littleshake's General Mute/Ban Appeal

[huntress 49 / 2,677]

Which platform(s) are you appealing?: Discord

Discord/TS3 username (Add your tag and ID if possible):

little_shake#4416

 

Why were you banned?: Back when I left I gave permission to 2 people to @ everyone once. And I was banned I made an appeal and was unbanned but now I realize that I am in fact still banned.

 

Why should you be unbanned?

I used to be admin and I never broke any rules. The tagging @ everyone was just for fun. Also I would love to play again and talk to my old friends and moderators. Hope you consider!

 

[Brotherwolf 326 / 7,218]

HnS Staff didn't really ban you, so it's technically falling to @Ben and/or @Liloz01.

That being said, I think an unban is ok considering that she was banned over a year ago and the fact that a community ban was executed in the first place was a ridiculous overstep imo

[Liloz01 1,256 / 19,840]

Scary that a Senior Admin can think that it is "ridiculous" to ban for a malicious abuse of power, I wish I could find more information on this ban because I remember it being more than just a handing out of @everyone permissions; was it not also 3 unbans, role deletions (such as the muted role) and other role/channel permission changes to make it purposefully hard to undo/handle? I have no doubt in my mind if motorsteak hadn't been there immediately, there would be more to add to this list of what happened.

 

This is just the information I found by looking at chatlogs, the actual ban reason / evidence provided by motosteak is below... it's not much haha. The botlogs in HnS were not working for a very long time, including the time @littleshake had their little "fuck GFL" moment, unfortunately.

I have no decision making power here so good luck with your appeal, but my opinion is that you guys are still majorly under playing how irreverent and malicious of an action this was, leaving out a majority of the detail, but it was a year ago. Meh. 

 

I don't know what happened with your "community unban", but I remember it being handled by @Shuruia when they were Director of Communications who upheld the ban for Discord, but unbanned in-game. Perhaps they could shine some light on this.

[huntress 49 / 2,677]

Hey @Liloz01 that wasn't the case and you seemed to have banned me immediately because I unbanned someone u didn't like just so they could @ everyone. I didn't give anyone any permissions to do anything bad to the server and never have or would, which the past thing I did can attest to.

I  just unbanned 2 people and let them @ everyone and we all had a good laugh in VC and they got kicked and banned again. There for I didn't have malicious intent, my intent was having a laugh and leaving on a funny note. And I didn't even leave like I said you banned me and then said you would not only ban me on discord but everywhere else for that reason. 

Then you resigned a day later.

I didn't delete any roles. 
And it was changed so that one specific new role that yall could delete had permission to @ everyone. So it wasn't a complicated fix. At least I didn't fuck up anything on purpose and was a good admin for 4 years. The only bad thing I did was that.

Which was allowing 2 people so @ everyone so they could be banned again.
Didn't let them do anything else. Nor would have because like I said that was never the intent. So i don't know how you could possibly say my intentions were malicious when you didn't even wanna listen to my side and what I actually did.

Also I am playing again there for that is the reason I wanted to be present on the discord. Otherwise I wouldn't ask. And I remember that a lot of admins said at the time that I shouldn't be banned but you proceeded to do so because I made you mad.
That was the whole story from my perspective.

And I added you trying to explain what happened and ask why you overreacted at me when my intentions weren't evil but you never accepted my request and refused to talk.


Again no evil vibe I am just trying to explain my side of things.

Edit: this was a while ago and that's how I remember it. I don't dislike anyone and it was all fun. I take accountability for what I did and I am sorry it was supposed to be a simple joke, not meant to hurt the server or anyone else.

I think i didn't deserve an in game ban to begin with because it was a discord issue and i have never once broken a rule in game but if we talk about power abuse you did ban me despite any consultation with anyone else on every aspect of the community. Again because i unbanned someone that at the time i had no idea you disliked because i didn't even know you.

I won't be an admin I would just like to talk to people again. That's all.

Edited August 13, 2021 by littleshake

[Brotherwolf 326 / 7,218]

To be clear on this, I don't think the discord ban was an overstep, I thought a community ban was an overstep. All of the things happened over discord and nothing was done in forums or in game, plus all the HnS staff at the time were saying just do a pban from discord.

