BestKevin's General Mute/Ban Appeal

[BestKevin 89 / 1,644]

Which platform(s) are you appealing?: Discord

Discord/TS3 username (Add your tag and ID if possible):

KevinnTCG#0001

 

Why were you banned?: "Minor" NSFW

 

Why should you be unbanned?

Well to start with the GIF in question (which no one really thought was NSFW besides the mod team) got deleted pretty quickly after I posted it, DaPayneWayne told me he was removing it since it was kinda sus, and I said that was cool. I didn't understand it but respected his decision on it.

Fast forward 8 hours (I fell asleep) I found out I was muted for it 6 HOURS after the GIF was posted (and deleted). I understand the shadow council of mods doesn't like me, it has been an ongoing war between us, but this is just dumb. Lets take a look at your rules here...

For Punishment on Explicit Content (minor):
warning -> 1 day mute -> 3 day mute -> 1 week mute -> permanent mute

This was my first time ever posting anything supposedly NSFW, so why was it not a warning? I don't understand how a discussion about "Minor" explicit content could take 6 hours and result in a punishment that isn't even listed in your rules.

I honestly don't care much about the mute, I just wanted to point out a few more flaws in the clique that is the mod team, you know that it's been blown out of proportion when I get 6 DMs from regulars in Discord saying the mute is unwarranted. If only the mod team liked me, maybe I would have gotten that warn instead :(

For reference, it's hard to explain, but the GIF was someone having their chest exposed (seemingly a woman) and when it happens two loaves of bread fall out or something (it was a man).

Good day sirs.

 

[iLoveNapalm 134 / 3,969]

With all due respect to the Discord Mod Team, if it explicitly states and highlights the punishments that would ensue if someone posts minor nsfw content, why is that protocol not being followed diligently and to a tee? I too once posted a (debatable) minor nsfw gif in general, it also took several hours to remove (I believe around 8 hours) and I was given the proper punishment of a warn and nothing more, as that was also my first infraction. I personally don't really think what Kevin posted was nsfw but hey, what does that matter, I'm not a discord mod. But, considering the Discord Moderators did find his gif to be minor nsfw, then why has Kevin not been given the same punishment I was given for the exact same infraction? (very first minor nsfw infraction)

[AlphaOwl 307 / 7,593]

I don't like to get involved too much in general appeals like these, but having seen the gif myself and the initial removal, I understand the clear reason as to why it is inherently minor NSFW, but also disagree about how late the mute was applied to Kevin, or the fact he got one in the first place. It was kind of Wayne to let Kevin know that the gif might've not been alright and that he was removing it (so it was obvious we knew what it was to trace back to), but given the fact he had talked for a decent while before getting muted, I don't think it's necessarily fair for something like that to be decided so late, or even the fact that he hadn't broken the minor NSFW rule before and wasn't given a warning. Just my two cents though, as I feel there could be much more clearer consistency when it comes to Discord Modding for GFL (and IMO the stakes are raised there than rather on the servers themselves when it comes to breaking minimal rules that could easily be warned/discouraged for).

[DaPainWayne 469 / 9,402]

Hey. Being the mod who was directly involved, I wouldn't feel right not responding to this myself. So, as already stated, when you posted the GIF in rotation-general, I had removed it shortly after, and gave you the heads up that it was "eh". At that time, I had intended and wrote it up as just a "delete and verbal warning" kind of deal, and had left it like that. Not long after it was brought up as a discussion between moderators as to if it warranted more than that. The Senior's came to a decision that there should be further action taken due to the GIF posted. The discussion was quite long, which took up a good amount of time between the initial post and the mute. I don't know exactly how long after the topic was brought up, or how long it was deliberated, but that's why there was such a delay between the post and the final infraction. 

1 hour ago, BestKevin said:

For Punishment on Explicit Content (minor):
warning -> 1 day mute -> 3 day mute -> 1 week mute -> permanent mute

I do want to acknowledge that yes, this is the posted guideline for punishments on Minor Explicit Content. Also, looking at your previous infractions, I did see that you had no previous Explicit Content infractions filed. However, it was decided by Senior Mods, the same as how my verbal was being upgraded, that it would be upgraded to a 12hr mute. I cannot provide insight as to how or why they came to that decision, partly I may have not understood their reasoning or just didn't pay attention to the conversation. Once it was decided, I was informed to upgrade the infraction as such, which is what I did (I attempted to send you a personal DM, but couldn't cause we were not friends on discord at that time). 

