Fistful of Traitors Rerun Feedback

[The1337Gh0st 238 / 8,599]

hello this post is mainly for the players who wants to give feedback or complain about the rerun event

 

give feedback on how things could be better

 

 

 

[wget 71 / 1,607]

add ak47

[lobsterpaw 174 / 3,327]

personally i'd like it more if the guns were the normal gun spawns, there were no extra/removed items in the shops, kicking wasn't added, we didn't have cowboy hats, we couldn't throw guns or fan the hammer, and i could just type the word "andale" without being exposed to the woke mind virus agenda

[MutedMike 151 / 4,193]

I don't like the fact that I can't walk without ADSing and the kicking that replaces the walking feels floaty and, since it brings you to a full stop if you're not jumping, just doesn't feel intuitive enough to warrant it being in the game. ADSing while moving is not worth on the weapons without a scope a decent amount of the time, and the massive accuracy changes and how much it punishes movement feels like it caters to the camper playstyle we all make fun of. This is exactly how I felt when the original event happened, I will try to play on it more to see if any of my opinions change, but right now, FoT mechanics aren't as fun as the original.

Edited April 25, 2023 by MutedMike

[lobsterpaw 174 / 3,327]

you can run around and shoot people still, as the vast majority of people have been doing. you just have to stand still when you shoot. it really doesn't "cater to the camper playstyle" any more than regular anarchy does. arguably since there are no sights beyond iron sights and reloading takes absolutely ages and slows you down significantly, it dissuades people from camping. 

[DodoMans 37 / 1,616]

💩👍

[MutedMike 151 / 4,193]

My main problem is that this event is slowing literally everything down (standing still to shoot, almost every weapon having less than 10 ammunition in each mag, and any auto weapon has insane accuracy nerfs it's basically a tec-9 but worse and a primary) with roles that are already slow to play on this server, and the only way to balance that is to remove them temporarily (example: restless, impostor), unless you want a timeout win to be so much more common. It's like someone looked at anarchy and said "this is too fast" and decided to penalize any fast gameplay. I have to fight with the game in order to have fun, and it's just not something I want to do.

Edited April 25, 2023 by MutedMike

[Unaverage Joe 38 / 2,812]

Make counterstrafing a viable tactic.

 

[wget 71 / 1,607]

50 minutes ago, Unaverage Joe said:

Make counterstrafing a viable tactic.

no, this will throw off the balance of the guns since different guns force you to stop for different amounts of time to fire an accurate shot, so it wouldn't make sense if you could just fire an accurate shot whenever you wanted to

 

1 hour ago, MutedMike said:

can't walk without ADSing

it's weird but it's a tradeoff that needed to be made because it would be silly to force players to have to bind a key to kick

 

1 hour ago, MutedMike said:

and the only way to balance that is to remove them temporarily (example: restless, impostor)

these roles infamously slow the game down even outside of the event

 

1 hour ago, MutedMike said:

unless you want a timeout win to be so much more common

counterpoint: i played on the server twice a few weeks ago and there were several timeouts while there wasn't a single timeout today

 

1 hour ago, MutedMike said:

the massive accuracy changes and how much it punishes movement feels like it caters to the camper playstyle

in actual gameplay i've observed from today and the last fot event it doesn't really seem like it, people still run around blasting each other just the same

 

the slow parts that you'd blamed fot for wouldn't change at all with non-fot ttt, it's still the same stuff like restless or just bad map design or just the last inno hiding in a little room or even the last evil role being a new player that doesn't know what to do, it's not gonna change, it sucks to play on wide open maps with zero cover regardless of the weapons

 

and camping is even worse with the previous weapons anyway because of their low ttk, you can just stand around a corner and delete someone near-instantly and they'll have no reasonable time to react

 

and slow gunplay or movement doesn't even directly translate to slow rounds, like the spider-terrorists random event gives players supreme mobility but it causes some of the most boring and slow and delayed rounds ever

 

also i've seen some people *still* complain about accuracy even with guns that are perfectly accurate, i think they just don't like that they can't immediately fire another shot after missing

 

how some people describe how the mechanics turn the game into just seem dissonant from how i actually see it plays out

 

like no, people didn't just sit still and camp forever just because that's how you'd assume the mechanics encourage players to behave

 

and like someone else was complaining that the crowbar has the highest dps so there's no reason to use the guns and proceeded to try to crowbar me to death from full health to prove the point but i just kicked and shot them to death but they still pretended they were right

 

it's just weird, i know it's not for everyone but if you're setting yourself up to have no fun, then you're obviously not gonna have fun

 

anyway i think it's just a mindset issue, personally, i don't think it's the end of the world that gunfights don't end in 0.01 seconds, i just think having to put more effort into and be more deliberate about fighting players is more fun and satisfying since it feels a lot more like you earned it

Edited April 25, 2023 by wget

[Unaverage Joe 38 / 2,812]

11 minutes ago, wget said:

personally, i don't think it's the end of the world that gunfights don't end in 0.01 seconds,

Here's the problem, once you get hit you are at a disadvantage, and since there isn't instakill damage you are losing the DPS fight. Combined with the fact you need to stand still to land your shots that puts you further into a disadvantage. Special roles have abilities that either lets them pick their fights and/or run away, but innocents have nothing and they can't initiate the fight without good reason.

