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Posted  Edited by iLoveNapalm - Edit Reason: new idea

I obviously want this server to do well and have put in valuable input that has been accepted and put in the server befor, so, I'm here to do it again in a more organized fashion (also someone asked me to :P)

For one, the launch was not half bad, but it most definitely wasn't good. And here is where I will make suggestions to various things and explain them.

  1. Too low of a Starting Amount - It goes without saying and this might have already been remedied however the starting amount was so low, without the extra 40k that was given, it was simply not possible to do anything.
  2. Ammo Crisis - I'm sure the two Server Managers are already well aware but just for the record, the ammo issue needs to be fixed. It is far cheaper to buy a new gun than ammo.
  3. Laggy Cars - Not sure how to fix this however when I and many others with cars drive around in them, it is extremely laggy, not sure if it's client side or server side but everyone seemed to have the same problem
  4. Abusive Mayors - This needs to definitely be written in the rules ASAP. Several Mayors made "no speaking unless spoken to by police" laws and "no jaywalking" laws which most other servers have completely outlawed. It most definitely takes away from the RP when no one can speak and if they do, they immediately get arrested.
  5. Cops participating in Purge - In the movie and even in the PSA that plays when the Purge happens, Police are not to participate in the Purge or help at all, however, nowhere in the MOTD does it restrict police from participating in the Purge, which was semi-problematic today (lead to lots of unnecessary and random arrests and just police are able to go out and kill)
  6. Bitcoin Mining Safety - I raided a bitcoin miner today and was very happy to see his computer said "Sell Bitcoin: $64,000", however, whenever I clicked Sell, it just told me only the owner can sell, which I found very unfair.
  7. Keys - I don't see a point in these new "advanced" keys, they do the same thing as the normal dark rp ones and even take longer to lock/unlock things. It's also just an unnecessary download for first time players so I would propose scrapping it.
  8. Only 2 ATMs - There are 4 hackers and only two ATMs, so, either some hackers have to get removed or more ATMs should be added (preferably more ATMs added around the map)
  9. Subpar Money Printers - The Money Printer addon is not terrible however you can't even see how much upgrades are, to which, there are only 2, no overclockers, no silencers, just cooling and speed, so I think we can get a better printer addon.
  10. Inventory System - Most other DarkRP/Purge servers have pockets and inventories, this incentivizes people to buy shipments of guns so they can keep them and not just one gun at a time.
  11. Simple clarifying of the rules - One of the Server Managers are strictly against long and concise rules however I think that in a gamemode like Purge, it is necessary. Still, lots of grey areas exist, I even claim that one of the SMs rdmed me but in his mind it seemed completely fine. I advert raid, I "kill" him (half dead because paramedic can revive), I'm done raiding, I advert Over, a paramedic picks him up and then he kills me. Not only that, the rules say nothing about adverting raid and such during Purge, is it allowed, or do you still have to advert? These two (like many) are loopholes that ought to be patched because it's only a matter of time until someone malicious comes on to abuse them. 
  12. No Real Incentive for Purging - The Purge offers no real incentive, in the past, most Purge servers either gave out random weapons to everyone to go kill or had people drop a certain amount of money when killed to get people to purge. I think it would be nice to see one of those two or many of the other incentives be implemented for purging, because I just see the same half dozen people killing each other whilst everyone else stays inside their base.
  13. Hobo Chaos - (ADDED ON AFTER FIRST POST) Lots of hobos just prop block and build nonsense on the street, restricting cars and making stupid toll roads. Those need to be addressed in the rules as well

 

These are just the things I can think of off the top of my head however, without a doubt, more issues (big and small) still exist. If I think of any, I will gladly reply to this thread or just edit my original comment. Finally, if you are a friend of mine or anything among those lines, do not blindly follow what I say and agree with me. I invite anyone and everyone to disagree with me and my ideas because that is how you better a person. If you agree with what I have to say, agree with my reasoning and not because I'm the one saying it. General players of Purge, please feel free to comment, we can have a discussion if you disagree. And for the two Server Managers, if you guys wouldn't mind, I would like to see some sort of acknowledgment of said thread and also what you guys think of these issues (replying to the thread).

Edited by iLoveNapalm
new idea

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IMO I agree except for:

 

I think for #2 no speaking is excessive but no jaywalking laws are fine.