 

I just wanted to add my own context/point of view on the matter. It isn't up to me the outcome of this appeal, but this is my take on things. 

[BestKevin 89 / 1,644]

13 minutes ago, DaPainWayne said:

Hey. Being the mod who was directly involved, I wouldn't feel right not responding to this myself. So, as already stated, when you posted the GIF in rotation-general, I had removed it shortly after, and gave you the heads up that it was "eh". At that time, I had intended and wrote it up as just a "delete and verbal warning" kind of deal, and had left it like that. Not long after it was brought up as a discussion between moderators as to if it warranted more than that. The Senior's came to a decision that there should be further action taken due to the GIF posted. The discussion was quite long, which took up a good amount of time between the initial post and the mute. I don't know exactly how long after the topic was brought up, or how long it was deliberated, but that's why there was such a delay between the post and the final infraction. 

I do want to acknowledge that yes, this is the posted guideline for punishments on Minor Explicit Content. Also, looking at your previous infractions, I did see that you had no previous Explicit Content infractions filed. However, it was decided by Senior Mods, the same as how my verbal was being upgraded, that it would be upgraded to a 12hr mute. I cannot provide insight as to how or why they came to that decision, partly I may have not understood their reasoning or just didn't pay attention to the conversation. Once it was decided, I was informed to upgrade the infraction as such, which is what I did (I attempted to send you a personal DM, but couldn't cause we were not friends on discord at that time). 

 

I just wanted to add my own context/point of view on the matter. It isn't up to me the outcome of this appeal, but this is my take on things. 

 

While I appreciate the clarity, this does still not explain much of anything in terms of how the "senior mods" made a decision to up it, and even more so up it beyond the initial "warning" that I was supposed to get.

 

It just solidifies my argument that it's based on the emotions and feelings of those staff members, and not based on actual logic on what actually happened.  The image got taken down very quickly by you, so how was it that big of a deal?  Did I post it saying "Lol, I am intentionally breaking rule 6!"?  No.

 

I don't intend to say this is your fault, but this is still very suspicious on how the mod team handles issues like this.  Even if this mute expires I would like a proper explanation from one of the "senior mods" that made this decision.

[BestKevin 89 / 1,644]

Mute ends in an hour, but I would prefer this remains open until one of the moderators directly involved in the decision has time to talk.  If it gets closed before then I understand but will be moving the question/issue somewhere else on the forums.

[Joshy 4,364 / 44,940]

Will be taking a shower in a moment and will get back to this later.  @DaPainWayne did a great job both in his actions and explaining above.  Excellent work.

 

I strongly discourage breaking rules.  Much like other threads sometimes people outside of the mod team are not fully aware of all the details and risk saying things without a full picture…. might be something to think about before posting.

[BestKevin 89 / 1,644]

2 hours ago, Joshy said:

Will be taking a shower in a moment and will get back to this later.  @DaPainWayne did a great job both in his actions and explaining above.  Excellent work.

 

I strongly discourage breaking rules.  Much like other threads sometimes people outside of the mod team are not fully aware of all the details and risk saying things without a full picture…. might be something to think about before posting.

 

This wouldn't be an issue if there was any transparency whatsoever.  The only people that know what the mod team does and thinks is the mod team itself which has it's own issues.

 

Generally an issue like this is pretty clear-cut, I (Supposedly) broke Rule 6 [Minor] as a first offense, that is a warn.  Even if it was a second offense it would be 24 hours not 12, nothing about the punishment lines up with the rules.  The only explanation is that you guys have some internal reason to want me specifically to have an enhanced punishment for this offense.

 

That is great that you discourage breaking rules, that is common sense, I didn't think that was NSFW or I wouldn't have posted it (hence the lack of NSFW violations).    If anyone here has their information wrong, feel free to elaborate.  I look forward to your future response. 

[tf_allen1104 36 / 523]

I don't want to stir the pot too much here, but I see how Joshy says there is probably stuff we don't have the full picture on and I get that.  But my only gripe on this, is if we have a clear cut nsfw rule and punishments explained in our rule section of discord, why weren't the punishments for infractions followed as described there, rather instead it falling to arbitrary limits not listed in the rules.  Also, if he had no prior infractions, why would this gif garner not only the warning, but an additional mute to it.  Shouldn't the warning be the only thing giving due to a first-time rule 6 breaking, since the rule explains that's what the first infraction warrants?  I don't want this to sound too off putting, but if those punishments aren't followed as the are described in the rule section, that doesn't set a wonderful picture.  I don't mind if they aren't followed like those ones, but they should be revised to match the punishment given.

