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Cpt.Haxray

TTT2 Roles we don't use and why: Second Edition

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Posted  Edited by Cpt.Haxray - Edit Reason: Updated with new roles.

Link to the Original: 

 

Hello! This is the second edition of "Roles we don't use and why". We get a lot of questions about roles that exist on the workshop or in other places but aren't currently in use on the server. Usually there is a lot of very good reasons for these, but they might not inherently be obvious from the get go. They can be buggy, caused massive compatibility issues, or simply cause massive gameplay issues. Unlike the first list, this thread will be also including roles that aren't in the official TTT2 collection, as I feel a lot of them have been brought up and are worth discussing. The ordering in this one will also be different, as I will be going by most recent to oldest.

 

Nova:
Team: Innocent
Description:
The Nova is an innocent role that will explode after a random amount of time. Addtionally, if they are killed before then, they will still explode. Upon death their body disappears. The explosion will damage everyone caught in the blast.

 

Why We Don't Use:

Spoiler

Obviously, The Nova would result in massive amounts of unintentional team kill among other issues. Even if the Nova doesn't kill a crowd of Innocents by accident by simply detonating at a terrible time(They do not know when they will explode), the fact they'll explode on death means they're likely to kill Innocents just by existing and getting shot by a sniper rifle or other means. The Nova will rarely do anything except hurt their own team unintentionally. Additionally, their explosion counts as coming from themselves as the attacker, meaning their Karma would plummet massively constantly, as well as massive amounts of RDM reports being thrown in their direction. Overall, not a fun role to play as and is one of the worst designed TTT2 roles on the workshop in it's current state.

 

Revolutionary:
Team: Innocent(Detective Role)
Description:
The Revolutionary is a Detective who has access to the Traitor shop instead of the normal Detective shop. 

 

Why we don't use:

Spoiler

Role is incredibly boring, offering nothing but a different choice of shop items to the Detective as it is otherwise nearly identical. Roles that simply offer a new shop tend to be boring, as we already got two roles heavily focused around an unique shop(Serial Killer and Randy Rando). Additionally, Detectives have almost nothing beneficial to purchase from the T shop. Ak-47s are inferior most of the time to the P90 or UMP, and they already have access to Radars, Body Armor, awps, and Sandwiches. Items such as Bungers, C4s, Bomb Stations, Decoys, Trigger finger Chips, etc, offer little to no actual practical use for a Detective, and the lack of access to incredibly useful Detective items(or even situationally useful Detective items) is crippling. This would be a worse Detective in every way. Not to mention it would cause massive amounts of confusion with the Defective role.

 

Liar:
Team: Innocent
Description:
An innocent role. They do not know they are the Liar. When they die, their body is identified as a Traitor.

 

Why we don't use:

Spoiler

Not only is the Liar not fun to play as(you're literally just a base Innocent and nothing else), there is no benefit to being a Liar, and the role exclusively exists to damage the Innocent team. While this role could make some sense in specific role set-ups to nerf the Innocents, it offers nothing fun or interesting by itself and it is most definitely not fun to actually play as the Liar. The only use they would possibly bring to the Innocent team is that their body has a single credit upon death, so technically they could kill themselves to give a Detective or Survivalist a Credit I guess if they somehow figured out their role? 

 

Skirmisher:
Team: Skirmisher
Description:
A Neutral Evil role. The Skirmisher spawns alone by default. They have no shop and deal 50% more damage while also taking 50% less damage.


Why we don't use:

Spoiler

By default, any player dealing 50% more damage and taking 50% less damage is an incredibly strong baseline stat boost(effectively giving perma armor and perma executioner damage bonus). This could lead to balance issues especially if they got their hands on a p90 or ak-47. Other than for the potential balance issues, the Skirmisher is just incredibly boring. We already use a large amount of Neutral Evils, and the Skirmisher doesn't add anything new or interesting to the mix. 

Side note: Don't confuse this role for our previous Skirmisher Innocent role. That role was made specifically for our server by a regular who no longer plays, and the two roles share nothing in common other than for a name.

 

Shikari:
Team: Traitor

Description:
A Traitor who starts with access to the Tracker item by default, giving them the ability to see all other players through walls. They also deal 25% less damage.

 

Why we Don't Use:

Spoiler

The Tracker is already a main unique point of the Serial Killer, alongside their special shop. Giving the Tracker item to another role heavily reduces the cool factor and uniqueness factor of the Serial Killer.  Additionally, the Shikari is incredibly boring, being just a Traitor who has a damage penalty and a special item(compared to the Mesermist, who at least has an incredibly powerful and useful Special Item and isn't penalized for it). Additionally, this role would likely be incredibly busted in a situation where Traitors are actively using voice chat due to the massive amount of information the role provides. 