 

I dont really like perma inventories for #10 because dont you retain your inventory on death? Where as pockets drop everything. I like the server dropping your inventory on death and it incentivizes you to store things in your base which also makes bases more valuable to raid.

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6 minutes ago, JamalDavidson said:

IMO I agree except for:

 

I think for #2 no speaking is excessive but no jaywalking laws are fine.

 

I dont really like perma inventories for #10 because dont you retain your inventory on death? Where as pockets drop everything. I like the server dropping your inventory on death and it incentivizes you to store things in your base which also makes bases more valuable to raid.

No you know what, you got me thinking, Jay Walking is harsh but whatever, that's the game, but the speaking thing is definitely too far. Either way, the rules for the mayor need to be more concise. And for the inventory thing, honestly, I see an argument for both sides so I don't mind either but I know a lot of people would prefer the inventory. But for sure, there need to be some restrictions on the mayor and I would say jay walking is fine now. 


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I am for an inventory system, while it does suck to not "steal everything" when a player dies and it gives them a medium that can't be raided as easily, it does help with player morale when they aren't back to 0 when dying/disconnecting.  It could even be developed to RNG drop something from the inventory system on death so it's not 100% safe.

 

It doesn't have to be exceedingly large storage, just enough to keep a few things to jumpstart their next session.

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8 hours ago, BestKevin said:

I am for an inventory system, while it does suck to not "steal everything" when a player dies and it gives them a medium that can't be raided as easily, it does help with player morale when they aren't back to 0 when dying/disconnecting.  It could even be developed to RNG drop something from the inventory system on death so it's not 100% safe.

 

It doesn't have to be exceedingly large storage, just enough to keep a few things to jumpstart their next session.

I can definitely agree with this, and I think the printer dropping out of the pocket thing should still stay. I'm sure it's not very difficult in order to make sure printers can't go in inventories but gun shipments and armour and such can. And like you said, it doesn't have to be 16 slots, just make it 4 slots, each can take a maximum of one shipment.


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Posted  Edited by iLoveNapalm

A suggestion that I wouldn't call new, however very urgent: Before the server launched, I said that certain bases need to be against the rules (blackout bases and whatnot) and one of the Server Managers who will remain unnamed disagreed whole heartedly. The other Server Manager convinced said Server Manager that they should be outlawed and were thus labelled as against the rules in the MOTD shortly after. Since then, I've still been advocating for a more clear and precise MOTD. As of right now, I have constructed several bases that are completely in line with the rules but are almost impossible to raid. I'm not loop-holing or anything, my base designs are completely fair game, and one of them (which I would say is the hardest one to raid) doesn't even have any one way props. If the Server Managers want this server to thrive and continue to have players, I strongly suggest they look into implementing more restrictions and making the MOTD more precise. 

For example:

  1. Make double fading doors against the rules.
  2. Make there be a minimum "gap" between props that the defender is shooting through. 
  3. Although some would deem this as "radical", get rid of one way defenses all together. As of right now, the percentage of bases successfully raided compared to raids started is extremely low. Not enough people are getting raided because it is almost impossible to raid a base that employs one way props (and if the owner is inside), no matter how rudimentary the base might be. 
  4. Outlaw Law Enforcement officers from participating in the purge.
  5. "You MUST /advert ALL crimes! This includes: Raids, Carjacks, Mugs, Kidnaps, Bombings (Terrorist), etc. Also, please /advert when your raids are complete!". To me, considering how the "MUST" is capitalized, it implies you must advert these things during the purge as well. However, one of the Server Managers raided me during the purge with no advert and said that it is "common sense". That is objectively not a very good school of thought.
  6. "Your base must be possible to raid with reasonable measures.". This rule is what we call "vague and ambiguous". It is extremely vague and can be abused by staff very easily. 
  7. "Keypads must be visible, and not obstructed. Minimum of 4 second "granted" time." This says nothing about a delay. I could put a 10 second delay between the keypad being opened and the door actually opening, this can be abused very easily as well. 
  8. Still need rules restricting hobos and mayors. 

