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willywilson

Santa Extreme and Us

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Hello everyone! as you know, I've been pushing the server on santa extreme lately, and so far in my various attempts leading, we've got a 2/3 success rate at getting to extreme act 3. So now with the recent stripper fixes to make items hit fat santa and work properly, I figured I'd make a post to discuss santa extreme, the changes, and use the thread to mark our progression.

 

Points:

 

  • First off, I'd like to say (and ask) that we be quiet and act with more discretion in regards to santa extreme, especially act 3. The last few times we've gotten to it, we've practiced it, and people start shouting "impossible" or "let's try this other glitch" and talking over the leader. When we start having quarrels and bickering amongst ourselves, we undermine our attempt to win, as then, many of the randoms on, and people who don't know much aren't taking it as seriously. 

 

  • Now another thing I'd like to say is that santa ex is not as hard as we make it out to be, prologue is pretty easy, act 2 is easy, and act 1 is truly the big hurdle. Act 1 has a lot more npcs at the beginning which really screw us, but as we've proven, it's still possible, and considering we win santa most of the time we play it normally, we should start just practicing extreme, and ignoring normal. 

 

  • Also, we need to concentrate more on item users, this map is based 99% around items, honestly 10 tryhards that take items can carry us through the map, BUT, a huge caviot to this is hitting their shots. We need to start practicing act 3 more frequently, so that people can time their shots and learn to use the items and hit the bosses more, because as it currently stands, on extreme, due to how fast the bosses move, we miss a lot of shots, so we need to practice that. Items are important, and we need to use them more precisely, and practice them.

 

  • Another huge thing we need to focus on is heals, we need to time out heals better, on extreme we should just skip healing before the first set of reindeer altogether, instead using the first heal at the boss, no one should die provided we defend, and triggers stay at an elevated level, and take their time, we can defend forever, triggers can take as long as possible, JUST DON'T DIE!!!! 
    • to add on to this, first heal is outside of skinny, and we then use 2 heals during santa to ensure we all survive, all at the door, then one more on elevator or at fat santa gate depending on where the team's hp is at, then another heal after fat santa, or at his last 10k at the gate once again, so that we go into extreme truth with 200

 

  • Finally, a thank you to everyone, we've been working hard lately, and pushing ourselves, we've gotten to santa act 3 on extreme 2 out of the three times we've tried it! that's amazing, so you're all doing great, we still have a ways to go though, but with the new fixes, it should be possible, we just need to keep practicing and working hard!
Edited by willywilson
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I should also note that I've done some testing with breakables and weapons, with negevs and most rifles doing 17, and bizons and most smgs doing 12, there is drop off though, and p90 is best if there's a decent amount, but I need to test more things to see if we should all use negevs and just pray to rng on skinny, or if we should use bizons and strafe around. (note I dislike m249s as they have less ammo, a lot less accurate, and sacrifice movement for damage, negev is super accurate, and bizon & p90s are a lot more accurate than m249s AND give better movement, so more testing as to negevs on skinny vs bizons and p90s, but we'll see)

Edited by willywilson
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Just a quick update: tonight we got the server's first legit win on skinny santa with 6 people surviving, if we keep practicing, and doing well, and start meeting up for a weekly tuesday night santa extreme, then I think we can easily get the win, we just have to keep pushing ourselves!

 

Great job to all who came out, thanks for playing, and let's keep up the progress and good work.

 

Some notes and things to try next session:

 

  • DON'T STAND CLOSE TO THE WALLS, he can hit you twice there for skinny
  • try using 4 heals during skinny as fat is easier to dodge
  • everyone using p90s over bizons due to santa being a breakable
    • just another idea is to maybe all use negevs and pray to rng
  • also we need to be faster on benders, anyone who sees one, calls it out, they were raping us
  • also we need some brave souls who can offline items, and practice using them and hitting santa at a 90% rate, as we need to have a higher hit rate on items, as they TEAr THROUGH HIM

 

credit to vanya, mercy, vauff, etc for helping out idea wise, a lot to improve on, but we're just getting started

Edited by willywilson
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Wanted to give a quick retrospective after tonight's session of Santa:

 

I really don't think this map will be beat. There are way too many variables with item usage, and RNG from both the boss movements and the players that are on the server. I know we recently fixed the human items to hit the santa boss better, but the problem still remains that Skinny Santa is a fast son of a bitch who is EXTREMELY hard to hit. Rockets especially are not gonna land as often and most of our important DPS comes from that one item. Heal coordination was all over the place tonight as well. You can also just get unlucky and get targeted more often, leading to quicker death. I don't find this very fun, especially from a boss seven minutes into a thirty minute map.

 

Unfortunately (or fortunately some might say), we have a massive amount of new players on the server to keep it active. These new players really hurt our hyper competitive play style. You might get some randoms that spam pick E to waste a heal, or get a bunch of brain dead humans that overdefend and die to NPCs constantly. Now is there anything wrong with that? Not really. But keep in mind Santa is an incredibly difficult map. On the opposite side, it really hurts when we have too many good players on the server. Better human = better zombie. In that sense we get much more trims from really good strafes and bhops.