[wget 71 / 1,607]

1 minute ago, Unaverage Joe said:

Here's the problem, once you get hit you are at a disadvantage, and since there isn't instakill damage you are losing the DPS fight. Combined with the fact you need to stand still to land your shots that puts you further into a disadvantage. Special roles have abilities that either lets them pick their fights and/or run away, but innocents have nothing and they can't initiate the fight without good reason.

it's just the main downside of being innocent even outside of the event, you're supposed to find people to trust and use your advantage of numbers, i always thought this was the point of ttt

 

personally i never found it to be the case that if i get hit first then i have already lost the fight, it's a pretty bad disadvantage but it's not like it's just absolutely over for you

 

there's lots of things you can do like bait your opponent into taking a bad shot or duck into cover while you wait for your next shot, take a look around and see how you can use the map geometry around you to your advantage, maybe don't put yourself in a bad position when you don't need to in the first place, and having to stand still to take an accurate shot isn't bad at all when you've juked them and they have to wait to cycle their gun or switch to another

 

like i said you have to be more deliberate and have better decision-making in gunfights, i think it's quite fun and i prefer it to just bullethosing people with an automatic gun

 

and think about it: with low ttk or easy instakills, then it's actually over for you if you're hit first, because then you'd be dead, so idk what your point is with this

[wget 71 / 1,607]

  as for more minor complaints i've heard throughout today:

 

---

the slow reloads don't matter at all when you can just pick up another gun off the ground, so try to remember where guns spawn so you know where to go when you need a loaded gun

 

in fact, when you kill a player then their gun will automatically be fully loaded, so you can get a long killstreak without reloading a single time

(i found that maintaining a killstreak this way is quite fun because of how much you'd have to improvise and adjust)

 

guns will be highlighted green if they're full, yellow if nearly-full, orange if nearly-empty, and red if empty

 

while a gun is highlighted, you can press your drop key and you will automatically swap to it, and you don't need to aim directly at it because it will choose the gun that's closest to your crosshair

 

---

some guns that i've seen some complain about are the auto-5 and the gewehr rifle

(while these guns are ghost's additions, i mainly did the balancing for them so i should to be blamed for them 🚎)

 

with the auto-5, it's usually because someone would unload all 5 shots into their target and they'd survive with like 12 hp or something

 

rapidly unloading the auto-5 makes it wildly inaccurate, it's better to shoot it at slower intervals or shoot it in 2-3 bursts, and it'll kill a player at surprising distances in 3 hits quite quickly you place your shots well (using rmb with it also helps a lot)

 

---

the first time you headshot someone with the gewehr rifle, you might get surprised to learn that it deals 90 headshot damage, not an instakill, and this does suck to learn the hard way

 

the gewehr rifle's headshot damage is 90 because it's supposed to be used for 2-shotting enemies at long ranges, and if it killed in one headshot then it would make the smith carbine and sharps rifle pointless (both of which can kill in one headshot but have a much slower rate of fire)

 

at closer ranges, its high bodyshot damage of 65 is intended to be combo'd with a pistol shot or a kick with the boots (35 damage), and you can go for a headshot when you know your target is slightly hurt (which the ttt targetid conveniently tells you)

 

anyway, i'd like to hear more balancing-related complaints (mainly it was menvy in the vc talking about it but it was unstructured and etc so i can't really remember it)

 

---

also about a misconception that i've heard:

 

the accuracy% near the crosshair is NOT the chance that you'd hit a shot, it's just a "rating" of your current accuracy (99% = dead-on, 1% = maybe don't take this shot)

 

an accuracy rating of like 75% doesn't mean that if you aim at someone then you'd land the shot 75% of the time and miss the shot 25% of the time, it's not a probability, it's just there to make it easier to learn the relative accuracies of each gun to each other, and i personally turn this off since i already subconsciously know them (F1 > Gameplay Settings > Crosshair Settings)

 

the four lines around your crosshair are there to tell you the area where your shot is GUARANTEED to land in, so if your intended target isn't entirely covered by this area, then you're taking a gamble when you fire that shot

