Enforce KOS on Traitor Areas or Make Clear of Exceptions

[Unaverage Joe 38 / 2,827]

We are going to have a discussion about this because of dogshit map design.
Either make it clear of maps have traitor areas accessible by both traitor interaction AND skill jumps with non-traitors, or fully allow any KOSes on traitor areas without any exceptions.
Or you can cater to "certain" people and abolish KOSing off any area as a valid reason.

[DodoMans 37 / 1,616]

if you can reach an area as an inno, its not kosable. thats all there really is to it

[Clank 2 / 526]

First, I'd like to apologize to you. I did get a bit angry with you over this. I intend to lead by example and show that anyone can be happy playing with or around me and getting heated with you over this doesn't show that i can be indifferent when it comes to attitude. 

 

Second i did try to explain to you that if you can legitimately get to an area such as the t area on the skateboard map, then it's not a valid reason to kill someone and constitutes RDM. I chose to try and get this point across rather than issue any warns. 

 

I hope that we can move on from this and enjoy each company as we did before tonight 

[dmitric419 45 / 3,124]

Clear sets of rules on the t room system as I followed.

 

1. Is the t room can be access by Innocents by a path or any other way?

 

2. If rule 1 is true, Then if there door or etc for the traitor get in then you can kos them for that.

 

So, Just kos off traitor doors or traitor rooms. That innocents can't get in at all

[lobsterpaw 174 / 3,327]

big disagree with dodo/clank here, only because i think "can reach an area" and "legitimately" are undefined here. i think that in cases like skate park where it is very easy to access, it should just be considered an innocent zone. however, as a lover of gplix aerodynamic experimentation, i really think the roof is not so accessible as to be considered an innocent/neutral zone. i can't do it with 75% consistency and i probably do it more than anyone. while you can get to it, it's still mostly not accessible. as for maps like communitybowling, that kind of indoor t room should just straight up be considered a KOS zone. obviously a traitor can press the button and let you in on accident, but i think when you step into an untextured room you've gotta know that if some other inno finds you in there, they're gonna kill you. if you manage to get into a t room as a non-traitor, i think you have a little time to get out, but you should be trying to get out relatively quickly.

 

edit: i don't know if i've made a suggestion post or mentioned it in general chat before, but this is another case where a large collection of rulings in a public post on the forums would be nice, since this traitor room question varies greatly between maps, and we clearly have different understandings of what the ruling is right now.

Edited April 14, 2023 by lobsterpaw

[Wolffe021 6 / 1,160]

See, like, skate park I can see on how it wouldn't be a possible act, because it's very easy to get there as Innocent, but something like Goldenplex, where the roof is a t area that cannot be easily reached, it should be a possible act, as only T's can easily get up there. 

[dmitric419 45 / 3,124]

7 minutes ago, Wolffe021 said:

See, like, skate park I can see on how it wouldn't be a possible act, because it's very easy to get there as Innocent, but something like Goldenplex, where the roof is a t area that cannot be easily reached, it should be a possible act, as only T's can easily get up there. 

You can just learn how to get there, Like I did. I have like 50% chance to get on getting on roof

[lobsterpaw 174 / 3,327]

2 hours ago, dmitric419 said:

You can just learn how to get there, Like I did. I have like 50% chance to get on getting on roof

 

you really have to go out of your way to both learn how to do it and do it intentionally. i think the general rule of thumb should be that if you can stumble upon it, it should probably be not KOSable

[Unaverage Joe 38 / 2,827]

There is a distinct difference with Goldenplex and Skatepark:

While innocents can get up to the roof, it is through entirely different ways of access. traitors can access it by using the ladders while innocents have to skillfully surf there via the launch pad elsewhere, completely different forms of getting up there.

The Problem with skatepark is that there is only one entrance to the boardwalk that is the T area, and the intended method of access is by traitors interacting with a trap button and opening ladders, while innocents parkouring up there is not intended design.

This is where my main conflict comes from, if you enter a T area through an entrance that a traitor has a available interaction usable to get in, it is KOSable in my eyes.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Unaverage Joe

[Cpt.Haxray 774 / 13,610]

I never did give my take on this.

 

You are 100% correct this has to do with bad map design that this is even an issue in the first place.

 

I can think of some examples other than for these 2 maps. For example, its possible to get on both Roofs on Nuke town as innocent via discombobulator jumping. 

 

I will do a controversial take here.

 

If a T room can be accessed by just crowbaring the door open or some other means, then it is not kosable to enter the room. If the T room can only be accessed via a discombobulator, prop surfing, air strafing, or some other unintutive means, then it is still kosable to enter. 

 

I would love to just let you be able to kos on any T room ever, but then it causes issues on certain maps where the T room looks and acts like a normal part of the map due to oversights (TTT_Vault is a major example of this).