 

Naive:
Team: Naive/No Team

Description:
The Naive starts with 90 armor.  As of writing, the Naive effectively cannot win the game and simply exists doing whatever. In the Future, they will be randomly assigned either the Innocent or Traitor team, but will swap to the opposite team if everyone else on their current team dies. 


Why we Don't use:

Spoiler

Currently the role is in Beta, and effectively does nothing. The workshop author even admits to it essentially being made for Private Friend groups, with the intent of giving it to a player who doesnt really like to get involved in fighting. It would be incredibly boring to play, as even if you promptly went on a killing spree or something it wouldn't really matter as you would never be given a win of any sort.


If we consider the eventual final version, that version of the role would still be boring as you'll either be a Traitor with no shop, or an Innocent who just started with 90 armor. Not particularly fun or unique, with the added downside that you will change team the second you're the last player alive on said team, which means you can't get any cool last minute saves, and DEFINITELY hurts if you're on the Traitor team. 

 

Cursed:
Team: No Team

Description:
The Cursed cannot deal damage. If they die they will respawn at a random world spawn. Their goal is to change role by finding a player and either tagging them, or shooting them with a special Role Change deagle(One or the other can be enabled at a time in settings). Upon tagging another player they take that Player's role and the old one becomes the new Cursed. The new Cursed cannot tag the previous Cursed. 

Why we Dont use:

Spoiler

The Cursed would be incredibly unfun to play against, as the second the naturally spawning Cursed stole a player's role, they could simply announce to everyone the identity of the new Cursed, prompting said person to get endlessly spawn camped/shot on sight for the rest of the round without much they can do about it. If you give them access to the Role Swap deagle to try to negate this, it becomes unfun for a different reason as now there is very little counterplay as the Cursed keeps shooting a different person each time, causing mass confusion as to who is what role, inevitably leading to RDM or people being angry they lost their chance at being a specific role. 

 

Anarchist:
Team: Innocent(Detective Role)
Description:
A Detective who starts with access to a Randomat and a Randogun. 


Why we Don't use:

Spoiler

From the Workshop page itself, the Anarchist is effectively meant to be the same as our current Randy Rando role, except as a Detective instead of a Neutral Evil. The reason Randy was made a Neutral Evil is due to the large amount of Randomats that negatively impact the Innocent team, which would mean a Detective using it is likely hurting their own team the vast majority of time. 

 

Child:
Team: Child
Description:
The Child is a neutral role who is automatically set to 75% of the normal player height(so 25% smaller). They additionally only have 50 health instead of 100, and move slightly faster than the average player. They cannot deal damage, and their goal is to get killed by other players in order to win the round. Traitors cannot kill the Child, but other neutral evils can.


Why we Dont use:

Spoiler

Literally just the Jester but worse. Their identity is given away at the start of the round due to their obvious size and speed difference, and the only way they would ever get killed is in crossfire, slam or c4 explosions, or a troll actively going out of their way to murder the Child to instantly end the round. This role would absolutely suck to play as, as unlike Jester the only method you have of tricking someone into killing you is either hope they dont know that the Child Role is a thing on the server and are ignorant that you want to die, or to simply run into crossfire. This is also incredibly ineffective as Traitors cannot damage or kill the Child, making crossfire deaths more difficult ontop of their smaller size.

 

Additionally, the role is conceptually incredibly messed up, being a Suicidal Child that according to the addon creator will in the future have a special Interaction with the Priest role, bringing to mind incredibly uncomfortable subjects. The 2 additional roles meant to come with and assist the Child in Winning, the Child Killer and the Mother roles, also don't imply much fun, with the Child Killer's name both being incredibly messed up with implications, and also being incredibly obvious as to what their gameplay goal is(find and kill the Child role). 

 

Amazingly Buffed Separate Innocent:
Team: Innocent

Description:
Exactly the same as the Lycanthrope just renamed.

 

Why we dont use:

Spoiler

Self-Explanatory. 

 

Vendetta:
Team: Innocent

Description:
Identical to the Shinigami role mentioned in the Previous version of this thread, just with a different name.

 

Why we don't use:
View the Shinigami Section from the previous thread.

 

Juggernaut:
Team: Innocent

Description:
The Juggernaut spawns with 200 base health instead of 100, and has passive damage resistance to most sources of damage. However they move slower,  and take increased fall and downing damage.