This is only the tip of the iceberg. If these concerns aren't important enough to add in to the MOTD, then they can and will be abused in the server. I can't write these into the MOTD, if I could, I would have before the server even launched, so someone has to push this initiative for the betterment of the server. If I didn't care about the server and just wanted to keep this to myself, I would not have made this post in the first place. So, now I will be teaching people how to make this base in order to push the Server Managers to outlaw them. I will happily be, and have been, the gadfly of this server, there needs to be change it seems that this is the only way to achieve it. Let us remind ourselves that I could've easily kept this to myself and had an unraidable base for the rest of my playtime. I mean, who would take the time out of their day to write this shit anyways? Odds are, I'm going to put an end to this log as the Server Managers don't seem to really care, even though one of them told me to start this in the first place. I mean look at the MOTD, it's a forum post. It is not very difficult to change the MOTD, at all. I am giving honest and sound advice, which, lest we forget, have been taken into account before. The keys that unlock from a distance got removed, there are more than 2 ATMS and so on. But some suggestions from my original post are still unanswered and they are left to sit out and rot. And at some point, I feel as if my efforts are in vain and futile. 

Edited by iLoveNapalm

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23 minutes ago, iLoveNapalm said:

But some suggestions from my original post are still unanswered and they are left to sit out and rot. And at some point, I feel as if my efforts are in vain and futile. 

 

"Hey guys. I wanted to put out a quick announcement. I appreciate all the suggestions you have been leaving in #purge-suggest. I do want to say that there will be a delay in deciding whether to accept or deny most things, depending on what the suggestion is. I am not ignoring certain ones, but simply some require extra time I don’t have or are lower priority. I promise you, I will get through them hopefully soon, and there are several of them I plan to implement once time permits. Thanks!!!"

 

If you'd read my announcement, you'd know that I am not ignoring suggestions, but they are simply being backlogged due to a large influx of them, as well as other things taking priority to be fixed/implemented. I can only do so much at a time outside living my personal life, which obviously always comes first. Updates will come as I have the time to make changes, not on a timeline based upon when suggestions are made. You should expect several days, if not over a week, for decisions to be made on some suggestions based upon when I have the time to look into, plan, and test them on a separate server. 

 

I already plan to update several things tomorrow, mostly changing current addons to better fit the interest of the server and it's playerbase. 


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29 minutes ago, DaPainWayne said:

 

"Hey guys. I wanted to put out a quick announcement. I appreciate all the suggestions you have been leaving in #purge-suggest. I do want to say that there will be a delay in deciding whether to accept or deny most things, depending on what the suggestion is. I am not ignoring certain ones, but simply some require extra time I don’t have or are lower priority. I promise you, I will get through them hopefully soon, and there are several of them I plan to implement once time permits. Thanks!!!"

 

If you'd read my announcement, you'd know that I am not ignoring suggestions, but they are simply being backlogged due to a large influx of them, as well as other things taking priority to be fixed/implemented. I can only do so much at a time outside living my personal life, which obviously always comes first. Updates will come as I have the time to make changes, not on a timeline based upon when suggestions are made. You should expect several days, if not over a week, for decisions to be made on some suggestions based upon when I have the time to look into, plan, and test them on a separate server. 

 

I already plan to update several things tomorrow, mostly changing current addons to better fit the interest of the server and it's playerbase. 

I understand your announcement but changing the prop limit and the MOTD are not increasingly difficult. I would say that removing that one key swep is more work than adding new rules or simply raising the prop limit. However, hopefully tomorrow's update is successful. I understand there are a lot of suggestions but I've been saying have strict rules even before the server was up. I don't want to seem rude but you were the one who was against it. I get that there are other things to do but this is game breaking stuff and the solution is easy and laid out. But, I'll give the benefit of the doubt for tomorrow.


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Posted  Edited by Joshy

Old Purge had a lot of detailed rules and it created a lot of confusion and problems- it was very prominent and everyone knew about it whoever was here at the time I think the Server Managers being inferred about were here to know about it too.  I would advocate against being too detailed in rules.  I think some of us have seen in our work areas when rules become too detailed what eventually happens for practical reasons is that people become more selective in which rules are more important or should be enforced, and it actually becomes a tool for people with bias because now "technically" everyone is at risk of being banned and so you can selectively choose how and who you want to enforce it against- just say rules are rules and show them MOTD Section I, rule 23a-1(b).128.  Of course the easy answer is to say "don't be selective" or have someone carefully watching server admins/managers, but I've definitely seen even in paid working environments the practicalities end up dominating the trend.