Edited January 19, 2022 by tf_allen1104
I had an extra sentence to add, that didn't warrant an entirely new post

[Joshy 4,364 / 44,940]

Oh, I was discouraging the rule breaking in terms of your threat to post this private matter elsewhere (really does not help the appeal).  The general community will not be able to help you.  I can't always promise you happy outcomes, but this is the right place to post.

 

Some of the questions, comments, and concerns are fair.  I don't mind  being up front about the controversy behind this mute.  Both @DaPainWayne and myself strongly argued in favour of leniency.  It's well-known especially within Teams and Staff that I'm a bit more relaxed.  That being said: Just because not everybody agrees on the outcome (including myself) does not mean that it wont happen, and the team aligned in giving you a mute.  When I say align I'm not suggesting that everyone agrees with it or every detail of it, but this is what was ultimately negotiated and we will respect or tolerate the outcome even if we might not like it.  The things we do here is a team effort and so it's hard to get everyone on board every time.

 

I'm personally grateful for the mute and will take it.  The original discussion was actually for a ban, and you wouldn't have been the first person to have been banned on a minor infraction- no special treatment there.  The key here is that we're not looking at the one infraction alone.

 

(I crossed out 3x items to make it clear that 4x of these items are related to the same incident)

 

Like everything and everywhere else we do take into account many things including the context, person's general behaviour, and their history.  All of it matters to us, and we've made no secret of this.  I don't think this is an unusual practice.  I think it's a given that we're not going to make everyone's infractions immediately available for anyone to look through at their own discretion.  Try going to work and asking your boss for your coworker's previous writeups or job performance reviews to see how that goes 😉 or ask the professor to name and shame the students who didn't do well on an exam.  I think the general outcome isn't a transparency issue and it similarly applies to our flow here... nothing tricky or shady about that, but this also shows again why it's good to not post in this thread if you aren't privy to those details: You're posting your opinion on a topic without having most of the relevant information, and so it might not be very helpful.  It would be like arguing with the professor over someone else's grade.  You might even be arguing in the best of interest of a very talented student who failed the exam, but if you could take a look directly at their exam maybe they did make mistakes and failed?  It happens.  It doesn't mean professor is using their bias against the student.  I will in this case reply to the extra comments though... I can hear and understand your concerns.  I don't think you're being unreasonable.

 

The guidelines you are pointing to are very good ones and helps the team make less biased decisions; however: another not-so-secret thing here is that these guidelines are not ironclad, and it's also helpful to remember that they are guidelines.  Guidelines help us with the most typical arbitrarily high 95% of the cases and it seems to be working well, but what to do when things start dipping into gray areas?  For example: It gives a pretty clear procedure on someone who posts minor explicit content 5x, but what to do with people who have broken 5x different rules?  I agree.  It's not too clear.  Some might say 5x warns and I enjoy the simplicity of it too, but I don't think the ones saying other ideas would be far-fetched and this seems to be the general practice at many places including here.  Should we place a timeline; if we do, then where do we draw the line?  These are things that we will probably never have a solid answer for, and it's pretty fair considering that we're a gaming community and we want our rules to be easy enough for most people to read and interpret the message we're trying to convey.  I've seen places where the rules are like a legal document, and I can assure you that system does not work too well.  I would like to utilize the most basic 5x warns suggestion, but it's unfortunately a system that hasn't worked for us as some people expect us to robotically and religiously follow the guidelines (therefore they on purpose find ways to test and abuse that system).  This is why we have to do the little bit more complicated system and work with the gray area items where some outcomes can be very split.  I don't like it, but that's been working the best for us right now.  It's certainly open to change, but considering it's the best working system right now I would not expect any immediate overhauls.

 

So I will confirm: You fell into our gray area.  You have quite a lot of infractions...  not very many people have 5x infractions at all including the people who seem concerned about this, and you seem to have them within about 6-7 months.  We've banned for lesser things with some people who similarly have a handful of infractions.  With this many infractions It might be saying you're not a good fit on Discord because of your difficulty to align with the rules, but we haven't lost hope yet, which is why you're still welcomed here 🙂 .  I still think a 12h mute is pretty minor and it gives you a chance to continue being with us if you'd like.