Why We Dont use:

Spoiler

The Juggernaut is an incredibly simple yet kind of boring Innocent role that suffers from much of the same problems a lot of other Innocent roles do, where it effectively instantly proves itself due to its reduced movement speed. While there is an argument to be made that the Survivalist is also a boring Innocent role but is included on the server that can also instantly prove itself via buying a D-shop only item, the Juggernaut's speed penalty would likely make it feel a lot less fun to play, and would actively encourage the Juggernaut to camp in a corner somewhere on the map. 

 

Additionally, the Juggernaut causes potential massive problems for the Traitor team due to being incredibly difficult to take out silently due to their massive HP pool and damage resistances. While this sounds good on paper, in practice the only real counterplay the T team or other evils have to the Juggernaut is to try to abuse a poison dart gun or awp headshot, or try to save them for last. While this is not a major issue and is infact the main point of the role, it doesnt seem to encourage particularly compelling gameplay.

 

Ghost:
Team: Innocent

Description:
The Ghost is unaware they are the Ghost. When they die, a t-posing ghostly version of their player model will follow their spectator camera whenever they press the R key. 

Spoiler

Why we Don't use:
This role offers literally nothing, and we already have a Minigame that triggers a similar effect for all players. This role would be terrible even if you tried to ghost out the Evils to other still living Innocents. 

 

Beggar/Swapper/Phantom:
Team: Varies
Why we Dont use:

Spoiler

Putting in one section for the time being. Due to issues with TTT2's most recent update and addons we use on the server, we're unable to add or use any roles with a respawn feature that we didn't already have installed. In the future if/when these issues are resolved, Beggar and Swapper are likely to be reconsidered as roles while i will give a more proper write up for Phantom.

 

Leech/Old Man
Team: Special

Description:

As these two roles are very similar, i'm including them in one section. The Old Man and the Leech are neutral roles that are considered as being on everyone's team, and as such, can win with anyone. The main difference between the two roles is that the Old Man only has 30 Max HP, and the Leech will constantly lose HP if not near another player.

 

Why we Dont Use:

Spoiler

Due to limitations in TTT2, the end game screen only displays which team won, and not a list of all players who "won" with said team. This is a major issue for the core functionality of these two roles, as it makes it effectively the same as ending a round as Amnesiac without claiming a role, with the only difference being the Old Man or Leech gains bonus points after the round is over(and points don't really do anything outside of bragging rights so effectively nothing). 

Ignoring said limitation, these roles have a major design flaw. Since you win with literally any team no matter who wins, be it Traitor, Innocent, Jester, etc, it means they are actively encouraged to simply announce their role then sit around and do nothing the entire round. Directly aiding any team, while fun, is objectively harming their own win condition of simply being alive when the round is over, as they win with anyone. At the same time, there's no point for any other roles to kill them as they literally do nothing, and have no motivation to do anything. 

Not helping the fact that directly helping any team is directly negatively impacting their win condition, both of these roles are crippled heavily in some way. The Old Man has only 30 HP, rendering them basically dead on the spot if they try to get involved in any kind of gunfight, and the Leech will rapidly lose HP and die if they're not near another player, which also punishes them badly for getting involved in a gunfight. While the leech is slightly better than the Old Man by virtue of having a built in mechanic to not let them just sit in a single corner the entire round as they need to be near other players, they are both still incredibly boring roles to play as that are weaker than a base Innocent. 

 

Clown:
Team: Clown

Description:
The Clown is a neutral evil who disguises themselves as a Jester. At first they cannot deal any damage. However, when the round would normally end, the Clown transforms into the Evil Clown, gaining a damage boost and regaining the ability to damage players. They win by killing everyone else.


Why we don't use:

Spoiler

The clown is an interesting role on paper, and I even once tried to add it before running into ULX issues that were shared with other roles that were attempted to be added at around the same time. These ULX issues crashed admin chat + other things, resulting in a refusal to touch these roles for a long while until these issues were confirmed as no longer occuring.

Despite this, my mind has changed on the Clown due to additional context granted by the Leech and Old Man roles. Similar to those 2 roles, the Clown is basically encouraged to do nothing for the vast majority of the round. If they die they cannot win, and they cannot deal any kind of damage at all until late into the round. While you would think the ideal plan would be to pretend to be a Jester by 'fake' shooting people, this isn't the case. All Evil roles inherently see the Clown as a Jester, and no Innocent role would have a reason to randomly kill the Clown. As such, actively pretending to be a bad Jester as Clown simply opens up the chance of getting shot by someone who doesn't know what Jester is and how Jester works.


