Quality of Life Changes for Diddle Extreme

[Loccstan 62 / 3,340]

As some of you may know, @Vauff has created an extreme mode for Diddle using stripper. In this "extreme" mode,  humans must beat all 5 ministages in some fixed order and then complete the final stage in 1 round. This entire experience takes up 1 hour of playtime and perhaps is even harder than Santassination extreme mode. We played Diddle extreme recently a few times and unfortunately there are several issues which make the gameplay experience less than satisfying. I will list them out and what my suggestions for changes are. This is not about making diddle extreme easier, but rather to make it less frustrating and more fun.

 

• Mortars on Omaha Beach stage. The mortars give very little warning and strike randomly. It is pretty much impossible to avoid damage and if you are unlucky, death, no matter how skilled you are. I suggest that the mortars be given a indicator like the meteor in Minas or alternatively reduce the mortar damage and frequency. 
• Shrek npc health scaling. As far as I can tell, the Shrek npc health is fixed and does not scale with number of players. This might be a problem since we play Shrek in the later stages where there are very few humans left to kill it. The Shrek npc should scale with number of players. Another solution might be to make the torches from Weeaboo damage the Shrek npc. Also, there should be a boss hp counter. 
• Torch cooldown indicator. The torches from the Weeaboo stage have a 300 second cooldown outside of that stage. Unfortunately, entwatch can only keep track of the 20 second cooldown for torches within the stage. Not knowing which torches are off cooldown makes it very hard to coordinate their use. The torches need some sort of alternative visual indicator when it is off cooldown. Another small issue is that the torch physical model blocks bullets.
• Cake bug. The last time we played Diddle extreme, the second cake (healing) item that is picked up could not be used. Fixing this problem should be pretty self explanatory. 
• (Optional) Grenade refill. It kind of sucks that you only have 2 nades available for an one hour stage.  If possible, there should be a way to replenish grenades in between the  ministages.
• (Optional) Bhop while running from giant Shrek. When running from the giant Shrek, zombies can bhop and catch up to the humans. This is a problem when zombies vastly outnumber humans because there is very little humans can do to slow them down. Setting zombies on fire with nades do not prevent bhopping. Also, bhopping humans can attract the Shrek npc and kill fellow humans. Bhopping should be disabled for zombies and possibly for humans if it is not needed for particular strats.

 

I believe with these changes, Diddle extreme could be made into a fun and challenging map for events. If anyone else have suggestions for how to make Diddle extreme a better experience, feel free to comment as well.

 

On a related note, Luffaren has plans to tweak the costs of the items in the final stage. Namely, the disco push will be increased to 50 coins and diddle cannon decreased to 40 coins. I am unsure how these changes will play out with Diddle extreme.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Loccstan

[Chewie2k 103 / 3,801]

Please don't limit bhop that's so gay thanks

[DUSTY 170 / 4,093]

I've been saying there needs to be a system to give players who have beaten more minimaps priority in the shop for regular diddle. Now even more so because we are gonna be playing the one big stage for so long  only to have some dumb fuck buy the wrong thing. I don't know how this could be done on extreme with everyone having to beat the 5 consecutively, maybe just have the shop open and first come first serve so at least the bhoppers can get them. But just pointing out how mad everyone would be if some zoomer got selected and purchases the wrong thing.

[asdfasdfxcv 82 / 2,298]

1st stage weeb grab torch dont use it save at least 2 of it 2nd stage shrek save it again until the shrek npc part. 1 person bait it in the tree so it stuck the rest spray with negev after it die use a torch if it didnt die and get out of mi house is trigger you can make a teleport glitch just like dreamin have it. 1 torch use it and zombie will get stuck and on fire toss a nade right after so they dont do anything done 2 stage.

[Loccstan 62 / 3,340]

2 hours ago, DUSTY said:

I've been saying there needs to be a system to give players who have beaten more minimaps priority in the shop for regular diddle. Now even more so because we are gonna be playing the one big stage for so long  only to have some dumb fuck buy the wrong thing. I don't know how this could be done on extreme with everyone having to beat the 5 consecutively, maybe just have the shop open and first come first serve so at least the bhoppers can get them. But just pointing out how mad everyone would be if some zoomer got selected and purchases the wrong thing.

 

I think the current system should be fine. By the time we get to end of 5 stages, there will be already a pretty large trim. I am estimating that at most 30 people would be alive and most of them should be Diddle veterans. 