 

I think DaPainWayne did a good job explaining why it took a while to upgrade your verbal warning into a mute.  I do want it to be clear... no secrets... that just because we didn't immediately give the final punishment does not mean there was something wrong with it.  We're trying to look at the full picture when we make a decision and sometimes it takes a little bit of time and discussion to determine what we think might be best.  There isn't always a "right" answer.  It doesn't mean that we'll randomly fire off punishments 2 years later down the road, but within a day or two I think this is pretty justifiable; again: The topic began with discussing your ban, and so it took a little bit of time to work it down.  Gray area cases are not easy and so it's hard to come to a decision that everyone can align with.  You could certainly see why that's not in your best interest in this case, but I would imagine a recent CR election and its outcome... we weren't too immediate on the outcome of that due to investigating all the evidence... if we were to say "Eh, we didn't get to it fast enough..."  Would you be okay with that outcome too?  I don't think you would.  It's just another case like your case where we needed a little more time to do the best we can, and so it's not uncommon or inconsistent for us to do it.  I think you can also understand why it would not be good to make immediate decisions without looking into it or discussing the issues.

 

The mute should have expired or is expiring soon, and I think we've explained our take on it.  It should be okay to close the appeal.  Thanks for sharing your concerns and please be a little bit more cautious considering you have so many infractions.  If you're really unsure you can ask in private or... for example the image in question... You can send a private message / DM to trusted friends about it so that you don't put yourself at risk.  I too say and share all sorts of things that would probably get myself banned here too, but that's why you're not seeing it here.  I'm not utilizing any special permissions or mod trickery to hide it.  I just don't do it here.  I think you can do the same here too and still have a good time.  Best of luck.

 

edit:

 

I'll leave this open a little bit longer for anyone who wants to get their last word in (I'm okay with that), but please consider this closed.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Joshy

[Roger Gunshot 204 / 5,018]

Since this was left open for people to say something, Imma do it. In my opinion, this whole thing is reflective of what's wrong with Discord moderation in general. They take themselves too seriously, take the "job" too seriously, and are fairly strict with things. What I've gathered is that the gif was deleted and a verbal warning was given, which is fair. I've done the same thing as a senior admin for TTT MC (may it rest in peace). But NEVER have I gone through previous RDM reports or warns to make a non-issue into a big issue. This seems EXTREMELY targeted if someone has the time do that. Are there prior things? Yes. Do they contribute? Sure. But should it amount to this? No. There seems to be a misalignment of priorities in moderation. Instead of just making sure everything stays as smooth as possible, actions taken recently have seemed to cause more harm than good, which should be an indication to look at what's possibly being done wrong on the moderation end. 

As for the misalignment of priorities, why can moderators spend the time reviewing non-issues, and then spend hours discussing said non-issue to turn it into something that they can then use to slap a mute on a person that they don't like, and yet they're unable to do the same when there are individuals under the age of eighteen making sexual comments? Many times there are moderators ACTIVELY TALKING while it's going on. What kind of message is that sending? That moderators are okay with MINORS making sexual comments right in front of them, but God forbid you post a gif of bread falling off of a dude's chest. I have perma gagged, muted, and banned people for making sexual comments to, about, or as minors. And yet nothing is done about it happening in front of moderators, but a small non-issue is dragged into an hours long discussion and twelve hour mute?

Edited January 19, 2022 by Roger Gunshot

[Joshy 4,364 / 44,940]

Just to clarify nobody had to spend hours of going through logs of deleted items.  Moderators are asked to document their actions and so this was documented and readily available to the team.  We definitely wont spend time going through logs if we don’t have to, and certainly not targeting anyone.  Wanted to make that clear.

 

As for the hours it’s because not everybody is online at the same time.. different timezones and people doing things with their lives like work or school.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Joshy

[Roger Gunshot 204 / 5,018]

4 minutes ago, Joshy said:

Just to clarify nobody had to spend hours of going through logs of deleted items.  Moderators are asked to document their actions and so this was documented and readily available to the team.  We definitely wont spend time going through logs if we don’t have to, and certainly not targeting anyone.  Wanted to make that clear.

I'll edit that out then when I get back to my computer

[BestKevin 89 / 1,644]

I guess I will finally actually try to fully defend myself instead of blowing it off as shit practices creating shit results.