Additionally, a second issue is opened up by Clown. If the Jester(or jester alternatives like Swapper) isn't set up to win the game or have a chance to win the game when killed, it is inherently in everyone's best interest to shoot the Jester upon one being found in the round, as having someone die to the Jester and reviving them as a random Innocent or evil role is 90% of the time preferable to finding out the Jester was actually a Clown. Re-adding the Instant win condition to Jester, even if only at a chance, does solve this issue, but opens up previous issues that win condition caused(trolls, randoms who don't know what Jester is, etc), and also inherently removes any risk involved for the Clown as now NO ONE will ever shoot the Clown out of fear it causes an instant win. Instead of any form of Deduction, it devolves into either "always shoot Jester incase its a Clown" or "Never shoot Jester ever". 

At the end of the day, the Clown ends up being near identical to the issues caused by Old Man and Leech for gameplay, where they'll spend the round actively encouraged to camp out. While the Clown becoming hostile near the end of round and having to take an active involvement IS at least more interesting than "never do anything ever", it still causes too much issues to be considered a good role for the server.


Sleeper:

Team: Innocent/Traitor

Description:
The Sleeper starts on the Innocent team. They are unaware they are the Sleeper. When all of the current Traitors alive are killed, the Sleeper change team to the Traitors and gains access to the Traitor shop. Before transforming they are unable to see Traitors, and Traitors don't know the identity of the Sleeper.

 

Why we don't use:

Spoiler

An idea that sounds fun on paper, Innocents think they're in the clear when suddenly a trusted teammate turns out to be evil all along and turns on them! However in practice this role has several major issues.

The largest issue by far is that the Sleeper is a hindrance for both teams. Since the Sleeper doesn't know they are the Sleeper, they're likely to get actively involved in hunting down and killing Traitors. This means they're actively hurting their own future team, and reducing their own odds of winning. 

Second largest issue, since Traitors do not know if there is a Sleeper in the round or the identity of the Sleeper, they are also likely to kill the Sleeper thinking they are an ordinary innocent, taking the Sleeper's round and special role away and weakening their own team. 

Similar to Wrath, the Sleeper also causes issues if they were to discover their true role early due to their conflicting team Aligments. it is possible for the Sleeper to find out their role via an amnesiac, mimic, Pharaoh, etc. Since the Sleeper is on the Innocent team at first, yet know they will join the Traitor team, this is a mess for what they are and aren't allowed to do. Are they allowed to kill other Innocents despite still being on the Innocent team, since they KNOW they will join the Traitors anyway if all Traitors are killed? Are other innocents allowed to kill them ahead of time despite them still being on the Innocent team and prompting a Karma penalty? This inevitably would cause issues and confusion.

 

Finally, this is yet another "Innocent" role that actively hurts the Innocent team instead of aiding the Innocents, and these are generally not great as Innocents are already on the weak side currently.


Blocker:
Team: Traitor
Description:
The Blocker is a Traitor that prevents anyone except themselves from iding bodies while alive.

 

Why we Dont Use:

Spoiler

The Blocker is identical to a normal default Traitor except with an always active passive effect. This is not particularly interesting to play as, actively encouraging the Blocker to refrain from any kind of Traitor work due to their death disabling their sole ability. Additionally, we had a minigame previous that triggered the same effect and was known for causing massive RDM issues among other problems, and the Blocker would multiply these issues as there would be no way to know there is a Blocker active until you tried to ID a body.

 

Defector:
Team: Traitor

Description:
The Defector does not spawn normally. Instead, a Defector Jihad item is added to the Traitor shop. Upon being picked up by an Innocent or other player(who has to press E on the Defector Jihad), they will be converted into the Defector. The Defector cannot deal damage with any weapon outside of a Sucide Bomb. 

Why We Don't Use:

Spoiler

Since an Innocent has to actively choose to pick up the Defector Jihad item, this means the item and role in question has a high likelyhood of not actually doing anything for the Traitors, or resulting in the Traitors being shot. Additionally, the only reason an Innocent would have to willingly pick up a Defector Jihad would be if they wanted to Troll or piss off other players as they will inevitably die after using it regardless. This role does not add much of anything by itself.

Additionally, the role requires a specific Jihad Bomb addon instead of the Sucide bomb we currently use on the server, meaning it would be incompatible with custom audio sounds. 

 

Roider:
Team: Traitor

Description:
The Roider deals massively increased damage with their Crowbar. However, they are unable to damage players with any other weapon.


