DrakoHD's General Mute/Ban Appeal

[DrakoHD 222 / 4,291]

Which platform(s) are you appealing?: Discord

Discord/TS3 username (Add your tag and ID if possible):

Frankovic#4426

 

Why were you banned?: I was warned for "Discriminating Comments against Disabilities"

 

Why should you be unbanned?

I want the warn removed because I believe the mod in question read the situation wrong I responded to a message

https://discord.com/channels/505196032687079434/559144784652926996/947349364098105395

This is the message I saw 2 pings I decided to reply to dinimoto's one and he was getting aggressive for no reason I thought he was joking.

I am assuming the warn comes from this https://discord.com/channels/505196032687079434/559144784652926996/947350779109457940

which as you can see all of these messages came out at the same time at the same minute

Even Kevin knows this lol https://discord.com/channels/505196032687079434/559144784652926996/947350869165367347

that's why he typed the message out in the first place, because I pressed enter at the wrong time.

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by DrakoHD

[Joshy 4,364 / 44,955]

I need a little bit of time to look into this.

[AlphaOwl 307 / 7,593]

Although I do agree that the warn is a little bit far fetched given the circumstances and the presented video as to why he was doing it, I would say that Drako was being quite annoying with the gimmick, given early on I don't think many people cared about him doing it but him butting in the wrong place at the wrong time definitely didn't help. It was like watching a forest fire and deciding to ignite a gasoline can nearby when it came to aggravating Dino further. Sure I think Dino could've handled himself better in the Discord (to which he acknowledged and is not the focal part of this appeal), but I don't feel it was right for Drako to troll in the moment with his responses to Dino. I don't know if that would constitute a warn or anything, but I would think the issue was the trolling rather than "mocking disability" if people were actually following what was going on.

[DrakoHD 222 / 4,291]

I was being annoying I will admit, but I also didn't exactly read into the situation I didn't attempt to look at the conversation that was happening above. I was only replying to the messages that he had pinged me in.

[DaPainWayne 469 / 9,402]

First off, here are some relevant parts of the conversation that took place. Below, I want to point out two important factors of the first picture:

 

1) I made it clear for both yourself and Dinomoto to cease whatever discussion seemed to be going on, as it was clear there was some aggression shown in the conversation (not all aggression is pictured below). You continued to partake in said discussion/behavior displayed, despite me telling you to stop (Which is a rule 10 violation, and could/should have resulted in a 12 hour mute).

 

2) To quote specific selections here:

     "Dinomoto- if they wanna continue to talk and take the piss out of people that actually have stutters, then thats on them"

     "Frankovic- I I got got it it from from this this video video"

To me, from this, you would have acknowledged his offense and frustration about your behavior, yet continued along with it anyways, showing to me that you were acting in that behavior intentionally, and by that also intending to mimic a disability in an offensive mannor.

 

 

In the picture below, you even seem to directly acknowledge and confirm Dinomoto's claim that you are "just making a mockery of it". 

 

As I stated above, I could of very easily done a higher infraction of a Rule 10 violation, since you continued the behavior after being told to stop. However, using my own discretion I chose to only apply a warning as noted. And that's all it is, a warning. It wasn't a ban, it wasn't a mute, it merely sits on your record. This was completely avoidable in the first place, if you simply were to have realized the fact that you're directly offending someone by displaying a behavior that is intentionally making fun of a disability. It's not like the other person involved wasn't vocal about their frustration, you just chose to ignore it and continue. 

 

To respond to some parts of your message:

 

16 hours ago, DrakoHD said:

I thought he was joking.

Thank you for admitting to seeing his messages, and simply disregarding them. 

 

16 hours ago, DrakoHD said:

read the situation wrong I responded to a message

You were doing a lot more than just responding to a message. The initial message you sent in that time period was, yes, a reply to a previous message, however the remainder of messages were in a direct conversation.

 

13 hours ago, DrakoHD said:

I also didn't exactly read into the situation I didn't attempt to look at the conversation that was happening above.

