an area where it can push someone off a ledge/roof/trap/into a pile of props then by definition the discombob can cause harm and is kosable. 

 

If you throw a discombob at someone on flat ground/in a room with no props/ in a corridor with no props or traps then it cannot cause a single point of damage and should not be kosable. 

 

An example was given in discord of the houses on mc_nuketown, the claim was made "if you throw a discombob on the upper floor inside the house it can knock someone off the roof but the discombob isnt near a ledge."

 

My response to that is simple, if the discombob is close enough to knock someone off a ledge, its near the ledge. It doesn't matter if you can SEE the ledge. If you can't see the ledge and don't know if someone is there, don't throw the discombob. 

 

4) Relax the rules on what is considered KOSable in overtime.

 

It seems like a lot of the opposition to any proposed changes I have spoken about in the past is "That would increase round times!", well this is a suggestion to combat that. There are many times where you have a lot of circumstantial evidence that someone is a T,  i.e. they were seen with a confirmed traitor many times, they did not shoot at a called out traitor, they left a room where many people had died but the bodies were moved/burned, and many other situations. 

 

I propose that if you have an actual solid reason to suspect someone is a T but not enough to kos then you should be allowed to kos in overtime. You would not be allowed to kos for no reason and you would not be allowed to just make one up, that would be false kos just as it is now. And before anyone says this would cause rdm it wouldn't. If you have evidence that someone is a T then killing them is by definition NOT rdm. 

 

I'm happy to discuss any of these suggestions here or in discord. Please actually give them some thought and do not just dismiss them out right or simply say "that's just not how it works" and please keep the discussions civil and constructive. 

 

Thank you for reading my wall of text.

 

Paul

[AlphaOwl 307 / 7,583]

I think I’d firstly like to say that verbal warnings on anything in like spam, or some of the banned words (racist ones don’t apply; probably should be gagged instantly for that) should be high encouraged before a gag. I understand many people are supposed to read the server’s rules, but more often than not, they don’t. I think there can be warnings like “Please don’t micspam” or “please don’t use that word” IN CHAT, so that way they are aware of it being written, in comparison to the warning being drowned out by the game or micspam. If it’s blatant micspam of repeated offensive word, gag, cause they clearly know what they’re trying to get themselves into. I think solution would be helpful, because people may be encouraged to play on the server more cause they’re having a blast, and they might use one of the no no words unconsciously thinking, get gagged, and feel like they’re not allowed to have fun. I know the gag is supposed to be the warning, but to many, it feels like the prison sentence.

 

As a personal message to the admins, I think you guys are doing a great job. Obviously it’s a tough job, but you guys are doing what’s by the book. But I think we need to amend the book to make the guidelines a little more up to discretion, and to encourage more folks that if you don’t slip up here and there, you’re welcome to our community.

 

Now to the players: we need to get rid of cliques. It is quite evident to me that some players have a distaste for others, and vice versa. Whether that be not following the rules, or one incident that snowballed into targeting and BM. This effect spreads as more of their friends know, and it just turns into what seems like a gang war. We all have to accept each other for who we are, come to terms with each other, and not force our perspectives of a person onto another. I tend to stay neutrally positive with everyone no matter what, and although I have had a few conflicts, I have come to terms with those people. For instance, I may not have the cleanest past with Bloopers, started faithfully when I killed him for killing a T cause it looked like he was sniping. From then on he was at my throat, and I disliked him for that. But I came to realize there’s only so much he could do (literally), and thus any BM he sends my way, I take it nonchalantly. People have to grow as their own players, and just because it may not be the way you play the game, it’s how they play. They’ll be punished if they need to be, it’s not your job to continue to scrutinize them if you do. 
 

I guess this change in a more present clique can be seen more recently, as the server’s dynamic has shifted. Rulings have been tougher, old regulars aren’t on as much during the summer, and thus the tonal shift of the server experience had changed. People still have fun, but I’ve noticed a lot more people being more serious or toxic to each other, in comparison to the laughing moments back in the summer. But who cares? Everyone should be welcomed anyways, and accepted for who they are.

 

So on that note, although this thread would most likely be looked at by admins, I do hope the Rotation community player base  takes a look, and thus we can all grow together. 
 