Why we Dont use:

The Roider is a particularly boring Traitor role, one that could and would make more sense as a Traitor shop item of some sort rather than a full on role(Unlike Mesermist where the item in question is valuable/unique enough to make sense to be role exclusive). While the idea could be fun for a while, it is also equal parts frustrating especially as the Roider has no choice to use anything but the Crowbar. In a lot of cases they will be worse than a normal Traitor. 

 

Arsonist:
Team: Traitor
Description:
The arsonist spawns with a Flamethrower and an Infinite ammo flaregun that cannot destroy bodies, simply light them or someone on fire.

 

Why We Don't use:

Quote

The flamethrower is incredibly weak. Other than for the balance issues, this is an incredibly boring Traitor role that does little to justify existing as a role instead of simply a shop Flamethrower item. 

 

Pure:
Team: Innocent

Description:
The Pure is identical to a normal Innocent, however if someone else kills them they are blinded for 20 seconds and are unable to see for the duration. If the Pure kills someone, they revert to a normal Innocent. 

Why we Don't Use:

Quote

 

Spoiler

Because Haxray is tormented by mis-reading the role as Puro
The Pure is an incredibly boring role, being basically the same as a normal Innocent for whoever gets the role, except worse since they cannot get involved in helping to actively kill any Traitors, or even act in self-defense, as this will negate the entire sole power of their role. Additionally, the Role's blinding effect is incredibly overpowered, being essentially a death sentence for whoever triggers it as they'll be unable to navigate the map or defend themselves and it will be very obvious to notice they are blinded, prompting a quick execution. There is no counter-play to this role's active effect either, as Traitors and neutral evils have no real way of knowing if someone is a Pure or not, meaning it can devolve into bad luck frustration. 

 


Thief:
Team: Thief
Description:
The Thief is a neutral evil. Whenever the round would ordinary end in another team's victory(example, Innocents or Traitors), the Thief will win instead, but only if they're still alive at the time the round would end.

Why we don't use:

Spoiler

The Thief has the same issues as the Old Man and Leech. While it is not actively crippled in a way to prevent itself from engaging in combat, and is rewarded in a more direct way for winning compared to the Old Man or Leech, at the end of the day it still actively encourages the player to sit in a corner and do nothing. Getting involved in the round as a Thief is more likely to get the Thief killed than actually help, especially since they'll steal the win from ANYONE. This includes wins such as the Jester win State, so if a role was added that triggered a win condition before all players die/normal win condition, the Thief would effectively steal their win away on a regular basis. There is no way to know there is a Thief in the round or to find a Thief without the Thief taking action themselves, so the Thief would almost certainly win the vast majority of rounds it spawned in.

 
Cyclone/Blackmailer:
Team: Traitor

Description:
The Blackmailer is a Traitor that has the ability to mark another player by damaging them. Upon doing this, their HP is reduced to Half and they lose the ability to communicate to other players. This mark is moved to another player when they are damaged by the Blackmailer or the Hurricane. Additionally, a message is broadcast to all players mentioning who was marked.

Why We Dont Use:

Spoiler

This role offers a lot of convar options, allowing you to disable the HP reduction and the Comms mute, or any combination of the sort. Because of this, we originally tried out this role renamed to Blackmailer with solely the comms mute. However, we had to disable and remove the Role due to several core issues with the design and several bugs. The biggest core issue being the loud broadcast rendering the comms mute almost worthless as everyone is informed of the person who was marked, and the biggest bug being that the Mute could remain after a round is completed if the Mark was never switched to another player.

 

Hurricane:
Team: Innocent
Description:
The Hurricane is a Detective role. Upon shooting another player, they are marked. A marked player has their max HP reduced to 50, and lose the ability to communicate to other players. Only one player may be marked at a time, and shooting another unmarked player transfers the Mark. The mark can also be transferred by the Blackmailer/Cyclone shooting a player. When a player is marked, a Global message is sent to all players mentioning who has been marked.

Why we don't use:

Spoiler

The Hurricane is identical to the Cyclone/Blackmailer. The only difference is that they are a Detective role instead of a Traitor. The Vast majority of the effects of this role are nearly worthless on a Detective, with the only real upsides being the Global callout and the reduced HP. Due to this role sharing its mark with the Cyclone, this callout effect is basically useless if both roles are actively used at the same time, causing limited use of this role outside of being frustrating for Traitors to fight due to potential permament health loss. 

 

Additionally, if used without the Cyclone, the global callout is incredibly busted, rendering any attack on the Hurricane that isn't an instant kill or one done without the Hurricane reacting a death sentence as the attacking player will be instantly called out to all players the second they take any damage. 

It also shares the same bugs that Cyclone has with comms mute lasting between rounds.