Edited April 18, 2020 by Loccstan

[Aurora is smelly 192 / 5,018]

All y’all haters out here gonna say my strategy is dumb but Omaha first is the only way

 

Here’s why:

All of you are like you can’t do it first it has the biggest trim, but all you have to do is shut up and listen to the bombs. But Banjo you are wrong we tried it and we lost so many teammates. Did you actually listen to the bombs or did you swallow your mic and bitch and moan the entire time? But we need the torches to get past every level. Yes but what’s going to happen when a torch dies on Omaha to a bomb and that torch is lost forever?  The bombs aren’t all rng idk why the fuck your think that all you have to do is listen and dodge. The entire time you guys spent bitching about my strategy to do Omaha first well how far did your strategy get I can’t remember a time when you actually beat shrek successfully with a decent amount alive. 

[DUSTY 170 / 4,093]

Does it not say the mortar warning is shorter which means less time to react? Even so I would do Omaha first so we know if we should just slay for another round if too many die.

[Ryannn 103 / 4,218]

I like all the changes besides the nerfing shrek npc hp and the disable bhop part on that level, as well as the grenade refills. Bug fixes are fine but its called extreme because its supposed to be hard. The mortars are a little bit too rng and hard for people who have bad audio too imo.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Elemental

[Luffaren 108 / 3,201]

Been fiddling a bunch yesterday/this morning, with help from Vauff:

- The mortar-strikes on omaha beach will now have visible indicators (but only for extreme mode)

- Push cost from 40 to 50

- Diddlecannon cost from 50 to 40

- Torches should indicate their cooldown through disappearing during the 300s (only for extreme)

- Placed wall-items now take proper auto-damage from being placed near a teleport destination

- The 2nd door on shrek breaks automatically after ~5 seconds or so, to prevent delays/exploits

- The cake-heal item should now function properly on extreme (where it previously only spawned one instance instead of two)

- The diddle shop now has proper price-texts shown for each item

- The torches shouldn't block bullets anylonger

- A background scoring-system has been added, which will prioritize players for the shop later on depending on certain actions (score gets added from certain actions, like stage-wins/rounds played)

 

If/when things seem to run just fine, it'll be released to the public 🤠

[willywilson 199 / 5,580]

With these new changes, I think we should go

 

Weeb --> turtle (because lasers will trim and we need to get used to them at the boss and we get heal) --> shrek (we will need heal to prevent npc trim) --> dicklet (we will need the heal before final diddle level + we need as many people as possible to live through this, also it needs less practice than turtle or shrek) --> omaha (ez holds, and now we can see the indication for the bombs? ez win baby)

 

turtle and shrek are first because we need the most practice on those levels and bosses due to turtle having boss lasers, and shrek having npc trim

 

tl;dr

 

weeb

turtle

shrek

dick

omaha

Edited April 22, 2020 by willywilson

[asdfasdfxcv 82 / 2,298]

why dont you do weeb shrek turtle so the boss scale a little bit more ? since there will be people going to die to the npc because they all doorhugging.

turtle heal gonna replace with diglet heal and diglet heal will be using on omaha beach at the door before we run to the chopper. so people have more chance to survive

[Loccstan 62 / 3,340]

2 hours ago, willywilson said:

With these new changes, I think we should go

 

Weeb --> turtle (because lasers will trim and we need to get used to them at the boss and we get heal) --> shrek (we will need heal to prevent npc trim) --> dicklet (we will need the heal before final diddle level + we need as many people as possible to live through this, also it needs less practice than turtle or shrek) --> omaha (ez holds, and now we can see the indication for the bombs? ez win baby)

 

turtle and shrek are first because we need the most practice on those levels and bosses due to turtle having boss lasers, and shrek having npc trim

 

tl;dr

 

weeb

turtle

shrek

dick

omaha

have you considered doing shrek first? The reasoning being, if shrek is done first, we will be able to practice it the most since it is probably the stage that most likely results in trim. Also if we fail on shrek, the time wasted is also minimized. Shrek is pretty RNG as well due to how npc targeting works, so we keep on retrying the stage until we beat it with good numbers.