 

I understand the counter argument is that if there is no rule in place for it, then the leadership can enforce something that isn't in the rules.  I think you'll find most often, that people aren't banned for the sky being blue or radiation levels have exceeded 300 mrem at this altitude last Tuesday...  Person getting banned will you tell you that's what it was or that the admin didn't like the way they looked at them, but I find that extremely uncommon.  It's not to say that there are outliers, but I find it extremely uncommon and not a very good justification for overly complicating things.  Typically the most basic set of rules can cover a large majority of the cases (or act as kind of a fundamental set of rules) and then when there are strange outliers people usually talk about and try to determine the best outcome.

 

I think whoever is advocating for a simple set of rules based on history is making a good call.  Server is new and culture may have changed over the years so maybe if they come across situations justifying the need for new rules then I think they can fine tune along the way... untangling big and complicated rules is a lot harder than adding new rules.  Something else I've noticed I'm actually noticing this in Discord is that whenever we want to reduce or remove some rules... people still find ways to enforce or frown upon certain situations, and they'll reference past bans to justify the punishment even though it's based on an outdated rule.  It's very hard to take away old broken rules, and so you don't want to start off big with that.

Edited by Joshy

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4 hours ago, Joshy said:

Old Purge had a lot of detailed rules and it created a lot of confusion and problems- it was very prominent and everyone knew about it whoever was here at the time I think the Server Managers being inferred about were here to know about it too.  I would advocate against being too detailed in rules.  I think some of us have seen in our work areas when rules become too detailed what eventually happens for practical reasons is that people become more selective in which rules are more important or should be enforced, and it actually becomes a tool for people with bias because now "technically" everyone is at risk of being banned and so you can selectively choose how and who you want to enforce it against- just say rules are rules and show them MOTD Section I, rule 23a-1(b).128.  Of course the easy answer is to say "don't be selective" or have someone carefully watching server admins/managers, but I've definitely seen even in paid working environments the practicalities end up dominating the trend.

 

I understand the counter argument is that if there is no rule in place for it, then the leadership can enforce something that isn't in the rules.  I think you'll find most often, that people aren't banned for the sky being blue or radiation levels have exceeded 300 mrem at this altitude last Tuesday...  Person getting banned will you tell you that's what it was or that the admin didn't like the way they looked at them, but I find that extremely uncommon.  It's not to say that there are outliers, but I find it extremely uncommon and not a very good justification for overly complicating things.  Typically the most basic set of rules can cover a large majority of the cases (or act as kind of a fundamental set of rules) and then when there are strange outliers people usually talk about and try to determine the best outcome.

 

I think whoever is advocating for a simple set of rules based on history is making a good call.  Server is new and culture may have changed over the years so maybe if they come across situations justifying the need for new rules then I think they can fine tune along the way... untangling big and complicated rules is a lot harder than adding new rules.  Something else I've noticed I'm actually noticing this in Discord is that whenever we want to reduce or remove some rules... people still find ways to enforce or frown upon certain situations, and they'll reference past bans to justify the punishment even though it's based on an outdated rule.  It's very hard to take away old broken rules, and so you don't want to start off big with that.

 

First off, I did not play old purge nor have I read their MOTD. If their "detailed rules" caused lots of confusion and problems, that MOTD must not have been well written. If you want to talk about confusion, why don't you play on the server and see every purge when people type in chat "Cops can purge?" and anything of the like. Yesterday, I was playing as mayor and I had laws that in my book would fall under the rule saying that mayors can't have anything too crazy as laws. And on top of that, your contention that reads ; when there are too many rules, some tend to not be enforced, well that only happens for one reason. Because that rule is stupid. I've jaywalked in front of police officers several times in my life when we very well know that a police officer should give you a ticket/citation for jaywalking. But, he didn't care, that's because the American Government suffers the problem you talk about, too many rules and therefore not enforced. But, we have to think deeper Joshy, the reason some laws are not enforced is not because there are too many of them, it is because that specific law is viewed as unnecessary and stupid. Those police officers didn't give me a ticket because there are so many laws in America, it's because they think jaywalking isn't exactly a crime. Same thing about a work setting,  you work in an office cubicle and can't have "desk toys" on your desk? Well, I'm willing to bet that there is a big chance that your manager wouldn't care if you had a little bouncy ball on your desk so long as you're doing your work and etc. So, it is now established that people become "selective" about rules not because of the quantity of the rules, but because that specific rule is stupid. 

