Haxray's T shop Revamp Suggestion

[Cpt.Haxray 774 / 13,615]

While I personally think the T shop on Anarchy is MUCH better than the average server's t shop, I do think there is room for improvement, and I also feel like people are jumping on the wrong horse at blaming certain items for being overpowered(For example, the Bungers), so im going to discuss most of the T shop items in this thread, and explain my opinions on each, and explaining why I think a few items should be buffed, nerfed, improved, or flat out removed. I'm going to leave out some stuff that there isn't much to talk about, like the Body Armor or Decoy. 

 

Radar:

Spoiler

 

Opinion: Removed from all evil shops. Given baseline to all Evil Roles.

Reasoning:
The radar is a fantastic tool. There is nothing inherently wrong with it. However, there has been plenty of cases on the server where people complained about not being able to find the last person as T roles that do not have access to the shop or other evil roles. In most of these cases, we added a Radar to them baseline. Which begs the question, why not add the Radar baseline to all Evil Roles including the Ts that have a shop? While this is inherently a buff by giving them something easily worth a credit for free, it would also dramatically cut down on the amount of times people wander a map lost as they dont have a radar and are struggling to find the last person. 

If this proves to be too strong, you could always reduce the amount of starting credits by one to reflect this change.

 

 

Advanced Disguiser/Normal Disguiser:

Opinion: Fine/Not Fine

Reasoning:

Spoiler

 

The advanced disguiser is a strong T shop item, and one of the few straight upgrades to a default item(well, almost straight upgrade) that i am fine with, due to the extra work required to obtain a disguise(Not counting the chat callout bug which is annoying). However, while it isn't exactly a strict upgrade over the original disguiser, the original disguiser is just so clunky with turning it on and off that its intended upsides over the advanced disguiser(doesn't require finding and "knifing" a person or body first,  can be toggled on and off at any time, completely hides your identity instead of using a fake one, etc) end up not making it feel worthwhile to purchase. 

 

Personally im of the opinion that the default TTT disguiser is way too weak due to the clunky nature of using it, and should either be buffed/redesigned to make using it less clunky, or flat out removed from the shop. There's no point in keeping useless stuff in the shop. 

 

 

AWP:
Opinion: Not Fine/Should be Removed

 

Reasoning:
 

Spoiler

I've shared my opinion on this before, but I am heavily against the idea of a 1 shot weapon. The existence of a weapon that simply 1 shots someone by existing for the cost of spending a credit is so strongly against one of the core intended components of TTT(that traitors should not be 1 man armies and require deception and working with their teammates to win) that I cannot find any way to justify it. The fact that the entire core concept of the AWP is the fact that it 1 shots means you cannot easily nerf the weapon either without rendering it either completely useless/underpowered, or still retaining the same problem of a 1 shot weapon. The AWP's sheer power level(Eliminate 2 people for the cost of a credit, no problems or questions asked outside of a loud noise) means it is almost always one of the first buys of any Traitors or other Evils who have the AWP in their shop. Even if its not being bought specifically for being used as a "Kill 2 people" button, it can simply be held onto and used as a panic button incase of a close-range attack, and it is still effective. Nothing feels worse than getting awped knowing there's nothing you could have done about it.

The AWP should not exist in any shop on the server. At the very least, it should be removed from evil shops. It is a nasty crutch, and an incredibly powerful first buy with literally no downsides attached to the purchase. The only potential way it can go wrong is if you miss the shots(Or if hit reg goes horrifically wrong), or if someone spots you holding it out and shooting, which is no different from being spotted using any other kind of weapon to kill someone. Evil roles do not need access to a free 1 shot weapon, there is more than enough options in the other tools available. 

 

Bullet Bill:
Opinion: Fine

 

Reasoning:
 

Spoiler

The Bullet Bill is a very solid and well designed T shop weapon. It might not be purchased much right now, but that is of no fault of the Bullet Bill launcher itself. It is simply flat out outclassed by the other options that exist currently, such as the AWP. The Bullet Bill accomplishes its intended goal, a weapon able to be used at range to deal AOE damage, or home in and chase people down, or to jump around a corner and spam it, very well and in a balanced way. It cannot 1 shot a person but it can still put out a lot of damage quickly, and can still be incredibly dangerous. it is not an auto buy into every situation, as it is worse than a lot of normal weapons in a 1v1 situation, but this is a good thing. 