 

7 hours ago, Luffaren said:

Been fiddling a bunch yesterday/this morning, with help from Vauff:

- The mortar-strikes on omaha beach will now have visible indicators (but only for extreme mode)

- Push cost from 40 to 50

- Diddlecannon cost from 50 to 40

- Torches should indicate their cooldown through disappearing during the 300s (only for extreme)

- Placed wall-items now take proper auto-damage from being placed near a teleport destination

- The 2nd door on shrek breaks automatically after ~5 seconds or so, to prevent delays/exploits

- The cake-heal item should now function properly on extreme (where it previously only spawned one instance instead of two)

- The diddle shop now has proper price-texts shown for each item

- The torches shouldn't block bullets anylonger

- A background scoring-system has been added, which will prioritize players for the shop later on depending on certain actions (score gets added from certain actions, like stage-wins/rounds played)

 

If/when things seem to run just fine, it'll be released to the public 🤠

Thank you @Luffaren and @Vauff for making this possible!

Edited April 22, 2020 by Loccstan

[willywilson 199 / 5,580]

39 minutes ago, Loccstan said:

have you considered doing shrek first? The reasoning being, if shrek is done first, we will be able to practice it the most since it is probably the stage that most likely results in trim. Also if we fail on shrek, the time wasted is also minimized. Shrek is pretty RNG as well due to how npc targeting works, so we keep on retrying the stage until we beat it with good numbers.

 

Yes; but doesn't the shrek npc deal 100 damage? meaning if we had 150 from the cake, trim would be minimized? 

[Loccstan 62 / 3,340]

2 minutes ago, willywilson said:

 

Yes; but doesn't the shrek npc deal 100 damage? meaning if we had 150 from the cake, trim would be minimized? 

Yeah I think we have a better shot with 150 hp, but I am still worried lol. That stage seems cursed. Other than that, I think your stage order is great.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Loccstan

[Luffaren 108 / 3,201]

Stuff has been fixed up with some heavy offline testing during the night:

- Push-item price increased to 80.

- Added safety-logic to the final DiddleDick boss to prevent a rare issue where it can stop attacking completely.

- Your player score (shown in TAB) should now match the shop-bias-score as closely as possible, allowing you to see who's most likely to access the shop.

- Killing players will now give you 1 shop-bias-score.

- Nerfed green wall HP-addition (from 70 to 50 for each T).

- Green walls now auto-damage themselves if stacked with other green walls (red and yellow are unaffected).

- Tweaked/fixed issue where the walls didn't seem to auto-damage themselves when placed on teleporters.

- Added optional support for saving/storing your shop-bias-score in case you disconnected, but it needs a custom plugin to work (so don't expect it to be in place).

 

I gave the files to Vauff for now, gotta go die in bed because 7am. 😫

[Loccstan 62 / 3,340]

On 5/9/2020 at 9:59 PM, Luffaren said:

Stuff has been fixed up with some heavy offline testing during the night:

- Push-item price increased to 80.

- Added safety-logic to the final DiddleDick boss to prevent a rare issue where it can stop attacking completely.

- Your player score (shown in TAB) should now match the shop-bias-score as closely as possible, allowing you to see who's most likely to access the shop.

- Killing players will now give you 1 shop-bias-score.

- Nerfed green wall HP-addition (from 70 to 50 for each T).

- Green walls now auto-damage themselves if stacked with other green walls (red and yellow are unaffected).

- Tweaked/fixed issue where the walls didn't seem to auto-damage themselves when placed on teleporters.

- Added optional support for saving/storing your shop-bias-score in case you disconnected, but it needs a custom plugin to work (so don't expect it to be in place).

 

I gave the files to Vauff for now, gotta go die in bed because 7am. 😫

 

Hey @Luffaren, thanks for spending time on this! We have played Diddle normal mode a couple times in the past few days. There doesnt seem to have any bugs and problems with the latest stripper so far. The final stage is much more challenging now due to the wall and push nerfs, but in a fun way. I hope we can get a good enough team in the upcoming weeks to beat normal mode. The green wall seems to break extremely fast now. Did you reduce the stacking self-damage yet or is it still at its original value?

 

Also the optimal strat now is to get 1 push, 1 heal, 1 big dick, 3 red walls, and 1 green wall. During final boss fight, push first, then use big dick to slow zombies, and finally wall off the gate with the red walls (which dont take damage when stacked). Also everyone must get in to the shoot the boss. 

 

We did not get a chance to test extreme unfortunately. I feel that the time given to vote for extreme is too short (its only about 8 seconds before humans TP). We never gotten more than 40% votes for extreme. In Santassinsation, we can get about 1 minute of time to vote for extreme. Perhaps it might be a good idea to enable extreme voting during the warmup too? 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Loccstan