[Liloz01 1,256 / 19,840]

1 hour ago, littleshake said:

you seemed to have banned me immediately because I unbanned someone u didn't like just so they could @ everyone

I did not ban you on Discord, nor was I even the first to "be on scene" if you'd like to call it that. I banned you everywhere else after motorsteak informed of me the details of what happened, though. Even today, if an admin did something like this, according to the code of conduct that's an instant community ban, I was ahead of my time!

 

1 hour ago, littleshake said:

I didn't give anyone any permissions to do anything bad to the server and never have or would, which the past thing I did can attest to.

You admit to giving them permission to @everyone (multiple times, mass pinging, a "bad" thing) and you also used your own powers to unban those who should be banned, delete roles (screenshots later), etc. I don't know if you're trying to pull jedi mind tricks on me right now but, wtf? "never have (given people permissions to do anything bad) but also I unbanned people and gave them permission to mass ping"? Let me know if I'm reading that correctly, or if you think that's not a bad thing, it's actually a good thing.

 

1 hour ago, littleshake said:

There for I didn't have malicious intent, my intent was having a laugh and leaving on a funny note.

Sure, let's not call it malice... let's just call it damage done carelessly by you with the intent of having fun. I guess it's better to plead ignorance over malice.

 

1 hour ago, littleshake said:

I didn't delete any roles. 

According to this chatlog... further backed up by my memory... the muted role was deleted by you, I remember others being deleted also. I also spent a good few minutes fixing up random channel permissions that were changed by you, none of them really allowed users such as the ones you unbanned to do harm, but they were annoying to clean up nonetheless.

 

1 hour ago, littleshake said:

And it was changed so that one specific new role that yall could delete had permission to @ everyone. So it wasn't a complicated fix. At least I didn't fuck up anything on purpose and was a good admin for 4 years. The only bad thing I did was that.

Even if it was a new role that only 2 people that you unbanned were given (which is not true, several people were able to @everyone) that's a major abuse of power, which I'd ban anyone for. Again, I don't know this jedi mind trick stuff but you did fuck up things on purpose. You're admitting it right here?

 

1 hour ago, littleshake said:

Didn't let them do anything else. Nor would have because like I said that was never the intent. So i don't know how you could possibly say my intentions were malicious when you didn't even wanna listen to my side and what I actually did.

I will admit I was using "malice" incorrectly, I corrected myself earlier, it's probably just ignorance. If you did not intend to do harm (even though you caused plenty) that does not change the fact it happened. 

 

1 hour ago, littleshake said:

And I remember that a lot of admins said at the time that I shouldn't be banned but you proceeded to do so because I made you mad.

As stated before, I'd still community ban anyone for this type of thing - if I had the power too anyways... nowadays I'd just tell a council member and they'd do it instead. Just because HnS staff liked and backed you up doesn't mean anything for what happened, you abused staff powers majorly, that's an instant community ban.

 

I like that you blame it on me being emotional ("mad") though, and think that it's just because you unbanned "someone I don't like".

 

1 hour ago, littleshake said:

And I added you trying to explain what happened and ask why you overreacted at me when my intentions weren't evil but you never accepted my request and refused to talk.

My DMs have always been open, if yours are closed... that's your own fault IMO. I checked our DMs and there's nothing there. I would literally talk to anyone who spoke to me back then, even people who only wanted to harass me, so I'm gonna call bull on the fact you even tried to add me, because I probably would have accepted. I loved an argument, still do, lol. I like to trust my memory over other peoples unless given reason to believe otherwise, especially given what you've said here, I'd definitely trust mine more over yours.

 

That's all I got on the subject anyways. Good luck with your appeal, talk to me on Discord/respond here if you have anything more to say - or don't, lol. Up to you. My DMs are still open, like always Liloz01#9857.

 

Edit, to respond to your edit:

1 hour ago, littleshake said:

Edit: this was a while ago and that's how I remember it.

Nice save, lol.

  

1 hour ago, littleshake said:

I don't dislike anyone and it was all fun. I take accountability for what I did and I am sorry it was supposed to be a simple joke, not meant to hurt the server or anyone else.

Fair enough. Weird that it took this long to say that, given that probably should've been your opening statement in the appeal, but fair enough as I said.

