About sponge boss mechanics

[Zassenhaus 5 / 1,558]

I registered an account to make this post(and hope it would help ), I just want to clarify how the sponge moves due to so many wrong surmises i've heard during the game.

Actually, there is  no way to avoid being killed : there are no safe places and  u can also be targeted even if u stop shooting.

The field is a 6*6 square, there is an invisible trigger rotating around the center just like  a sweep hand on the clock(it looks like  a high wall from players side so u cant avoid it by jumping). The first one who touches the trigger will be set as the target and deactivates  the trigger for 5 seconds(and a new target will be chosen after 5 seconds). The target (and only the target) will also trigger the squre under  him, where the sponge moves to. The sponge will then do a position check between itself and the triggered square and cant move away from it(that means if the sponge is on the left top of the triggered square, then the sponge will only move to the right or bottom, how it actually moves is random).

So the only thing that may help surviving is to stay away from ur teammates and pray... It may help alot if u can figure out whos the chosen one, but it is only possible if there are not so many and they dont stick together.

[Beekay 27 / 1,843]

So the only thing that may help surviving is to stay away from ur teammates and pray... => Best strategy 2k17.

 

Kek, thanks for the precisions tho

[gkuo88 67 / 2,820]

Stay near the edge and simply move in the opposite direction the boss moves. Vast majority of boss kills come from players getting inbetween it and the target. Stay far away from the boss as much as you can so you can more easily see its movements and make counter-movements. Boss will choose a target and move in only 1 direction in both x and y directions. Move in the opposite direction the boss is by strafing A or D while facing it. If the boss is going left, and you move past it by going right in the same axis, and the boss doesnt change 180 degrees, then it isn't following you and you're "safe". Only move away directly using S from it when you're at a safe distance, or when you have confirmed you are "safe". If everyone stays along the edge as much as possible, in a wide circle, then it increases the chance that the boss will have to move a longer distance, and thus makes it easier for players to dodge it usually. You cannot really outrun it unless you're very pro, but its easier to keep the number of deaths low, and mitigate the destructive power of rng.

 

Oh yea, if it stops or switches around completely, that means it has reached its target, so consider stop backing up again and prepare to evade it again.

Edited April 15, 2017 by gkuo88

[DarkHeroz 93 / 3,517]

We have done this before and yes win the map. It's ez to kill the boss if people listen to you and some lead the boss. Back then we have 4 people on 4 corner do the boss trigger (aka lead the boss) and others just avoid to trigger the boss. If the boss near 1 of the triggers the other gonna try to trigger it so it go away. Basicly 4 tirggers lead the boss go around the area. The problem is it's hard to win if you don't have a good team. People just running around trigger the boss cause it to kill other player and also we need people know how to lead the boss.

Edited April 15, 2017 by DarkHeroz

[Zassenhaus 5 / 1,558]

Actually there is a way to survive longer than ur teamates... First keep distance from boss. Since the author use special entity names as filter for item pickers (drop iten wont change entity name, so once u have picked an item u can spam it even u dont have it) and boss target,  u can drop and repick the item if u had time before death, then ur mark will be reset and will not be considered as a target anymore, however the boss will move to the last position triggered before u repick the item(and there is no target anymore untill next choosing, so the other square wont be triggered), run from there and u gain another 5 secs life(and the next victim maybe some1 else).

It is hard to do that if boss is near to u cuz need time to repick and run, but theoretically it is a method if someone can bhop fast and keep distance: when boss come to u, stay there and drop + repick item, after that run away and keep distance from the last position and wait untill boss moves to u again. Maybe someone can try solo it

 

PS: i can solo survive about 20 - 30 secs by repick item repeatly, but it  always happen that i fail to pick the droped item somehow and be fucked by the sponge

Edited April 15, 2017 by Zassenhaus

[Elch 6 / 1,685]

nice info

 

i heard always the rumor that when it targets you => dont move :D

 

i always suspected that you just have to spread out best 360 degrees arround spongé and just adept and circle to his movements

 

but

is the item block on duck intended or is this a bug?

that i dont know

[Zassenhaus 5 / 1,558]

1 hour ago, Elch said:

nice info

 

i heard always the rumor that when it targets you => dont move :D

 

i always suspected that you just have to spread out best 360 degrees arround spongé and just adept and circle to his movements

 

but

is the item block on duck intended or is this a bug?

that i dont know

For the sponge boss, the author has designed explicit how it rolls and forces it to move(the physical engine is not used, the movement wont be blocked anyway).  But the duck's movement is not directly controlled by the author, it will be accelerated(gain speed) to the target and uses the collision and motion system the source engine provided, so it will be blocked by the sponge, the mouse trap and the pool.