 

Now what is there to learn from this. Either we:

  • Keep trying this pointless achievement until everyone gets burnt out
  • Nerf Skinny Santa to balance the early game and not adjust the Fat Santa and Socrates fights

Personally I like the balance for Santa Normal mode. Maybe the Truth section is human sided, but the map is fun enough for some people instead of everyone ending up worn out to some bullshit boss mechanics.

 

2 minutes ago, willywilson said:

Just a quick update: tonight we got the server's first legit win on skinny santa with 6 people surviving, if we keep practicing, and doing well, and start meeting up for a weekly tuesday night santa extreme, then I think we can easily get the win, we just have to keep pushing ourselves!

 

Great job to all who came out, thanks for playing, and let's keep up the progress and good work.

 

Was typing this for a while and left before seeing the Skinny Santa win. My points still stand, don't see us consistently getting more players past that part.

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14 minutes ago, WarpedCakez said:

Wanted to give a quick retrospective after tonight's session of Santa:

 

I really don't think this map will be beat. There are way too many variables with item usage, and RNG from both the boss movements and the players that are on the server. I know we recently fixed the human items to hit the santa boss better, but the problem still remains that Skinny Santa is a fast son of a bitch who is EXTREMELY hard to hit. Rockets especially are not gonna land as often and most of our important DPS comes from that one item. Heal coordination was all over the place tonight as well. You can also just get unlucky and get targeted more often, leading to quicker death. I don't find this very fun, especially from a boss seven minutes into a thirty minute map.

 

Unfortunately (or fortunately some might say), we have a massive amount of new players on the server to keep it active. These new players really hurt our hyper competitive play style. You might get some randoms that spam pick E to waste a heal, or get a bunch of brain dead humans that overdefend and die to NPCs constantly. Now is there anything wrong with that? Not really. But keep in mind Santa is an incredibly difficult map. On the opposite side, it really hurts when we have too many good players on the server. Better human = better zombie. In that sense we get much more trims from really good strafes and bhops.

 

Now what is there to learn from this. Either we:

  • Keep trying this pointless achievement until everyone gets burnt out
  •  Nerf Skinny Santa to balance the early game and not adjust the Fat Santa and Socrates fights

 Personally I like the balance for Santa Normal mode. Maybe the Truth section is human sided, but the map is fun enough for some people instead of everyone ending up worn out to some bullshit boss mechanics.

  

 

Was typing this for a while and left before seeing the Skinny Santa win. My points still stand, don't see us consistently getting more players past that part.

 

n4a consistently got got 26 peeps past skinny, with 40 on the best runs, it's do-able, we have a lot to practice, and they got socrates down to 5k hp, we will need good rng, but it's not impossible. 

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6 hours ago, willywilson said:

if we keep practicing, and doing well, and start meeting up for a weekly tuesday night santa extreme

 

But does it always have to be a Tuesday night? Why not a Friday or Saturday night? Some people have to get up early, just saying. 

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2 hours ago, VPat said:

 

But does it always have to be a Tuesday night? Why not a Friday or Saturday night? Some people have to get up early, just saying. 

 

Doesn't have to be tbh, we could do twice a week too, but we should decide on a night to do it consistently 

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9 hours ago, willywilson said:

 

n4a consistently got got 26 peeps past skinny, with 40 on the best runs, it's do-able, we have a lot to practice, and they got socrates down to 5k hp, we will need good rng, but it's not impossible. 

 

N4A is also a very different server with very different players. You got to consider the constant stream of new players (which was discussed in my post you quoted) that will not be on for every Santa attempt. You are only practicing for the small number of players who will consistently attempt the map. Also fuck RNG, never should be in a game like this.

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4 hours ago, WarpedCakez said:

 

N4A is also a very different server with very different players. You got to consider the constant stream of new players (which was discussed in my post you quoted) that will not be on for every Santa attempt. You are only practicing for the small number of players who will consistently attempt the map. Also fuck RNG, never should be in a game like this.

Well the point is that we know its "winnable" and thats why were practicing so hard. The hope is to get enough players willing to put their best efforts into the map and focus. Just because there are typically many new players on GFL doesnt mean that we cant get enough dedicated players on to beat the map. Regardless, its still worth the effort and the grind should be fun no matter what the outcome. 

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Some updates on Santa from today: We played it today, and it went ok, the biggest issue was not defending during act 3, and randoms picking up items. Prologue, Act 1, and Act 2 all went smoothly (after I got unmuted xd) but we seem to freak out because "EXTREME OMGOMGOMGOMGELKASDAW" and forget to defend, with people dying to stupid things. I'll say this once, if you're in a pro group like IES, etc. please get a heal, and defend, we only need 3 REALLY good item users to get rocket, mini, and beam, and for them to hit all their shots, the rest of us should also be shooting and focusing, but we also need to listen, and concentrate, a big issue imo with the run today was that we got to act 3, and people seemed to clock it in, not realizing that THAT is where the hard work needs to start. We can defend left, right and middle at an almost 100% rate in normal, yet we freak out, so we need to work on that, and I believe if we had less people talking and more people taking it seriously we could do that, just an update on our progress so far, next time we get to act 3, we need to concentrate and push instead of having a fuck off hour. Also, we need to NOT nominate santa unless the team is good enough for extreme mode, yes normal can be a carry win ez, but for extreme practice (which is the only way we should do santa until we win) should be saved for a tryhard team like wanderers v6 was / is. Due to us only getting to skinny twice, we didn't get to try out some strats, which is incredibly detrimental, also we need to wait for leaders to get on for santa (while yes I'm the one pushing it, there are other people that can do it in my absence, but they at least need to know the map and be invested in extreme, I've seen jeff do a good job and I think doogla could do it, but needs more practice along with other obvious choices like whim4life, or if you're lucky vanya. Just make sure there is a designated leader who is on and willing when you play, as it makes a distinct difference.)