  

1 hour ago, littleshake said:

I think i didn't deserve an in game ban to begin with because it was a discord issue and i have never once broken a rule in game but if we talk about power abuse you did ban me despite any consultation with anyone else on every aspect of the community.

I did not need to consult anybody as Director (but I did anyway, stop assuming lol), and I fully stand by my actions in the past related to this. Pyros and Ben (the only other two higherups involved) agreed with the community ban, and obviously I agreed with the Discord ban that motorsteak put in place initially.

 

If you want to bring it up to the new Council and have them review what happened, I'd place my bets on the fact they'd side with me back then as well... especially with the code of conduct in place now which would have lead to you getting exactly the same punishment I gave you. If you think this is such a slam dunk against me, like I abused my powers so hard you should report me... but I'd recommend not wasting Councils time.

 

1 hour ago, littleshake said:

Again because i unbanned someone that at the time i had no idea you disliked because i didn't even know you.

Weird that you keep saying it's just because I didn't like the person you unbanned, who do you think I am? If I just banned people I didn't like, or who associated with people I didn't like, plenty of the community would be gone haha. Do you seriously think that if you just unbanned two people I didn't know the outcome would be different? Of course not. I had no idea who you were, the fact that one of the people you unbanned was @De_throne had no impact on the decision.

 

The way you keep going back to that line of "Liloz is just mad that I unbanned someone they don't like" really makes that acceptance of accountability seem inauthentic. Not to mention the fact it wouldn't have changed the ban I gave you if I was best friends with the person you unbanned, you're just using it as a scapegoat to save face. Why?

 

Despite this (very) weird appeal, including one of my new favourite moments: "I didn't give anyone any permissions to do anything bad" shortly followed up by "I just unbanned 2 people and let them @ everyone" I stand by my initial "meh" opinion. It was a year ago at this point and as long as you don't get any permissions to abuse again, all is well. Eh, not really well, but "meh". 

[huntress 49 / 2,677]

1 hour ago, Liloz01 said:

I did not ban you on Discord, nor was I even the first to "be on scene" if you'd like to call it that. I banned you everywhere else after motorsteak informed of me the details of what happened, though. Even today, if an admin did something like this, according to the code of conduct that's an instant community ban, I was ahead of my time!

 

You admit to giving them permission to @everyone (multiple times, mass pinging, a "bad" thing) and you also used your own powers to unban those who should be banned, delete roles (screenshots later), etc. I don't know if you're trying to pull jedi mind tricks on me right now but, wtf? "never have (given people permissions to do anything bad) but also I unbanned people and gave them permission to mass ping"? Let me know if I'm reading that correctly, or if you think that's not a bad thing, it's actually a good thing.

 

Sure, let's not call it malice... let's just call it damage done carelessly by you with the intent of having fun. I guess it's better to plead ignorance over malice.

 

According to this chatlog... further backed up by my memory... the muted role was deleted by you, I remember others being deleted also. I also spent a good few minutes fixing up random channel permissions that were changed by you, none of them really allowed users such as the ones you unbanned to do harm, but they were annoying to clean up nonetheless.

 

Even if it was a new role that only 2 people that you unbanned were given (which is not true, several people were able to @everyone) that's a major abuse of power, which I'd ban anyone for. Again, I don't know this jedi mind trick stuff but you did fuck up things on purpose. You're admitting it right here?

 

I will admit I was using "malice" incorrectly, I corrected myself earlier, it's probably just ignorance. If you did not intend to do harm (even though you caused plenty) that does not change the fact it happened. 

 

As stated before, I'd still community ban anyone for this type of thing - if I had the power too anyways... nowadays I'd just tell a council member and they'd do it instead. Just because HnS staff liked and backed you up doesn't mean anything for what happened, you abused staff powers majorly, that's an instant community ban.

 

I like that you blame it on me being emotional ("mad") though, and think that it's just because you unbanned "someone I don't like".

 

My DMs have always been open, if yours are closed... that's your own fault IMO. I checked our DMs and there's nothing there. I would literally talk to anyone who spoke to me back then, even people who only wanted to harass me, so I'm gonna call bull on the fact you even tried to add me, because I probably would have accepted. I loved an argument, still do, lol. I like to trust my memory over other peoples unless given reason to believe otherwise, especially given what you've said here, I'd definitely trust mine more over yours.