 

that means that if you miss a shot, then either your target is just out of reasonable range or you simply had poor crosshair placement

(you really have no excuse with a dynamic crosshair since you know where your bullet can land)

(and you can't blame shitreg either because people aren't spamming crouch jump in a fight anymore)

(anyway this is just to make it clear that missing your shot is objectively, as the kids would all it, a skill issue)

[Doctor Pig 114 / 3,791]

stand still, crouch, and shoot the gun

[lobsterpaw 174 / 3,327]

8 minutes ago, Doctor Pig said:

stand still, crouch, and shoot the gun

crouching has no direct effect on aim

Edited April 25, 2023 by lobsterpaw

[Doctor Pig 114 / 3,791]

1 minute ago, lobsterpaw said:

crouching has no direct effect on aim

 

but it makes you smaller and therefore harder to hit

[lobsterpaw 174 / 3,327]

Just now, Doctor Pig said:

but it makes you smaller and therefore harder to hit

while i see your point, i think the costs of crouching in action vastly outweigh the pros. as far as pros go, it obviously makes you a smaller target, which is always nice. you're also significantly harder to hit with the medic's crusader crossbow, so you may just end up getting yourself killed. now the cons: simply put, crouching projects an image of submission and weakness. also, cowardice and weakness. this will trigger your opponent's predator gene and they'll only gain a further advantage after they transform from this encounter. also it makes you look short and weak. i have no problem with a short king (s.o. menvy), but i went to tactical training school (it's in another state you wouldn't have heard of it) and the fact is making yourself crouch just makes you bend your knees and legs so that your bottom is significantly closer to the floor. the severe change this has on the gameplay cannot be overstated. in fact, i think crouching should be nerfed for this event. it "may" in "fact" be too "powerful" to just let lpeople" crouch whenever they want to crouch.   not only does crouching make you look weak and cowardly, it also makes you look very fragile and weak. thank you for heari bc em out mkr e sutr to csrubscribe and litr the bidro usnf unytk nrxt yime thand for waychinh

[MutedMike 151 / 4,193]

5 hours ago, wget said:

 

counterpoint: i played on the server twice a few weeks ago and there were several timeouts while there wasn't a single timeout today 

You also played on the server yesterday and witnessed 2 timeouts in the same map because of the fact that trying to kill each other was so slow that haunted vs restless went past overtime and into timeout, (even though neither were camping) because of the slow ttk. I don't know why you're trying to say it didn't happen when it very much so does.

5 hours ago, Unaverage Joe said:

5 hours ago, wget said:

 

it's just weird, i know it's not for everyone but if you're setting yourself up to have no fun, then you're obviously not gonna have fun

 

I hate the argument of "well if you jump into it hating it then you'll hate it" because it undermines any experience I have with the addon and chalks it up to "bad mindset". It's not like I jumped into it actually hating it. I genuinely tried it out on multiple occasions and have come to the conclusion it's not fun. The FoT addon is polarizing and changes too many mechanics for me to enjoy it. I liked the way TTT worked before the update. It's not me "having a bad mindset", it's just me not enjoying FoT. 

[wget 71 / 1,607]

11 minutes ago, MutedMike said:

You also played on the server yesterday and witnessed 2 timeouts in the same map because of the fact that trying to kill each other was so slow that haunted vs restless went past overtime and into timeout, (even though neither were camping) because of the slow ttk. I don't know why you're trying to say it didn't happen when it very much so does.

 

what i remember was a ~5 min restless round in gas station that ended in iirc a restless win and a ~6 min one in community pool iirc a traitor win but i don't remember that too much so that might've been the timeout win you're saying

 

regardless again i think it's very silly to pretend that the restless delays is an issue that's unique to the event and especially haunted vs restless, and this is 2 rounds out of the countless rounds that day

 

11 minutes ago, MutedMike said:

I hate the argument of "well if you jump into it hating it then you'll hate it" because it undermines any experience I have with the addon and chalks it up to "bad mindset". It's not like I jumped into it actually hating it. I genuinely tried it out on multiple occasions and have come to the conclusion it's not fun. The FoT addon is polarizing and changes too many mechanics for me to enjoy it. I liked the way TTT worked before the update. It's not me "having a bad mindset", it's just me not enjoying FoT. 