Imitator:
Team: Traitor
Description:
The Imitator is given a list of 3 randomly chosen innocent roles at the start of the round(minus for Detective). They can select a role from the list to swap their role while remaining on the Traitor team. 

Why we don't use:

Spoiler

We actually were going to use this role, as it is actually a rather cool/fun idea, even if its a hybrid of the Undecided and Doppleganger. However, the role came with a massive bug that rendered it essentially unusable.

This bug made it so when the Imitator changed their role, they could no longer see their Traitor Teammates, and Traitor teammates could no longer see the Imitator. This results in endless amounts of accidental teamkill with no real easy way to prevent this. until this issue is fixed, this role cannot be used. 

 

Revenant:
Team: Innocent/Revenant

Description:
The Revenant starts the round on the innocent team, and are unaware they are the Revenant. However, upon being killed they will revive on their own team, and can now win the round by killing everyone. After reviving, they gain a 50% damage bonus.


Why we Don't Use:

Spoiler

Similar to the Wrath and Sleeper, this is another Innocent role that isn't 'really' on the Innocent's side. Similar to Wrath, its possible for the special effect/point of this role to never trigger in a round, resulting in the player believing they just obtained a generic/normal Innocent round, and would likely be angry upon finding out they were actually the Revenant. This role shares the same issue with Wrath and Sleeper, which is what happens if the Revenant finds out their identity before dying and transforming, and what is allowed/not allowed in such a situation.

 

Additionally, outside of starting as an Innocent, the Revenant doesn't actually do anything particularly interesting as a neutral role. They do not have a special shop by default, and their only special ability is dealing 50% increased damage. While this is strong it is also a rather boring effect, similar to the Skirmisher. 

 

Doctor:
Team: Innocent

Description:
The Doctor starts the round with a Defib that can revive any dead person.

 

Why We Don't use:

Spoiler

Doctor has all the same issues the Sacrifice role has, but without the role killing itself for the revive. TL:DR Reviving innocents is incredibly strong as it combines both their knowledge of their killer, as well as all knowledge they obtained while dead/spectating, and being able to choose when you're reviving allows the dead person to gather information. For more indepth reasoning check the Sacrifice as this is essentially the same role.

 

Mercenary:
Team: Innocent

Description:
The Mercenary is an Innocent with access to the Traitor Shop.

 

Why we Don't Use:

Spoiler

This role is incredibly similar to Survivalist, a role we use, just with a different shop they access. The Traitor shop on average is less useful for an Innocent player than the Detective shop, with a majority of items having limited to no use for an Innocent player due to their collateral damage nature. Additionally this would cause issues with call-outs regarding items, an issue we tried to resolve by giving the Detective shop awp a different name and model. This role would bring all of those issues right back.

 

Trickster:
Team: Trickster

Description:
The Trickster is a neutral evil who starts with a Manipulation Knife and a Jester Emulator.

 

Why We Dont use:

Spoiler

The Trickster is inherently rather boring for a neutral evil. All it gets is 2 gimmicky items, one of which that doesn't work very well/barely works(Jester Emulator), and one that would be a massive pain to set-up properly(Body Manipulation Knife doesn't automatically support all roles, and has built in support for roles we dont use which could cause lua issues, + the knife being visible on the body is a major giveaway). Not particularly well designed overall. 

 

Psychopath:
Team: Traitors

Description:
The Psychopath is a traitor with access to the Detective Shop.

 

Why We Don't Use:

Spoiler

The Psychopath is literally just Defective but lamer(pretending to be a survivalist instead). Not particularly interesting and could pose a potential balance issue due to access to the P90 and UMP.

 

Guard:
Team: Innocent

Description:
The Guard is a detective role has access to a wall mounted camera.

 

Why We Dont use:

Spoiler

This role is incredibly similar to our Lookout role, except with a different name and without the Player Camera. This role is both weaker than Lookout and would be too similar.

 

Agent:
Team: Traitors

Description:
The Agent starts with access to a Wall mounted Camera.

 

Why We don't use:

Spoiler

The Camera makes more sense as an Innocent item than a Traitor item, offering more potential utility to the Innocents than to the Traitors. 

 

Link:
Team: Innocent

Description:
Link is a detective role who starts with a special Master Sword weapon, increased health and armor, and an unique model.

 

Why We Don't use:

Spoiler

This role is incredibly boring, being just a Detective with a gimmicky starting item. The Master Sword item is incredibly disorienting to use and could genuinely cause motion sickness in people while being mostly impractical. Not particularly interesting and item has some major issues.

 

Devil:
Team: Devil
Description:
The Devil is a neutral evil that has the ability to see all traitors at the start of the round, but all Traitors are able to see the Devil at the start of the round.