 

On to the next paragraph, when you write that a basic set of rules can cover a good portion of gameplay, for argument's sake, I'll agree. But even these rules don't meet the standard of being basic. Impossible to raid bases still exist, I build them, I teach others on how to build them and it is 100% fair game according the rules. Oh yeah and when I mean impossible, I don't mean difficult, the odds of you successfully raiding the bases I'm talking about are lower than you winning the lottery 5 times in a row. And on top of that, it doesn't even require any one way props, that's how overpowered it is. So even if you guys were to outlaw one way props (which you should), this base design, like many others, still exist and it is quite impossible to raid, hence why I say these rules don't even meet the basic threshold. 

 

For the last paragraph when you write that people still enforce rules that are "outdated" meaning removed, due to the context it was used in, that is a really big problem for the staff team. Staff are enforcing rules that no longer exist and that's somehow the MOTD's fault? So that doesn't make much sense, that's on the staff for enforcing outdated rules not the MOTD. And if you want to make the claim that people frown upon doing new things when the old rule was removed, although that may exist which if you don't mind me saying, I doubt, that still has no bearing on the MOTD. It is the people's choice to frown upon others and not only that, it's the person who's being frowned at personal choice to feel offended and give into that peer pressure. Seems like a toxic community. And when you say "It's very hard to take away old broken rules, and so you don't want to start off big with that.", I understand some people don't like radical change. So this reminded me of removing one way props, which is definitely radical. BlueSkyS made a suggestion to remove one way props and it was met with 8 thumbs ups and 16 thumbs downs. 16 thumbs down is a hell of a lot of disagreement so it would be a fair assessment to say that most people in purge want to keep one way props. Well, I'm sorry to break it to those 16 people and whoever else wants to keep one way props, it will be better for the server to remove them. Although very radical and against the grain, it's necessary. Of course, people won't like it one bit, I agree with you, but it is the better thing to do for the server. It's way too difficult to raid people and that is one of the many things that need to be removed in order for there to be some sort of balance between successful raids (when the defender is present) and unsuccessful raids.

 

 


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The real only change I'd like to see would be to bring old meth cooking back. Zeros system is overly complicated and it would be easy for a new player to get confused and end up wasting their starter 50k. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

The Beginning of the End: I should've posted this a while ago but I decided it would probably be best if I were to think about it for a while just to be sure of the conclusion I have reached. I honestly do believe the beginning of the end of this purge server has begun, specifically starting several days ago. This server had tremendous potential. You know, the great thing about GFL's Gmod division is that when a new server launches, for the first week, people play and give it amazing population. But, with these servers, they often have poor launches with bugs that chase away players in the long run. Purge was no different. Purge needed radical development and fixing to be done, even before the server publicly launched, but it never took place.

 

I credit the main downfall of Purge to the lack of a Developer SM. Purge/DarkRP is a very complicated game mode, it's not like TTT where you have 3 possible roles and simple interactions. Purge has dozens and dozens of jobs, some beta tested better than others. Not only that, look at what I was advocating for, even before the server launched, that there would have to be a definitive and comprehensive MOTD, which too was ignored. I ask of you to scroll up and look at all my suggestions and see how many were taken seriously and implemented. Out of the 21 suggestions I made (13+8), 6 were taken seriously and changed, about 25%. Not only that, there were random and dare I say, unnecessary changes that were done instead of the more pressing ones I suggested. I want it to be known that I didn't pull these suggestions out of a hat either, these came from the hearts and minds of the players, not I. So, all in all, the lack of a Developer SM and ignoring players were by far the biggest killers. In my mind, the only possible way to really jumpstart this server back is to have these radical changes, and this only grants the server a chance of coming back to life, not a guarantee. I mean, just look at the numbers on the graph, 2 weeks after release and the results are grim. And I've seen this notion of there being exams going on and holidays lowering the population, but I think that's completely irrelevant. For one, take a look at TTT Anarchy, at the time of this post, 22:32 PST, there are 31/40 players in anarchy, this late at night, and mind you, on a Sunday. Another reason why I don't exactly buy into that notion is, why launch it then? If you know that people are going to have exams 2 weeks after launch, why launch? Why rush it?

 

All in all, the point of this log was for me to gather what people thought of the server and plop them here to be taken seriously. Unfortunately, it seems once again, the people's pleas were ignored and now the server is suffering because of it.