 

Gnome Grenade:
Opinion: Fine

Reasoning:

Spoiler

Its a basic frag grenade with a slightly long fuse, and a very distinctive sound when it is about to be detonated and when it is thrown. It is one of the most well balanced Frag grenades i've seen on any server, and only suffers due to being put up to compete with stuff like the AWP or the Slams. 

 

AK-47:
Opinion: Fine

Reasoning:

Spoiler

The Ak is a powerful rifle. However, it cannot instant kill someone like much of the other options, has a very distinct look to it, and is super loud. it is perfectly fine as a "boring" but practical option.

 

Chicken Egg:
Opinion: Not Fine(Too Weak) 

Reasoning: 
 

Spoiler

 

The Chicken is certainly a rather funny and silly weapon, summoning an angry chicken that makesloud clucking noises as it attacks people, and explodes after a certain amount of time or when killed leaving behind a bucket of Chicken. It is great, and I do not want to see it removed. However, in its current state it is way too weak for the credit cost, especially when compared to the Duck/Bunger Grenade(which i feel is actually reasonable power for the cost). The chicken dies too easily and doesn't deal that much damage when attacking players, and the left over KFC means it is usually making an innocent player stronger by giving them more health. It is not worth purchasing ever except as a joke.

 

The chicken should have its damage buffed drastically to reflect the fact it only spawns one chicken, and with the health it drops. I do not know how easy it is to modify its damage in comparison to the Bunger/Duck Grenade, but its damage on both its explosion and attack should be increased. If the bungers individually do 20 damage at the time of posting, the Chicken should deal dramatically increased damage by comparison. 50, as insane as it sounds at first, seems a more reasonable amount due to the behavior of the chicken, the fact it only spawns 1, how fast it dies, and the potential of getting extra health from killing it

 

 

Jarate:
Opinion: Fine

Reasoning:
 

Spoiler

I know a lot of people think the Jarate is too weak, but i personally feel it is fine as is, and the main problem is people attempting to throw it at too close of a range, and by comparing it to other options(Looking at you, Slams). At most it could maybe deserve a splash radius increase, or a increase in duration of how long the Piss lasts, but otherwise it is a perfectly fine item. 

 

M4 Slam:
Opinion: Not Fine(Needs Nerf)

Reasoning:

Spoiler

 

I really do like the slam in concept, trip mines are fun, as are manually detonated traps. However, the slam has one major flaw/downside in its current behavior, one that is particularly annoying and renders it a superior option to a lot of other t shop items. The delay between throwing a slam and Detonating the Slam is way too short, resulting it in it being one of the best crowd clearing options and rendering the Jarade and Gnome Grenade bad by comparison. In addition, unlike the other options you get multiple slams. 

 

Personally, i feel there should be a longer delay between throwing the slam and being able to detonate it, and you should only get one slam when purchasing the item, instead of the 2 you currently get. This would bring it much more in line with the other options, and leave it more as the Trap tool it was intended to be. 

 

 

Silenced M4A1:
Opinion: Not Fine(too weak)

Reasoning:

Spoiler

I know the Silenced M4 is one of the default T shop weapons, but it is ungodly bad and is likely not salvageable. its intended purpose, being a strong weapon option that a T can buy and kill people without making screams, is counter-acted by how loud its Silencer shots are, and the iconic sound it makes when firing. In addition, it competes with the Ak-47 in Design space. I believe the m4 should be tossed, the Ts havea much better silenced option in the form of the Silenced Pistol, and the Ak performs better as a 'Combat" weapon. 

 

Newton Launcher:
Opinion: Not Fine(Needs Nerf):

Reasoning:

Spoiler

The Newton Launcher baseline desperately needs a buff and is definitely on the weak side. However, the method of how the weapon was buffed, buffing its fire-rate, has resulted in the opposite problem where it is now WAY too strong. It is too easy to spam it and send people flying with no way to protect themselves, or trap people in corners for extended periods of time. I believe the fire-rate deserves a nerf, and in return, the knockback on its charged shot should be increased. 

 

Poltergeist:
Opinion: Not Fine(Needs Buff/Should be Removed)

Reasoning:

Spoiler

The Poltergeist is an iconic Bad weapon. Even in base TTT the Poltergeist is awful. The idea on paper is great, but in practice it is too random and unreliable. Simply boosting the damage doesnt help, as it is inherently way too unreliable to ever be worth a purchase, ontop of the sheer size of the weapon easily giving away anyone trying to use it. Personally I believe it should be removed from the shop, but I would not be against attempts to buff the weapon to be less bad. 