 

Why We Don't Use:

Spoiler

This role is INCREDIBLY boring for a neutral evil. They don't even get a gimmicky item or ability, they can simply view Traitors who can also view the Devil. As from past experience with using Duelist, this is bound to result in instant KOS spam by both sides, and inevitably the Devil will quickly perish one way or another. The Devil would easily be the weakest neutral evil, and not particularly fun to play as. Any potential use of being able to abuse its knowledge is effectively impossible due to the Ts instantly knowing its in the round. This role makes me sad that the name Devil is now taken away from any future roles.

 

Blitz:
Team: Blitz

Description:
The Blitz is a neutral evil. They are instantly revealed at the start of the round to all players, and have 350 base Hp.


Why We Don't Use:

Spoiler

While we already got 3-4 roles that instantly announce themselves that they are in the round and who the person is(Kobold Horder, Doomslayer, Hidden, Bulwark) and 3 of those roles are of the kill them all variety, i want to keep these kind of roles limited. The main core of the game is Deception, and while these roles can be fun on rare occasions, too much of them basically kills the core of the game. 

 

Outside of that restriction, the Blitz isn't a particularly fun neutral evil, with their sole upside being increased base HP which isn't going to last long when everyone is out for them and they have no other gimmick. A role would need to have a particularly unique and fun gimmick to warrant getting the Doomslayer treatment, and this role is far from it. 

 

Bandit:
Team: Bandit

Description:
The Bandit is a neutral evil who has access to the Detective Shop.

 

Why We Don't Use:

Quote

Has many of the same issues that Psychopath has, but as a neutral evil instead of a Traitor. While a neutral evil having access to the P90 is a lot less of a balance concern than a Traitor due to not having teammates, the role is still incredibly dull and lacking any kind of fun creative spark that most neutral evils have.

 

Yandere/Senpai:
Team: Innocent/Yandere

Description:
The Yandere and Senpai are a pair of linked Innocent roles. The Yandere has a special knife she can use to Mutilate corpses to gain additional HP. When a Yandere spawns in the round, a random Innocent is chosen to spawn as the Senpai. The Senpai has no special powers. The Yandere has a special Mental State meter. Whenever she Mutilates a corpse, or the Senpai takes damage, her meter goes up. When her meter goes up her base HP also increases. If Senpai dies or her Mental State meter fills, she transforms into the Yangire, a neutral evil that can only use her knife. If the Senpai is alive when this happens they switch team with the Yandere.


Why We Don't Use:

Spoiler

This role is effectively an Innocent Glutton but losing their hunger meter instead of filling it when eating a body. This role risks a lot of being confused for the Glutton which would result in plenty of accidental teamkills, especially if someone just stumbles onto them eating a body. On the flipside, the way the Senpai mechanic works offers a similar issue to Duelist where it effectively 'steals' a role out of the round even if said role was normally chosen, which can weaken the Innocent team(example: if the Senpai was originally chosen to be a survivalist there is now a max of 1 survivalist in the round).

 

Senpai is effectively encouraged to either sit in a corner and do nothing the whole round, as if they die they hurt the Innocent team's chances of winning, or the reverse, to intentionally get themselves killed as they'll win with the Yandre after transforming. 

Generally speaking more people prefer to play as a Evil role than an innocent role, so the Yandere is effectively encouraged to intentionally fill their meter to turn berzerk. After going berzerk they're effectively the Ravenous, a role a lot of Gluttons would intentionally starve themselves to reach as they found it more fun than simply playing to avoid filling the meter, which would be even more inciting when you're on the Innocent team.

 

On the flipside, if a Yandere player wanted to play Innocent and not just intentionally turn evil, they could easily get stuck with an AFK Senpai or a Senpai who disconnects, instantly either turning them evil or making it impossible for them to realistically protect. The punishment for this would be incredibly cruel to the Yandere player, even more so if the Senpai is a troll and tries to start mass RDMing. 

 

This role offers a lot of issues without a lot of potentially interesting gameplay which is a shame since the idea of a VIP/Protector role is fun and could be done well. 

 

Hunters:
Team: Covenant
Description:

 

The Hunters are a bonded pair of neutral evils on the Covenant Team. There will always be two of them if a Hunter spawns. They have access to a special weapon known as the Hunter Cannon, and have a unique model. Additionally they have increased Max HP. If one of the two Hunters die, the second hunter gains increased speed.