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I was not there, but will commit to 90% sobriety next time Santa is on as we need sharp decision making to adapt to the intensity of EX act 3.

 

just curious (I was never a fan of this strat) but does the new stripper fix the very hard move of trapping skinny Santa in the corner by throwing weapons and pinning him in?

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4 hours ago, hotEvercLear said:

I was not there, but will commit to 90% sobriety next time Santa is on as we need sharp decision making to adapt to the intensity of EX act 3.

 

just curious (I was never a fan of this strat) but does the new stripper fix the very hard move of trapping skinny Santa in the corner by throwing weapons and pinning him in?

 

Nah it's still possible, but the room gets cleared of weapons every 30 seconds, and you can't rocket or nade him in the corner (else the guns stucking him go flying to the sky), so 30 seconds of dps vs rockets and nades, a bit of a toss up, and to add to that, the strat doesn't work 9/10 times.

Edited by willywilson

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First off, let me apologize for calling some of you dumb cunts. I get very frustrated when we don't learn or make progress, if the first round we get 20 to fat santa, then while yes, there may be a few steps back, etc. we shouldn't struggle to get to that same point again, we should learn and improve. Whatever the case, I just want to say....

 

GREAT JOB

 

We rarely get anyone past skinny, our best run so far was 6, and we finally got 20 people past, amazing progress guys. But at the same time, as I said on the server, we shouldn't start patting ourselves on the back just yet, we have a lot of notes to go over from today:

 

  • 1. Left boosting into right
    • right should go back instantly
    • left should tap zombies in their feet
    • shouldn't waste nades at the beginning, very important for damaging skinny and fat
  • 2. Benders (mini and beam should take care)
    • during the boss, the benders are ever present and slaughter the team, we need to focus more on them more, with beam and mini switching to them asap, as those weapons are spammable, rocket should still focus santa (as it does THOUSANDS, and mini and beam have a lot smaller cd rate)
    • Also, at the part where the teams meet up, we have a few people dying, but that's due to bad rng and people not shooting enough, 1 negev clip kills a bender, so 30 people shooting them with p90s should kill each in seconds
  • 3. Heals
    • need to get these in the hands of pros along with beam, mini and rocket
    • saw a lot of missed timings, etc. and while yes, the occasional hic-up is to be expected, shouldn't be happening literally 1/2 the time we need heal
    • also heals should use their own judgement if they think the heals is needed or see skinny targeting them (minor note, not as big as the first few)
  • 4. People dying to stupid shit
    • saw a lot of people randomly dying to things like trying to over-defend, doorhugging at 38 hp and dying to benders or pushing benders too fast and getting killed
    • main point is, take your time, learn from your mistakes, we all make them it's ok, just don't do it 10 times in a row. 

 

Note: The stuck strat worked, and it's worth tries, but we shouldn't come to reply on it. 

Edited by willywilson

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On 6/17/2019 at 4:42 PM, willywilson said:

Hello everyone! as you know, I've been pushing the server on santa extreme lately, and so far in my various attempts leading, we've got a 2/3 success rate at getting to extreme act 3. So now with the recent stripper fixes to make items hit fat santa and work properly, I figured I'd make a post to discuss santa extreme, the changes, and use the thread to mark our progression.

 

6/27/2019 Today, with Luffaren leading us, and tweaks to item damage to boss, we made it about 85-90% through act 3 extreme. We beat skinny santa with 24 surviving. We beat fat santa with 16 surviving. Here is where we stopped. 

 

This is very good progress. I think with better teamwork, beating act 3 now is entirely within the realm of possibility.

vlcsnap-2019-06-27-11h54m18s065.png

Edited by Loccstan
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1 hour ago, hotEvercLear said:

dang, i believe that is the farthest anyone has ever gotten on truth for GFL... i am not sure if we ever got past fat santa tbh. 

Nope the furthest gfl has gotten before then was fat Santa they never beat it and they got to fat Santa off the pistol glitch during the extreme event 

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Hey guys, since we got to truth, we've taken time off of the extreme grind, we need to get back into the swing of things, please don't nominate it with a bad team, (as was the case on saturday) but wait for a good team in order to properly have some good practice and chances at act 3. We took some time off, we need to get back into form, and keep on practicing! Be sure to nominate santa only when the team is extreme ready, and please don't waste nominations on random teams, and non extreme practice!

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