 

Knife:
Opinion: Should remain baseline/Should Not 1 shot people from full health

 

Reasoning:

Spoiler

Many people are used to the knife 1 shotting people as a lot of servers buff it to that level, feeling the baseline one is too weak. THis is a mistake. The baseline knife is terrible when used against a full health person, yes, but it is not intended to be used that way. The point of the knife is to instantly kill anyone at 50 health or less. it is intended to go with hit and run tactics, and when used in such a method is still incredibly powerful, due to the speed of the kill and the fact it is one of the few truly silent methods of killing someone  in the game. Making the knife 1 shot results in the same problem the AWP has, where every one buys it instantly for a credit as it is now a "get rid of someone for free" button. 

 

Jihad:
Opinion: Fine(Might need a small nerf to time before detonation):

Reasoning:

Spoiler

The Jihad is a staple weapon on many servers. While it is in-fact in questionable  taste, and results in a lot of kills if done right, it is also done at the cost of a Traitor's life, and compared to other options, the Innocents have a chance to shut down the Jihad before it happens. While I personally view the Jihad as fine, i could see the reasoning/justification behind slightly nerfing the time before detonation after using it to give innocents more time to react(and also let people use longer custom Jihad sounds).

 

Error Flashbang:
Opinion: Fine(Might need a buff, need to play around with it more).

 

Trident/Harpoon:
Opinion: Not Fine(Needs Nerf)(Should be kept for the special Randomat round though)

 

Reasoning:
 

Spoiler

Much like the 1 shot knife and the AWP, the Harpoon/Trident. simply exists as a "Delete this" button. While it requires way more skill on the user's behalf than the other ones, it is still an incredibly strong weapon. I do not want to completely remove the weapon however, and feel like its damage should simply be reduced from 100 to 90(Or perhaps 80), to encourage not using it on a full health target but still being rewarding to land on a person at range if they are slightly injured ahead of time. 

Alternatively, due to the increased difficulty in using over the Knife or Awp, it could be raised to cost 2 credits and it would likely be fine, the cost preventing it from being a mandatory must buy and the downsides of needing to aim it properly making up for the 1 shot potential. 

 

Killer Bungers:
Opinion: Fine

Reasoning:
 

Spoiler

I know a lot of people think the bungers need a damage nerf, but I personally think they are fine as is. The point of the Bungers is to help break up groups, and it is incredibly effective at it. Unlike the Gnome Grenade, it trades off potential instant kills(If thrown correctly), for a more constant pressure and active distraction that is guarateed to inflict some kind of damage or harm. It is fine, and reducing the damage risks rendering it being too weak by comparison.

 

[Burriss75 34 / 2,096]

29 minutes ago, Cpt.Haxray said:

The fact that the entire core concept of the AWP is the fact that it 1 shots

AWP doesn't 1 shot through armor depending on where you hit

 

29 minutes ago, Cpt.Haxray said:

It cannot 1 shot a person

This is incorrect, bullet bill 1 shots on direct hit and does world damage not player damage so it will go through marker, body armor and actually allows jester to kill people

 

29 minutes ago, Cpt.Haxray said:

It is too easy to spam it and send people flying with no way to protect themselves

This is only if people sprint jump, staying on the ground and sprinting towards the person firing practically ignores any pushing

 

29 minutes ago, Cpt.Haxray said:

The point of the knife is to instantly kill anyone at 50 health or less

If they're in knife range and below 50 hp just rifle them to the chest or shotgun them. The knife gives you a single kill for 1 credit whereas most t weapons can net you far more kills and have much more strategical use. It should stay at 1 shot potential

 

29 minutes ago, Cpt.Haxray said:

the Ts havea much better silenced option in the form of the Silenced Pistol

Silenced m4 is less noticeable when holding then the silenced pistol and is much better at killing people

 

29 minutes ago, Cpt.Haxray said:

I know a lot of people think the Jarate is too weak

It is by far way too weak to be used often as its very noticeable and by the time youve switched to it, thrown it and switched back you probably could have just shotgunned the person

 

29 minutes ago, Cpt.Haxray said:

Personally, i feel there should be a longer delay between throwing the slam and being able to detonate it, and you should only get one slam when purchasing the item, instead of the 2 you currently get

Slam definitely needs a small nerf to delay but nothing major as you generally only get a major amount of kills from the first slam and having 2 slams allows you to trip mine a common walkway while also being able to disperse large crowds easily without suiciding (Jihad) or risking them just running away (c4)

 

29 minutes ago, Cpt.Haxray said:

Alternatively, due to the increased difficulty in using over the Knife or Awp, it could be raised to cost 2 credits and it would likely be fine,

Same reasoning as knife, 2 credits for a single kill is god awful and would result in no one buying it. Trident is also a super high skill weapon at longer ranges so if someones able to hit it they should be rewarded with a 1 hit kill

 

 

ID disguiser while fun to use is very underpowered as it requires using an unided body otherwise you can discover them through tab and you have to constantly switch identities everytime someone figures out who you're currently using through the chat bind bug haxray mentioned

31 minutes ago, Cpt.Haxray said:

50, as insane as it sounds at first, seems a more reasonable amount due to the behavior of the chicken, the fact it only spawns 1

Chickens don't attack ts and will drop more egg grenades over time allowing ts to overheal and get back hp whenever they want without using sandwiches

Edited February 15, 2021 by Burriss75

[Alexis 578 / 12,012]

16 hours ago, Cpt.Haxray said:

I've shared my opinion on this before, but I am heavily against the idea of a 1 shot weapon. The existence of a weapon that simply 1 shots someone by existing for the cost of spending a credit is so strongly against one of the core intended components of TTT(that traitors should not be 1 man armies and require deception and working with their teammates to win) that I cannot find any way to justify it.

Personally, I agree with this. One shot weapons just bring a great issue when it comes to TTT, there are times Traitors get caught making a stupid Mistake and they can easily get out of it by just one shotting you, and if it didn't work, the next shot is practically right back in the chamber since the weapon cocks really quickly.

 

16 hours ago, Cpt.Haxray said:

The chicken should have its damage buffed drastically to reflect the fact it only spawns one chicken, and with the health it drops. I do not know how easy it is to modify its damage in comparison to the Bunger/Duck Grenade, but its damage on both its explosion and attack should be increased.

I agree. This weapon is mostly just a distraction that does nothing, or is only used to heal oneself. Nothing else. Needs a Buff.

 

16 hours ago, Cpt.Haxray said:

I know a lot of people think the Jarate is too weak, but i personally feel it is fine as is, and the main problem is people attempting to throw it at too close of a range, and by comparing it to other options(Looking at you, Slams).

I think this weapon is greatly Underpowered, and it needs some sort of Buff.

 

16 hours ago, Cpt.Haxray said:

The delay between throwing a slam and Detonating the Slam is way too short, resulting it in it being one of the best crowd clearing options and rendering the Jarade and Gnome Grenade bad by comparison.

I think this weapon is in a tough spot, increasing the Delay will kill quick movement explosive kills when throwing them into a room. But honestly, it should be used more strategically instead of a run and bomb and run situation. So maybe nerfing how fast you can throw down a mine would be good.

 

16 hours ago, Cpt.Haxray said:

I know the Silenced M4 is one of the default T shop weapons, but it is ungodly bad and is likely not salvageable.

Maybe a magazine size increase? Or a slight increase in fire rate? It's really hard to decide on what Buff this weapon should receive. But, it is weak.

 

16 hours ago, Cpt.Haxray said:

The Newton Launcher baseline desperately needs a buff and is definitely on the weak side. However, the method of how the weapon was buffed, buffing its fire-rate, has resulted in the opposite problem where it is now WAY too strong.

I made a suggestion on nerfing the rapid fire. It amazes me how someone said that not jumping stops the Push of the Newton, which is flat out incorrect. You don't even require height difference or anything to push and lock someone in a corner, or to kill off the entire map because a kill zone exists. It's literally broken.

 

16 hours ago, Cpt.Haxray said:

The Poltergeist is an iconic Bad weapon. Even in base TTT the Poltergeist is awful.

Literally only exists to troll really. I only see it useful if they are in a small room. That's it.

 

Everything else, I think it's fine or doesn't need anything drastically changed.

[Cpt.Haxray 774 / 13,615]

8 minutes ago, Alexis said:

Maybe a magazine size increase? Or a slight increase in fire rate? It's really hard to decide on what Buff this weapon should receive. But, it is weak.

Perhaps, i think the silenced m4's main problem is that its trying to both be a 'silent kill' option for a Traitor while also being intended as a sorta primary weapon. The second half of this means it'll always be competing with the Ak-47 for how relevant it is. It doesnt help that while the Silenced Pistol doesn't have the same fire-rate, the Silenced Pistol is a lot quieter and has nearly perfect accuracy making it a better stealth option than the m4. 

 

Perhaps if the actual sound of the m4 was reduced it would work better?