 

11 minutes ago, Joshy said:

Like everything and everywhere else we do take into account many things including the context, person's general behaviour, and their history.  All of it matters to us, and we've made no secret of this.  I don't think this is an unusual practice.  I think it's a given that we're not going to make everyone's infractions immediately available for anyone to look through at their own discretion.  Try going to work and asking your boss for your coworker's previous writeups or job performance reviews to see how that goes 😉 or ask the professor to name and shame the students who didn't do well on an exam.  I think the general outcome isn't a transparency issue and it similarly applies to our flow here... nothing tricky or shady about that, but this also shows again why it's good to not post in this thread if you aren't privy to those details: You're posting your opinion on a topic without having most of the relevant information, and so it might not be very helpful.  It would be like arguing with the professor over someone else's grade.  You might even be arguing in the best of interest of a very talented student who failed the exam, but if you could take a look directly at their exam maybe they did make mistakes and failed?  It happens.  It doesn't mean professor is using their bias against the student.  I will in this case reply to the extra comments though... I can hear and understand your concerns.  I don't think you're being unreasonable.

 

What do most of you know from my general behavior besides the infractions? All you know is my history, and words on a sheet of infractions doesn't explain much.  Your work analogy doesn't really apply considering everything else on GFL has a public list of infractions, so you might have a leak in your HR system boss. 

 

16 minutes ago, Joshy said:

The guidelines you are pointing to are very good ones and helps the team make less biased decisions; however: another not-so-secret thing here is that these guidelines are not ironclad, and it's also helpful to remember that they are guidelines.  Guidelines help us with the most typical arbitrarily high 95% of the cases and it seems to be working well, but what to do when things start dipping into gray areas?  For example: It gives a pretty clear procedure on someone who posts minor explicit content 5x, but what to do with people who have broken 5x different rules?  I agree.  It's not too clear.  Some might say 5x warns and I enjoy the simplicity of it too, but I don't think the ones saying other ideas would be far-fetched and this seems to be the general practice at many places including here.  Should we place a timeline; if we do, then where do we draw the line?  These are things that we will probably never have a solid answer for, and it's pretty fair considering that we're a gaming community and we want our rules to be easy enough for most people to read and interpret the message we're trying to convey.  I've seen places where the rules are like a legal document, and I can assure you that system does not work too well.  I would like to utilize the most basic 5x warns suggestion, but it's unfortunately a system that hasn't worked for us as some people expect us to robotically and religiously follow the guidelines (therefore they on purpose find ways to test and abuse that system).  This is why we have to do the little bit more complicated system and work with the gray area items where some outcomes can be very split.  I don't like it, but that's been working the best for us right now.  It's certainly open to change, but considering it's the best working system right now I would not expect any immediate overhauls.

 

Nowhere is it stated that those are guidelines, as you said before I am new here (6 - 7 months with barely any serious infractions) so maybe I missed that when reading your "rules" channel.  The problem is you guys think that from a few messages you see from me in chat (probably almost none) and a list of infractions you know what I do and who I am, and instead of actually doing any research or digging you just leave it at that and punish based off some dates and notes on previous infractions.  This isn't just your discord, it's the discord for the communities that GFL houses, and the people in charge of those communities could probably help you.   I have been here for close to 7 months, and I have done a lot of talking and a small fraction of that has lead to punishments, I have done a lot more than what shows on that infraction list, but the mod team never knows about that. How is it hard to see from the message, and how Wayne and I interacted that it was not intentional or me trying to abuse a system?  Did anyone even look?  I am not sure why the mod team took the extra mile to discuss it and elevate the issue to this degree.

 

24 minutes ago, Joshy said:

So I will confirm: You fell into our gray area.  You have quite a lot of infractions...  not very many people have 5x infractions at all including the people who seem concerned about this, and you seem to have them within about 6-7 months.  We've banned for lesser things with some people who similarly have a handful of infractions.  With this many infractions It might be saying you're not a good fit on Discord because of your difficulty to align with the rules, but we haven't lost hope yet, which is why you're still welcomed here 🙂 .  I still think a 12h mute is pretty minor and it gives you a chance to continue being with us if you'd like.

 

Once again this is based off numbers with no context.  Do you expect me to be here for 2 years with 2-3 infractions for some of your loosely defined rules that are just guidelines?  Myself and my friends do like to troll, but with those infractions what damage was done?  Were those very serious infractions or minor ones, do you even know? Most of those infractions were for disobeying the mods about bot commands in rot-general, pretty dangerous, and it was to get the bots fixed instead of just punishing people for it.  I don't like it when people flaunt being welcome or giving me a chance to stay because it comes off as a huge power trip. I think it's time to acknowledge that some of your mods might not even know what taking it easy or leniency means.  A mute for this is pretty aggressive, a ban would be absolutely insane, why would solely the mod team have the right to say I don't fit in to the Rotation General community?  I would only have to believe that the discussion of a ban for something like this is because of biased moderators that might not like what they personally have seen of me.