I don't see how this applies since in your previous statement, you said you "thought he was joking", kind of conflicting claims. But even if you didn't read into the situation, it doesn't mean you are not at fault for what you did.

 

TL;DR: I feel it was a very much justified warning, that I could've even gone further with if I truly wanted to. It's a warning, and not the end of the world. 

[BestKevin 89 / 1,644]

Well I was there when it was happening and know the full situation and how it played out, so I will clarify my perspective as it seems to differ from Waynes.

 

 

The "That that is is the the point point" was in reference to Alpha saying it's annoying, not that he is making a mockery of people with stutters. Both Dino and Frank sent the messages at almost the exact same time. The reason I personally disagree with this warn is due to the fact that Dino started the altercation and took what Frank was doing the wrong way due to his mood that day.  If you go back and read what happened AFTER all of this, you will see that Dino was out for blood that day starting things with everyone.

 

Frank was doing this manner of speaking almost the entire day, and the part you have clipped out was where he got it from, a tiktok video of a person doing the exact same manner of speaking.  Regardless of if Frank disregarded it, Dino took it upon himself to distort what the actual purpose of the messages were.  I don't think that Dino being in a "mood" during that time should change how Frank has to talk in Discord, considering it had nothing to do with him.

 

Also dropping F bombs and being aggressive yourself during situations like this is not the best de-escalation tactic to deploy, as it usually just makes matters worse.

 

More Screenshots for reference: 

 

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by BestKevin

[DrakoHD 222 / 4,291]

5 hours ago, DaPainWayne said:

To me, from this, you would have acknowledged his offense and frustration about your behavior, yet continued along with it anyways, showing to me that you were acting in that behavior intentionally, and by that also intending to mimic a disability in an offensive mannor.

 

I wasn't doing it intentionally to offend him I had been acting like this since a day before I even went to the Gmod discord I did it in main hours before this had even happened. And still no I didn't mean to mimic a disability I only acknowledged the Idea that I was even doing so when defending myself before when the situation was still happening and now.

 

 

5 hours ago, DaPainWayne said:

In the picture below, you even seem to directly acknowledge and confirm Dinomoto's claim that you are "just making a mockery of it". 

 

This was what I was talking about I sent the message at the wrong time, how was I supposed to predict that he was gonna hit enter when I hit enter. again the messages were sent at the same time and I was responding to Alpha not Dinimoto, I even explained it not only that Kevin had reacted with "bad timing" because he saw that the messages were sent at the same time. Which from an outsiders perspective I can see how that may be taken as badly but I had no intent as to make a mockery of people who have issues with stuttering.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, DaPainWayne said:

Thank you for admitting to seeing his messages, and simply disregarding them. 

 

How do you expect me to take any of the things he is saying seriously when all he is doing is insulting me, and it's Gmod you can't expect me to take anything seriously when half the people in the division act that this way all the time and say it's being "sarcastic" or it's a "joke" and they can get away with it everyday. I had to do the exact same thing as a mod and distinguishing between what is and isn't a joke is hard when the discord is made up of mostly children.

 

 

And honestly I thought that "dumbfuck mcgee" was pretty funny.

 

5 hours ago, DaPainWayne said:

You were doing a lot more than just responding to a message. The initial message you sent in that time period was, yes, a reply to a previous message, however the remainder of messages were in a direct conversation.

 

No it wasn't I was laughing at the situation because I didn't think anyone would reach far enough to actually thinking that I was being serious the "conversation" of me saying he was being mad for no reason wasn't exactly a continuation of a conversation I could understand if it was instigating because that's more reasonable but even at that point I was of the belief that he had me blocked there was only one message that I had sent after the sc below. Also check when the message was edited.

 

 

After this I sent a laughing emoji because at this point it was a funny situation that someone was reading so much into a situation to such a stretch to me making fun of disabled people.