-CEO of GFL TTT AlphaOwl

[Alexis 578 / 12,012]

1 hour ago, AlphaOwl said:

I think I’d firstly like to say that verbal warnings on anything in like spam, or some of the banned words (racist ones don’t apply; probably should be gagged instantly for that) should be high encouraged before a gag. I understand many people are supposed to read the server’s rules, but more often than not, they don’t. I think there can be warnings like “Please don’t micspam” or “please don’t use that word” IN CHAT, so that way they are aware of it being written, in comparison to the warning being drowned out by the game or micspam. If it’s blatant micspam of repeated offensive word, gag, cause they clearly know what they’re trying to get themselves into. I think solution would be helpful, because people may be encouraged to play on the server more cause they’re having a blast, and they might use one of the no no words unconsciously thinking, get gagged, and feel like they’re not allowed to have fun. I know the gag is supposed to be the warning, but to many, it feels like the prison sentence.

 

As a personal message to the admins, I think you guys are doing a great job. Obviously it’s a tough job, but you guys are doing what’s by the book. But I think we need to amend the book to make the guidelines a little more up to discretion, and to encourage more folks that if you don’t slip up here and there, you’re welcome to our community.

 

Now to the players: we need to get rid of cliques. It is quite evident to me that some players have a distaste for others, and vice versa. Whether that be not following the rules, or one incident that snowballed into targeting and BM. This effect spreads as more of their friends know, and it just turns into what seems like a gang war. We all have to accept each other for who we are, come to terms with each other, and not force our perspectives of a person onto another. I tend to stay neutrally positive with everyone no matter what, and although I have had a few conflicts, I have come to terms with those people. For instance, I may not have the cleanest past with Bloopers, started faithfully when I killed him for killing a T cause it looked like he was sniping. From then on he was at my throat, and I disliked him for that. But I came to realize there’s only so much he could do (literally), and thus any BM he sends my way, I take it nonchalantly. People have to grow as their own players, and just because it may not be the way you play the game, it’s how they play. They’ll be punished if they need to be, it’s not your job to continue to scrutinize them if you do. 
 

I guess this change in a more present clique can be seen more recently, as the server’s dynamic has shifted. Rulings have been tougher, old regulars aren’t on as much during the summer, and thus the tonal shift of the server experience had changed. People still have fun, but I’ve noticed a lot more people being more serious or toxic to each other, in comparison to the laughing moments back in the summer. But who cares? Everyone should be welcomed anyways, and accepted for who they are.

 

So on that note, although this thread would most likely be looked at by admins, I do hope the Rotation community player base  takes a look, and thus we can all grow together. 
 

-CEO of GFL TTT AlphaOwl

Cliques are nearly impossible to be rid of, nobody will ever step up and say that they're apart of it or not. Also, I'm pretty sure for years certain Managers and other higher ups have tried to cut down on that but it will always be a problem that plaques a lot of communities.

1 hour ago, Paul. said:

Before I start, I'm aware that many of these things have been discussed already and some people are totally against these changes. I won't pretend like I know everything but I have been playing TTT for the better part of 8 years and I have seen what works and what doesn't over that time. I firmly believe these changes would be good for the server.

 

1) Remove the camping rule for INNOCENTS only.

 

Traitors job is to kill all of the innocents, Detectives job is to stop the traitors and the Innocents job is to survive. Traitors get access to a bunch of weapons/items that can help them kill camping innocents. 

 

Innocents should be allowed to hide in a room and wait for death/wait out the timer. There is a reason the innocents win if the timer hits 0, having a no camping rule enforced on innocents is bad for gameplay.

 

If you are concerned about round time then lower the starting round time, don't force innocents to run around and fight against a Traitor who has all the item advantages anyway. 

 

The no camping rule should still apply to Traitors and Detectives. 

 

2) Force Testing should never be allowed. 

 

While I'm happy that force testing is limited to overtime I still believe it should be removed entirely. Traitor testers in general are so bad for gameplay. When it gets to overtime the detective no longer has to do any actual detective work/thinking, they can just drop a tester and order everyone to start testing or kos. This is bad for the gameplay and honestly I would like to see the portable tester removed entirely but I don't see that happening. (The only way I would be able to accept the portable tester/force testing rule is if the fake tester was added in for balance) 

 

3) Discombobs should only be KOS if there is the potential for damage.

 

This one has been discussed a lot recently and I've been made aware that it was previously tested and reverted. However I do no think people are actually understanding my proposed change.

 

If you throw a discombob and it explodes in an area where it can push someone off a ledge/roof/trap/into a pile of props then by definition the discombob can cause harm and is kosable. 