I know nothing about mapping, but according to the documentation given by "developer.valvesoftware.com" the system should be similiar to what i said.

 

As I said , u can drop & pick the items to clear ur death mark, but u wont have enough time to do this if the boss is near to u since in cs go there is an about 1 sec delay after dropping ur weapon until u can pick it up again.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Zassenhaus

[Zassenhaus 5 / 1,558]

I was trying to find a way to beat the boss easily. The boss has (60+(number of suvivors-1)*30)*8 hp, capped in 650*8(*8 refers to the hp bar). If someone can touch the rotating trigger wisely and lead the boss for 5 secs to a corner it would be an easy kill with 30+ ppl(Only the firerate is important, all guns do 1 damage per bullet, grenades do 40).  Because the rotating trigger does not start with full speed and has a maxspeed of 950 degrees per sec, it is hard to predict the current location and to touch it (as the first one), even if u just stand in the middle, which garantees a touch, the FIRST touch after an activation(5 sec after last trigger) is not granteed if someone else touches it at the same time.( due to the  internet delays it would be random perhaps?)

 

But I found a bug of the current version ze_bathroom_v2_5,  that should be easy to find(if u play alone to test map), which garantees a boss kill.

 

If u don't like to read, just watch the video. 

 

First I'll show u some information from the  map file( you can use "bspsrc" to decompile  and use cs go sdk to check the map. I dont know if it is allowed, have been trying to do things like that for only 3 days cuz i really hate that sponge. I'll stop if it is not allowed) 

The author uses kostka_boss_pos_y_compare and kostka_boss_pos_x_compare to compare the position of triggered square and the current positon of the boss.

Without loss of generality we only consider the "kostka_boss_pos_y_compare"(see Image c.jpg), the same for the x coordinate.

As you can see, the default initial value and compare value are set to 4 and 4(Which is NOT the initial "y" of the boss, it must be a mistake from the author).  It's OK if there  are so many players just moving around, since "kostka_boss_trigger_pos_y" and "kostka_boss_main_pos_y" will change the values of "kostka_boss_pos_y_compare".

With "kostka_boss_trigger_pos_y" it is ok since it will updated every time the target triggers a square, but "kostka_boss_main_pos_y" will only be updated if the boss moves up or down(see a.jpg). That is the problem. What if the boss would never move up and down? "kostka_boss_main_pos_y" will never be called hence the compare value remains wrong and will never be updated! If all the players just stand in the 4th row(y=4) no one will ever be killed(and the same if all players stand in the 4th column).

 

Anyway this method is almost impossible cuz ppl just dont wanna listen, but I hope it would be useful for mappers to debug(just correct the initial values). 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2017 by Zassenhaus

[1mpact 107 / 3,838]

As said many times before, your best hope is to run, and to hope. xd

[OLIVKA 146 / 3,528]

Puklica made this boss specially to prevent stuck elites and study people how to move and dont camp any position. To my mind ze_bathroom hasnt any safe spots because boss has really good targeting and can find you whenever you are trieng to hide. So in my opinion the best strategy to beat this boss is just stay behind it and dont forget to move right or left. Only strafing will help you with it.

P.S Never use negev, with 190 speed you can die really easy by the boss. 

[Zassenhaus 5 / 1,558]

@OLIVKA

5 hours ago, OLIVKA said:

To my mind ze_bathroom hasnt any safe spots

Seems like no one watched my video, nor read my own replys to this topic, im so sad .

 

With other players moving around, no. But if u are alone, as I said there are initial bugged  spots because of the wrong initial values of the logic_compare entity. The initial position of the sponge is (5,5), and the to be compared values are 4 and 4. If u(or all players in case ur not alone) stand(Before the boss HP bar shows) in the  area of the 4th row(column) and don't get out of this row(column) untill the boss dies, the wrong values wont be updated and boss won't kill u. Try it  (type map  <mapname> in console to load map, use god to kill duck to get access to lvl2 if you dont know how to trigger the sponge boss by console)

 

 

 

PS: if you play with a friend and both of u have items(sponge and trap), there is a way not to be targeted: drop the items at the same time and swap them, the players entity name will then be reset on picking up items. In opposition to my previous post for single player, it is possible since there is no delay picking up weapons dropped by other players, so u can clear the mark after boss targeting in 0.5 sec by swapping your items(drop and pick own weapons will take at least 2 seconds), the boss will go to the last place before the item swap(untill the next targeting, then u need to swap again), there will be enough time to keep distance.

Edited April 21, 2017 by Zassenhaus