 

5 hours ago, DaPainWayne said:

I don't see how this applies since in your previous statement, you said you "thought he was joking", kind of conflicting claims. But even if you didn't read into the situation, it doesn't mean you are not at fault for what you did.

 

For one I should have put more about what I was talking about. And right before this entire thing started they were having a conversation about Ukraine and Russia which is understandably a touchy subject, which is what I had assumed he was mad about not me two timing words because of a tik tok. I didn't care to read what they were talking about and I didn't because I was replying to something he had asked me earlier. The aggression which I thought wasn't serious had happened earlier I didn't take it seriously again because I didn't think anyone would take it as seriously as he did.

 

 

[Joshy 4,364 / 44,955]

I think without Wayne's evidence... just scrolling through it myself... it does look like harassment on it's own.  I can see that Dino did look down the earlier than the conversation... not sure if I'd call that out for blood?...  that tone rapidly degrades as Drako makes a mockery of the stuttering, and I think it would be hard for anyone to believe that Dino is joking.  It doesn't look like he's joking to me.

 

 

Can you see now that Dino wasn't joking?  I'm pretty cool with Drako myself and he's joking a lot and saying things that could be offensive to strangers, but it's okay with close friends.  I don't mind it when it's with me although I'm getting pretty nervous about my hairline now 😉 .  I think in this case, though, the joke went too far and he misread the situation.  Even if he saw the joke from Tik-Tok it doesn't change the fact that it went too far here in this context.  Sometimes things can accidentally go too far and can land a warning.  It doesn't mean that I think Drako was being intentionally malicious, but it can still go too far.

 

Going too far can be subjective though, and so I could see how both sides would think they are right.  I think something like that maybe by itself I personally wouldn't want to give a warning for it, but it's fair game for a moderator to ask to discontinue the topic especially if it looks like it might be getting out of hand.  I think no matter which side you're on it does look like the discussion above could likely get out of hand.

 

Some people are claiming the timing was weird?  I'm not seeing any weirdness to it unless you only look at a very small snippet of it at the bottom...  oddly consider the 3rd verbal warning (this) the 1st one?  I saw only that little snippet at the end and I have to admit I immediately jumped to Drako's defense when I first saw it.  My position on that has changed after looking at it more closely.  Even in the evidence Wayne provided above:

 

 

 

11:29 pm Wayne gives a verbal (https://discord.com/channels/505196032687079434/559144784652926996/947349751681122334)

11:31 pm Wayne gives another verbal (https://discord.com/channels/505196032687079434/559144784652926996/947350244016947271)

11:31 pm Wayne clearly clarifies the verbal warning is about Drako and Dino (https://discord.com/channels/505196032687079434/559144784652926996/947350324077813760)

11:33 pm Drako says he got it from a video and continues joking

11:33 pm Dino shows that he is still aggravated by it

11:33 pm Drako continues

 

That's clearly 4 minutes from the first verbal warning before Drako continues.  He even got additional verbal warning and clarification 2 minutes before.  That is solid evidence right there I don't think the timestamps are lying.  It's not milliseconds or seconds apart.  It's minutes!  There's no way Wayne and Drako had some issue where they both hit enter at slightly different slice of a second.  Drako got the warning because Wayne gave verbals asking to stop minutes before, and he even clarified that it was about Drako.  I don't think I could ask Wayne to do anything more besides to start escalating because verbal warns do not look like they were working.  This here would make it very difficult for me to lift the warn.  I consider a Drako and a friend and I really like him, but Wayne's decision is backed by objective evidence, and so my hands are tied.

 

The warning is okay given either harassment rule or rule 10 moderators have the final say, which gives them scope to ask you to drop a (contentious) topic.  I'd be okay with changing the warn reason to something like "Rule 10 wouldn't drop the topic after being asked by a moderator to stop" if that's better?  You can send me a DM about that, Drako.  I'd be okay with that.

 

I think because of the clear evidence there's not much more that could be said besides the preference in warning verbiage.  I'll try to flexible on that, but I'm going to close the thread.