 

That's all I got on the subject anyways. Good luck with your appeal, talk to me on Discord/respond here if you have anything more to say - or don't, lol. Up to you. My DMs are still open, like always Liloz01#9857.

 

Edit, to respond to your edit:

Nice save, lol.

  

Fair enough. Weird that it took this long to say that, given that probably should've been your opening statement in the appeal, but fair enough as I said.

  

I did not need to consult anybody as Director (but I did anyway, stop assuming lol), and I fully stand by my actions in the past related to this. Pyros and Ben (the only other two higherups involved) agreed with the community ban, and obviously I agreed with the Discord ban that motorsteak put in place initially.

 

If you want to bring it up to the new Council and have them review what happened, I'd place my bets on the fact they'd side with me back then as well... especially with the code of conduct in place now which would have lead to you getting exactly the same punishment I gave you. If you think this is such a slam dunk against me, like I abused my powers so hard you should report me... but I'd recommend not wasting Councils time.

 

Weird that you keep saying it's just because I didn't like the person you unbanned, who do you think I am? If I just banned people I didn't like, or who associated with people I didn't like, plenty of the community would be gone haha. Do you seriously think that if you just unbanned two people I didn't know the outcome would be different? Of course not. I had no idea who you were, the fact that one of the people you unbanned was @De_throne had no impact on the decision.

 

The way you keep going back to that line of "Liloz is just mad that I unbanned someone they don't like" really makes that acceptance of accountability seem inauthentic. Not to mention the fact it wouldn't have changed the ban I gave you if I was best friends with the person you unbanned, you're just using it as a scapegoat to save face. Why?

 

Despite this (very) weird appeal, including one of my new favourite moments: "I didn't give anyone any permissions to do anything bad" shortly followed up by "I just unbanned 2 people and let them @ everyone" I stand by my initial "meh" opinion. It was a year ago at this point and as long as you don't get any permissions to abuse again, all is well. Eh, not really well, but "meh". 

2 hours ago, Brotherwolf said:

 

I apologize.
I did message you and it was closed and couldn't send.
I didn't delete multiple roles u can check that. 

It was 2 pings they were in call there for i stand by saying no major damage has been done.
They asked to do more and other members of hns at the time were in call and urged me on to do more. I simply allowed ppl to do 2 @ everyones like i said.
Also its nice to know your pov. because like i said and from what others told me it seemed like you only had it out for me. 
Other then that i understand the ban and was ok with it.

I am just asking to be unbanned so i can VC with people if there even is people using GFL HNS discord for talking. 
Thank you.

 

Again I apologize for the damage done.

 

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by littleshake

[Harakoni 729 / 12,354]

Hello,

I was there at the time this happened and can confirm and add a couple things;

Before you unbanned the three people who joined and began mass mentioning (they did an everyone each, then proceeded to tag @staff and other roles and people), you did delete the muted role from the discord, which at the time both myself and Liloz discovered through audit logs after it happened. Additionally you modified the Discord Moderator role using your Discord Admin role to prevent it from adding roles and deleting messages.

Seeing as this was roughly over a year ago, and the damage was debatably small and easily fixed in 10 minutes, I would be willing to vouch for an unban, but it is up for the Moderation's Senior Mods and Leader with the current HnS moderators to make a decision

[huntress 49 / 2,677]

9 minutes ago, Harakoni said:

 Additionally you modified the Discord Moderator role using your Discord Admin role to prevent it from adding roles and deleting messages.

I do not remember doing this at all. And I am sorry if I did. Also I wouldn't really know how to do it. But if I did I'm sorry.
 

[Joshy 4,364 / 44,945]

Community bans are a Council issue and I generally cannot touch them.  It looks like yours may have been lifted?  That's okay, but based on what others are attesting to and even a few self incriminating comments it does look like you received a fair ban on Discord.