 

If you throw a discombob at someone on flat ground/in a room with no props/ in a corridor with no props or traps then it cannot cause a single point of damage and should not be kosable. 

 

An example was given in discord of the houses on mc_nuketown, the claim was made "if you throw a discombob on the upper floor inside the house it can knock someone off the roof but the discombob isnt near a ledge."

 

My response to that is simple, if the discombob is close enough to knock someone off a ledge, its near the ledge. It doesn't matter if you can SEE the ledge. If you can't see the ledge and don't know if someone is there, don't throw the discombob. 

 

4) Relax the rules on what is considered KOSable in overtime.

 

It seems like a lot of the opposition to any proposed changes I have spoken about in the past is "That would increase round times!", well this is a suggestion to combat that. There are many times where you have a lot of circumstantial evidence that someone is a T,  i.e. they were seen with a confirmed traitor many times, they did not shoot at a called out traitor, they left a room where many people had died but the bodies were moved/burned, and many other situations. 

 

I propose that if you have an actual solid reason to suspect someone is a T but not enough to kos then you should be allowed to kos in overtime. You would not be allowed to kos for no reason and you would not be allowed to just make one up, that would be false kos just as it is now. And before anyone says this would cause rdm it wouldn't. If you have evidence that someone is a T then killing them is by definition NOT rdm. 

 

I'm happy to discuss any of these suggestions here or in discord. Please actually give them some thought and do not just dismiss them out right or simply say "that's just not how it works" and please keep the discussions civil and constructive. 

 

Thank you for reading my wall of text.

 

Paul

Being near a KOSed person is already automatically KOS, if said KOSed player isn't shooting them, then that clearly means they're apart of the same team and would lead to a KOS . I'm just pointing that out, although, I never really agreed to KOSing off Suspicion in OT like that in the first place, as most players could be extremely Suspicious and still be an Innocent afterwards, not everyone pays attention from what I have noticed. There are many instances where Innocents are Suspicious that if we allowed KOS in overtime based on Suspicion, it would drop karma by a lot. 

 

Another thing is the Camping rule, most players really don't like waiting for a 1v1 to finish when one Traitor never bought a radar and the other Innocent is like across the map hidden somewhere and the round literally lasts for minutes. I'm pretty sure it was added to stop that, but I have another feeling it was added to just keep the game flowing, if an Innocent sits in the Traitor room the whole game, it gets extremely boring and predictable, as either the Traitor will know they're in there or they don't, and the game will just last on, or end too quickly, making Traitors who died by the camping Innocent get upset. Having it to where Innocent can camp for a small amount of time but not for the whole game keeps things moving nice and smoothly in my Honest Opinion, but that's just me.

 

Please don't get mad at me, I'm just putting in my opinion, this is not meant to be against anyone or any of their opinions, I'm just putting my opinion in for others opinions on the rules.

 

1 hour ago, Waylon Smithers said:

Cut down greatly on bureaucracy, leave more things up to admin discretion based on context and not as strict guidelines.

Slightly change on what content is considered 'nsfw.'

Also can you elaborate more on this please? I'm dumb, sorry.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Alexis

[Waylon Smithers 267 / 3,849]

2 hours ago, Paul. said:

1) Remove the camping rule for INNOCENTS only.

 

2 hours ago, Paul. said:

2) Force Testing should never be allowed. 

These are just to speed up the game and winning from sitting in a room is lame for all parties involved.

Force testing using the portable tester only gives 3 test per detective. By this time assuming most detectives are dead and the traitors don't fail, that's only 3 guaranteed test. Most decent TTT maps either have a way to destroy the test or create requirements they need to activate the tester. Some even have ways to make traitors proven or make testing ambiguous. Force testing is really only useful later into overtime. But I understand this all ties into your fourth point.

 

 

2 hours ago, Paul. said:

3) Discombobs should only be KOS if there is the potential for damage.

Agreed and was changed on Vanilla.

 

2 hours ago, Paul. said:

4) Relax the rules on what is considered KOSable in overtime.

This is just the old fashioned KOS off sus. The problem with this comes down to players making extremely subjective decisions or just even able to lie and kill as they please as it would be extremely difficult to prove something that occurred at an non-specific timeframe in the round. Not the worst rule I've seen but it's just extremely difficult to have it abused.