 

29 minutes ago, Joshy said:

I think DaPainWayne did a good job explaining why it took a while to upgrade your verbal warning into a mute.  I do want it to be clear... no secrets... that just because we didn't immediately give the final punishment does not mean there was something wrong with it.  We're trying to look at the full picture when we make a decision and sometimes it takes a little bit of time and discussion to determine what we think might be best.  There isn't always a "right" answer.  It doesn't mean that we'll randomly fire off punishments 2 years later down the road, but within a day or two I think this is pretty justifiable; again: The topic began with discussing your ban, and so it took a little bit of time to work it down.  Gray area cases are not easy and so it's hard to come to a decision that everyone can align with.  You could certainly see why that's not in your best interest in this case, but I would imagine a recent CR election and its outcome... we weren't too immediate on the outcome of that due to investigating all the evidence... if we were to say "Eh, we didn't get to it fast enough..."  Would you be okay with that outcome too?  I don't think you would.  It's just another case like your case where we needed a little more time to do the best we can, and so it's not uncommon or inconsistent for us to do it.  I think you can also understand why it would not be good to make immediate decisions without looking into it or discussing the issues.

 

I think DaPainWayne is one of the best mods on your team, he seems very based and seems to have an understanding of what is a serious problem and what is not.  There is no full picture to look at, It has been 1-2 months with no infractions, and before your rule about bot commands it was another 2-3 months with no infractions, why pick this hill to die on just to keep the punishments rolling?  When do infractions no longer apply towards new punishments?  Months of time in a community like this is pretty huge.

 

It seems like you guys are just itching to ban people, you could survey almost anyone outside of the mod team and no one would find me to be any type of problem (besides maybe Duck), sometimes isolation leads to big issues, and maybe you are lacking some information.  No sane person outside of the mod team would see my list of infractions and think that guy needs to go.

 

 

Regardless, as you said not much will change because you think it's a working system, hopefully one day your team evolves the ability to see the difference between true malicious intent and someone making a mistake.

 

 

31 minutes ago, Roger Gunshot said:

Since this was left open for people to say something, Imma do it. In my opinion, this whole thing is reflective of what's wrong with Discord moderation in general. They take themselves too seriously, take the "job" too seriously, and are fairly strict with things. What I've gathered is that the gif was deleted and a verbal warning was given, which is fair. I've done the same thing as a senior admin for TTT MC (may it rest in peace). But NEVER have I gone searching through hours of deleted messages and gifs to find something that was a non-issue and turn into an issue. This seems EXTREMELY targeted if someone has the time do that. Are there prior things? Yes. Do they contribute? Sure. But should it amount to this? No. There seems to be a misalignment of priorities in moderation. Instead of just making sure everything stays as smooth as possible, actions taken recently have seemed to cause more harm than good, which should be an indication to look at what's possible being done wrong on the moderation end. 

As for the misalignment of priorities, why can moderators dig through hours of those deleted messages, gifs, and pics, to slap a mute on a person that they don't like and yet they're unable to do the same when there are individuals under the age of eighteen making sexual comments? Many times there are moderators ACTIVELY TALKING while it's going on. What kind of message is that sending? That moderators are okay with MINORS making sexual comments right in front of them, but God forbid you post a gif of bread falling off of a dude's chest.

 

As Joshy already said, it's not digging for hours to find someone to mute.  They already have it in their heads that they want to get rid of this person so when that specific person does something they make a larger deal out of it, so to a degree I would call that targeting.   Besides all of that their disregard for minors making sexual comments is pretty uncomfortable for everyone on the discord.

[Joshy 4,364 / 44,940]

2 hours ago, BestKevin said:

Do you expect me to be here for 2 years with 2-3 infractions for some of your loosely defined rules that are just guidelines? 

 

Great question.  The answer is: Yes.  Most people here have 0-1x infractions.  Some people after a year will have about 2-3x infractions.  Very few have 5x even after several years.

 

2 hours ago, BestKevin said:

why pick this hill to die on

 

Another excellent question.

 

I gave this some extra time which is more than we offer for most appeals.  I hope that was refreshing and demystified a few things.  Thanks!