 

I'm personally not sure if it's worthy of a long-term permanent ban.  That's something I'll have to think about more or discuss with the team.  Something I don't like is when the appeal is not upfront about the problem.  Mass pinging alone has gotten people banned, but the details about improperly lifting 2 bans to break this rule... that's not a minor detail to leave out, and more comes to light the longer this thread remains open.  A lot of rule breakers think what they are doing is fun, and so I think that's a poor defense...  no lesson learned and not sorry for the problems you have caused the (past) team.  How can we expect that you would be okay in the future?

 

I would say in the immediate future the answer is no.  I'll keep the thread open to see if we can discuss whether or not this is a permanent ban and when is the next time you can do the appeal if any at all.

[huntress 49 / 2,677]

18 minutes ago, Joshy said:

 others are attesting to and even a few self incriminating comments it does look like you received a fair ban on Discord.

 

 Something I don't like is when the appeal is not upfront about the problem.  Mass pinging alone has gotten people banned, but the details about improperly lifting 2 bans to break this rule... that's not a minor detail to leave out,

Thanks. I do feel remorse and i appealed for that reason to apologize and say how I wouldn't do it again. 
I used to be a very good admin and broke none of the rules.
I am sorry again. I am not self incriminating my self I am admitting to everything and confirming that I am indeed sorry and would not do something like that again.
Like I stated the intent was never and hasn't hurt the HNS discord server. I would never give someone permissions to ban, mute, delete etc.
Either way I am sorry and I really do mean that, that is why I'm trying to appeal my ban because I understand why i was punished and want to make right.

"Something I don't like is when the appeal is not upfront about the problem. " I have never been banned so i didn't know how to appeal or how much i could write. I thought i was supposed to make it simple. But i did go on to explain after.

"A lot of rule breakers think what they are doing is fun, and so I think that's a poor defense...  no lesson learned and not sorry for the problems you have caused the (past) team.  How can we expect that you would be okay in the future?"  Like I said I am sorry and I am holding my self accountable. I won't blame my past or what I was told to do by others at the time or how I was emotionally. I did do this and I am trying to show growth and change. I am hoping you will accept it.

 

And I assure that I haven't done anything else bad apart from this incident that will be shown in this thread.
Thank you for reading.
@Joshy

[FrankAL 104 / 3,191]

Based on my understanding of this the problem's lie with when Littleshake was an admin, and the same type of rule violation can't really occur without being repromoted.

As a result I definitely agree with an unban from being able to use gfl, because the ability to engage with the community doesn't bring about the same consequences. The only hypothetical thing would be if Littleshake somehow convinced a current admin to do the same thing they did, but that'd be more on the hypothetical newer admin than her responsibility.

 

Basically I agree with an unban, but this should be factored in for any future admin applications Littleshake may or may not have, because this was a big violation of server trust.

[Shuruia 3,145 / 28,033]

The "community ban" was lifted, yes. She wouldn't have been unbanned from other platforms if that wasn't the case. There wasn't much communication about that at the time since we didn't quite hold community bans in as official of a light as we do today. I spoke to littleshake about it in a VC first, then I went to figure out the "missing pieces", so to speak. The general consensus that was held between myself and the people I consulted was very much the same as what @Brotherwolf said earlier in that the Discord ban was justified, but the game ban was largely up in the air.

 

I do very much agree with the initial ban, but I also hold that it could now be reversed given the relatively small impact of the damage done, as well as how much time has passed.

[Joshy 4,364 / 44,945]

I wanted to keep you in the loop and let you know that your appeal hasn't been forgotten and is being discussed by senior moderators.  We'll keep it open until a decision has been made.

[Joshy 4,364 / 44,945]

I’ve been persuaded and I’m hopeful.  After more discussion among Senior Moderators we have decided to lift your ban.

 

The main reasons for this was:

- Support from the Server Manager, Admins, and again from the majority of Senior Moderators.

- The ban occurred so long ago while the Discord was unofficial.

- We believe future risk is mitigated if you are not in a staff role.

 

Please notice that the Discord is now official and so I do recommend reviewing the rules and to try not to be too risky with your behavior.  We don’t run in to too many bans like this (and lift it) and so I admit I don’t know what the consequences will be any other broken rules although context will still be very important.

 

I already used the command to lift your ban and so you should be able to get back on.  If there are any problems with that then you can send me a message and i’ll try to fix it.

 

Welcome back!