 

 

2 hours ago, AlphaOwl said:

think I’d firstly like to say that verbal warnings on anything in like spam, or some of the banned words (racist ones don’t apply; probably should be gagged instantly for that) should be high encouraged before a gag. I understand many people are supposed to read the server’s rules, but more often than not, they don’t. I think there can be warnings like “Please don’t micspam” or “please don’t use that word” IN CHAT, so that way they are aware of it being written, in comparison to the warning being drowned out by the game or micspam. If it’s blatant micspam of repeated offensive word, gag, cause they clearly know what they’re trying to get themselves into. I think solution would be helpful, because people may be encouraged to play on the server more cause they’re having a blast, and they might use one of the no no words unconsciously thinking, get gagged, and feel like they’re not allowed to have fun. I know the gag is supposed to be the warning, but to many, it feels like the prison sentence.

Completely agree and is treated as such on Vanilla.

 

2 hours ago, AlphaOwl said:

Now to the players: we need to get rid of cliques. It is quite evident to me that some players have a distaste for others, and vice versa. Whether that be not following the rules, or one incident that snowballed into targeting and BM.

While I'm sure that'd be nice... that seems kind of impossible seeing as that's just how humans are.

 

Quote

Also can you elaborate more on this please? I'm dumb, sorry.

Just more room for admins to take action at their own discretion.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Waylon Smithers

[Duck. 489 / 0]

4 hours ago, Waylon Smithers said:

5 hours ago, Paul. said:

3) Discombobs should only be KOS if there is the potential for damage.

Agreed and was changed on Vanilla.

Was attempted on here, and it did not go well. For that reason, we aren't touching that rule again.

 

4 hours ago, Waylon Smithers said:

5 hours ago, AlphaOwl said:

think I’d firstly like to say that verbal warnings on anything in like spam, or some of the banned words (racist ones don’t apply; probably should be gagged instantly for that) should be high encouraged before a gag. I understand many people are supposed to read the server’s rules, but more often than not, they don’t. I think there can be warnings like “Please don’t micspam” or “please don’t use that word” IN CHAT, so that way they are aware of it being written, in comparison to the warning being drowned out by the game or micspam. If it’s blatant micspam of repeated offensive word, gag, cause they clearly know what they’re trying to get themselves into. I think solution would be helpful, because people may be encouraged to play on the server more cause they’re having a blast, and they might use one of the no no words unconsciously thinking, get gagged, and feel like they’re not allowed to have fun. I know the gag is supposed to be the warning, but to many, it feels like the prison sentence.

Completely agree and is treated as such on Vanilla.

It should be treated as such on Rotation too, as it's in our guidelines. I, myself, like to PM players that what they're saying isn't allowed or okay to say on the server and to tone it down. I want staff to follow suit.

6 hours ago, Waylon Smithers said:

Slightly change on what content is considered 'nsfw.'

Clarify pls

[Adversary 96 / 2,197]

I feel as though the MOTD does not have all that much impact currently, but rather how people absorb the information that is inside it. 
A bigger problem is how newer staff are trained when it comes to learning the rules and guidelines, there is a clear and large disconnect especially noticeable when you compare certain admins to each other. However I will not name people off, but most of you can with your own experience piece together what I mean.

Too often Admins will approach situations very differently, on one hand, some will be much more forgiving and level-headed, even willing to move past issues they have with a player because it is simply a game and only 1 round. On the other hand, you have some Admins who are extremely keen on punishing people and getting their own justice, even going as far as to loophole and overlook entire situations and instead just picking out a rule that only benefits their case to which they just do what they want to. These types typically will hold grudges against players and I have seen this translate into further issues down the line where neither player nor staff can get along.
These differences are why we look at the MOTD and think it fails us in some way. More than often that is not the case, but rather the different personalities that are not kept in check. People will eventually become super closed-minded if you do not keep them in check, and this can lead to even nice and respectable people being very toxic in-game, and to interact with.

That is what I have noticed is the leading issue.

However keeping it all back on track with the MOTD itself, a new writer is long overdue. It is far too clear that the MOTD has had multiple people edit things from old ones which can be quite unhealthy. The different personalities that can be found inside actually can impact some people differently. A single new writer can provide a lot of positive changes and remove some of the negatives found within the current MOTD. Given they have all the right traits to make it work, of course.
Giving the MOTD a complete overhaul is definitely a fine goal to strive for and I can picture (personally) what I think a great MOTD could look like.