 

In the end, I hope I'm wrong. I want GFL to prosper, but time and time again, I see before my very own eyes, repeating patters that lead servers to die. Look at what I did in TTT MC, I was called an alarmist for saying the server was going to die if Loke and Jinzu got power, there was no one else who was more of an advocate for denying them two than I. And now look, ask yourself, where has our TTT MC gone? Jinzu and Loke ran off and made their own server that has players, where's our server?

 

TL;DR: I believe Purge is dying because of the lack of a Developer SM and suggestions were ignored. e1f00e4942dab1ebdadd59b5025b10db.png.6a1b10a0b9dbdd521fd85bf16710cb23.png


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10 hours ago, MutedMike said:

I do wanna comment on something. Saying that the SMs are ignoring players is straight up untrue and just unfair to say. Wayne is a good SM, and I find it really hard to, from an objective standpoint, find any crucial flaws in his work that was 100% his fault. The main problems I see is the little amount of staff that is very knowledgeable of how the server SHOULD run, and the MOTD, neither of which should be blamed on Wayne and only Wayne. Purge opened up with a LOT of problems, and LOTS of people pointing out said problems. Salad is also an SM, but he's also a council member, so he can't really be as active as he wants to be on the server since he has a lot more on his plate than just purge, leaving Wayne to do a decent amount of the heavy work. He was so dedicated to this server that he left basically everything in CWRP, a server he has cherished for a very long time, just to make sure things went smoothly. He works really hard when he's on the server to the point where his sleeping habits aren't even healthy, getting at least 3-4 hours of sleep just to get shit done. Saying he's blatantly ignoring is not fair at all to Wayne.

 

I'll argue more if I feel like it but I'm at work so

Ok for one, where you wrote "Salad is an SM", that's just not true. Personally, I find it weird that Salad even liked that comment when something untrue was written about him. I mean, don't take it from me, take it from Salad himself. In my mind this is pretty self explanatory but for clarity, I will explain anyway. Kevin asked when Purge is getting a Dev SM, and Salad said "Whenever he asks for one" not "I'm the Dev SM". So, just to make this clear, when you said Salad is Dev SM, that's just blatantly false. 

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 To my next contention, when you wrote "The main problems I see is the little amount of staff that is very knowledgeable of how the server SHOULD run, and the MOTD, neither of which should be blamed on Wayne", I have to disagree with this as well. Mainly the part where it says "and the MOTD". Wayne wrote the MOTD, he posted it, therefore he approved it. So that would mean Wayne is actually at fault for the problems with the MOTD. I told him personally to rewrite it, multiple times at that. So to say the MOTD is not Wayne's fault is just not true, he orchestrated it and chooses what's in the MOTD and what's not. There is no other SM, as of right now, he runs the show, so how could it be anyone else's fault?

 

Anyways, I'm looking forward for your response, you got 8 likes on your post, a chunk of which are respected GFL higher ups, so you might have something going for yourself there.

 

And you know, I saw the comments made in purge general whilst I was busy at work, most saying the way that I went about this whole situation was wrong. To that I say look at what I caused in Purge General. Uninformed and distanced people would just say I caused chaos and arguments and fighting. Well, let's think critically. As a precursor, I am incredibly straight-forward, I'm no different in real life, it's not just an act I do online. If I see something that doesn't make sense, I will bring it up so the wrong can be right. When teachers have done things that students did not approve of, everyone in the classroom would stay silent because they did not want to bad mouth the teacher. You know who voiced the concern that everyone was thinking, me, and the same applies here. Sure, what I'm doing is aggressive (also I saw people say I'm passive-aggressive, I would be honest and say I'm just aggressive, in grave times like these, there is no room for passivity) but being aggressive sparked so much debate and dialogue in purge general, which was truly beautiful. People disagreeing with each other, and voicing their opinions, that is just outright perfection, and that would not have happened had I not been aggressive. You know, if people were not aggressive in dangerous times, who knows where we would be today. Was it passiveness that helped the Allies win WW2? Or was it the aggressive nature of the mobilization of the West that helped defeat the Nazis? All throughout history, so many problems have been solved by vocal and aggressive people. I mean look at modern day movements. Was what Black Lives Matter did Passive or Aggressive? They were aggressive and got their message out, I'm doing the same. 


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(Thank you @Mister Spiffy for the banner)

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