 

idk it's hard not to say that when you joined that day with what seems to be the intent to find things to complain about, you clearly did not join merely to "try it out"

and this feels mean to say but it seemed like you weren't just content with just not enjoying it yourself, but you also wanted others not to enjoy it as well

it didn't seem like a constructive kind of complaining, like you were just reaching for things to blame on the event, like you mentioned "hitreg manipulation" and "peeker's advantage" as aspects that are missing from the event (which is confusing considering that i'd consider these to be negative things and i think it's a good thing that their effects are minimised by the event)

you wanted to make such a huge point about the slow reloads you went to grab a one-shot rifle, shot it into a wall, and loudly complained talking over everyone about how slow the reload is, and you did this repeatedly many many times for some reason

it's not that what you were doing was so fucked up and horrible, i thought it was kinda funny but it does show you joined just to express how frustrated you were about the event

and that's fine, it's ok not to enjoy it, but idk i won't pretend that you honestly just wanted to give it a genuine try

 

anyway i'm not saying you should give it a shot, i don't care if you like it or not, you don't have to try to enjoy something you don't like, i just think your concerns about it are overblown

[MutedMike 151 / 4,193]

I've said this a few times already, but I want to clarify that the event did not cause the problems I have, the changes to the base game that the event makes just makes them a lot more visible now that the fluff that is fast time to kill, fast weapons, and fast movement covered up. 
 

1 hour ago, wget said:

 

what i remember was a ~5 min restless round in gas station that ended in iirc a restless win and a ~6 min one in community pool iirc a traitor win but i don't remember that too much so that might've been the timeout win you're saying

 

there were 2 timeouts in community pool, both being innocent wins even though there were no innocents in either timeout. Slowing down the gameplay will make it more commonplace with roles like this around.

1 hour ago, wget said:

regardless again i think it's very silly to pretend that the restless delays is an issue that's unique to the event and especially haunted vs restless, and this is 2 rounds out of the countless rounds that day

When the pacing of a game is slowed down, roles that are already slower to play will be slower to play. That's the issue I'm getting at. Anarchy has slowly built a balance so that any role can still be played effectively in the server without worrying too much about timeouts due to game mechanics. With the FoT event and slowing down the base game, it disrupts that balance, making certain things that were basically non-issues easier to see. Delays, hitreg, broken roles, no one is saying that FoT started these problems, they're just easier to notice now and since there's less options we have to counter said problems, and it's annoying

1 hour ago, wget said:

idk it's hard not to say that when you joined that day with what seems to be the intent to find things to complain about, you clearly did not join merely to "try it out"

I played on the original month long event and tried it out on a private server with friends, and I came to the conclusion I didn't like it. When I joined the server and tested out the problems I had originally and realized they weren't changed, I didn't like it and said something about it.

1 hour ago, wget said:

and this feels mean to say but it seemed like you weren't just content with just not enjoying it yourself, but you also wanted others not to enjoy it as well

it didn't seem like a constructive kind of complaining, like you were just reaching for things to blame on the event

Stop with the character attacks, please. I'm not dissing you specifically nor am I trying to assume who you are as a person to make a point, I'd appreciate if you don't do that to me as well. I'm writing my own personal problems about the event on a forum where personal problems about the event are welcome, and that's it. I will be refuting these attacks tho

I gave constructive criticism, talked about the original problems I had of the event, only to get snide remarks back, so I started showing examples while vocalizing my problems more, to an exaggerated degree (which I do apologize for), so I can show the specific problems I have. 

1 hour ago, wget said:

you mentioned "hitreg manipulation" and "peeker's advantage" as aspects that are missing from the event (which is confusing considering that i'd consider these to be negative things and i think it's a good thing that their effects are minimised by the event)

I never said they were positive things, in fact I clarified seconds later that they aren't good things, it was a counter to the argument that was being made that camping is still as much of a problem as it is in the base game. They were problems that were also solutions to another problem, and only fixing one and not the other makes it a lot easier to notice the other. 

 

1 hour ago, wget said:

 

you wanted to make such a huge point about the slow reloads you went to grab a one-shot rifle, shot it into a wall, and loudly complained talking over everyone about how slow the reload is, and you did this repeatedly many many times for some reason

I grabbed a a variety of weapons in multiple rounds to prove my point. Since basically every weapon is either a single action rifle or a shotgun (save a very small portion of weapons), and reloading becomes a lot more commonplace because of how little ammo there is in each gun, it's a lot more annoying to fight with. I also didn't go out of my way to pick one specific gun to try to twist my logic. I picked up the first gun I saw and tried to get into a gun fight when I was bad around 7 times, all of them being different weapons. All of the ones I picked up had the same problem that I wrote down on this page: slow reloads, little to no mag size, and penalizing movement on top of that just makes it so I don't want to move anymore, and in order to not get punished for not moving, the best way to do that is camping. That's how I came to the conclusion that it can be a problem.

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by MutedMike

[MutedMike 151 / 4,193]

I also just want to say I do appreciate the unique take on the gameplay and I respect you as a developer and person for making it public, it's just not my style.