 

Why We Don't use:

Spoiler

The Hunters essentially instant reveal themselves like the Doomslayer and similar roles, putting them in the same camp. Of note however is that there is actually multiple roles that use the Covenant team, so they could have additional teammates other than for themselves. Regardless, they aren't as interesting as the Doomslayer or other roles that instant reveal, and don't feel worth the cost of adding an additional "Instant reveal" role. 

 

Additionally, the method it uses to force the Second Hunter is the same as Duelist and Yandere, and so has the same issues of "Stealing" roles.

 

Godfather/Mafiso:
Team: Mafia

Description:
The Godfather is a neutral evil role that has 50 additional HP. Additionally, there is a chance for Mafisos to spawn similar to how Pirate Captain and Pirates work. Mafisos are neutral evils on the same team as the Godfather.

 

Why We Dont Use:

Spoiler

The literal only thing it does is have 50 more HP. I dont need to explain more.

 

Warrior Priest:
Team: Innocent
Description:
The Warrior Priest is a Detective role with increased HP and additional Armor. They start with a special weapon, the Tome of Sigmar, that heals innocents and damages traitors when hitting them.

 

Why We Dont Use:

Spoiler

A detective who has a free infinite tester is incredibly busted. 

 

Streamer/Simps:
Team: Streamer

Description:

The Streamer is a Neutral Evil role that converts other people to Simps upon picking up any item they drop. Simps have no special abilities but are on the same team as the Streamer.


Why We Don't Use:

Spoiler

The Streamer role literally does nothing unless someone intentionally drops them an item knowing they are the Streamer. Outside of the rare case where they trick someone into joining their team, most of the time the only way they're getting a teammate is someone doing it on purpose, which is borderline griefing their original team considering they willingly joined another team hurting their original team. This isn't exactly ideal gameplay we want to promote.

 

Also the name is dumb.

 

Mayor:
Team: Innocent

Description:
The Mayor is a Detective role. Instead of a DNA scanner, they are told a random player's team every 30-60 seconds.

 

Why We Dont Use:

Spoiler

While similar to the Oracle role that we tried to use but had to remove due to functionality issues, the Mayor is incredibly overpowered by comparison. The oracle gets information that can be incorrect and has to deduct useful information. The Mayor is straight up told if someone is Evil or not every 30 seconds, which is insane and has no real counterplay outside of "Kill Mayor asap", which will inevitably be difficult as most players will be surrounding the Mayor protecting him. Simply incredibly overpowered.

 

Sus:
Team: Innocent/Traitor
Description:
The Sus role has a 50% chance of being on the Innocent or Traitor team.


Why We don't use:

Spoiler

Literally does nothing.

 

Cult Leader/Cultists:
Team: Cult

Description:
The Cult Leader is a neutral evil that has a special book it can use to convert people to Cultists by hitting them. It can also Hit cultists to heal them, or right click to try to damage people with the book instead.

 

Why We Don't Use:

Spoiler

Incredibly similar to the Jackal/Infected, except reusable with a melee weapon. Felt a bit too similar for my taste, and has several odd bugs reported in the comments that haven't been fixed, like Cultists not being able to tell they've been converted.

 

Master Chief:
Team: Innocent

Description:
The Master Chief is a Detective Role who spawns with a Burst Fire Battle Rifle, a special model, and increased HP and Armor.

 

Why We Don't use:

Spoiler

Incredibly lame, being just a special gun and more HP detective. Additionally, the Burst Rifle is incredibly Janky, not properly playing animations for its burst fire and just looking weird in general. Not a very good role. (Why doesn't it at least have regenerating shields or something?)

 

Loot Goblin:
Team: Loot Goblin

Description:
The Loot Goblin starts with increased HP but cannot damage other players. They are also smaller and move faster. Upon spawning all players are told there is a Loot Goblin in the round. They win by having the round end while they are alive, effectively stealing the win from another team. If they are killed they drop a random assortment of shop items.

 

Why We Don't use:

Spoiler

The Loot Goblin is effectively a worse version of the Kobold offering a lot of the same gameplay but with a weaker end-goal. No point in using it when Kobold exists.

 

Shanker:
Team: Traitor

Description:
The Shanker is a Traitor role that starts with a free radar and a special knife that can instantly kill anyone stabbed from behind. The knife has infinite uses.

 

Why We Don't Use:

Spoiler

Honestly incredibly boring for a T role, and the Shanking knife has a lot of hitbox issues. If the shanker knife didnt have Hitbox issues i would consider it as a replacement for the default Knife instead of adding this role.

 

 

Edited by Cpt.Haxray
Updated with new roles.

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my question is who the fuck even thought of the idea of the nova? like I thought some of the other roles were bad


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