Port royal & trim mentality

[bb_IU 106 / 2,869]

DISCLAIMER:

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This post was mainly made to put out some thoughts that I had about the trim mentality which pops up in Port royal, and to hopefully open up a meaningful discussion on it.

If you find that any of my information regarding the map boss is wrong, please do correct me on it!

Also shoutout to the player Nathalie for really changing my mindset on this map!
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  I'm sure that many of you are aware of the trim mentality that a majority of the regular playerbase (I am guilty of adopting this mentality quite often) on the server adopts whenever the kraken levels on port royal come up. The calls: "hug the bridge", "don't heal the team until the end", and "don't tell them about the bomb", are all too familiar to many of us. Regularly, false commanding / getting team members killed like this, is usually frowned upon on the server, but the general consensus seems to be that it is justified whenever the kraken (Both the normal Kraken and the God Kraken) levels of port royal come up. This is mainly due to how the boss HP scales with the amount of players that go into the boss fight, the scaling being more players resulting in a higher starting health for the boss, and a lower amount of players resulting in a lower amount of health for the boss. The reason that the HP scaling is a "problem" for those who want trim, is because the assumption that all of the newer players who are playing the map for the first time/new to zombie escape in general, will die early on in the boss fight to a push or pull from the kraken, resulting in a drastic lowering of the team's chance to win the bossfight.

 

  This is where I started to find issues with the mentality. Although it is fun to watch people get trimmed from time to time, it really does not help the newer players get good or even give them a good impression of the server. I understand that a lot of players are focused on winning the map when it comes to "tryhard" maps like port royal, so most players could care less about the newer players, but rather than winning by intentionally trying to get the newer players/ players who are unfamiliar with the map killed, why don't players on the server attempt to "teach" the players the bossfight instead. If the regular players on the server attempt to help the newer players get better rather than trying to just sacrifice them for the win, I feel that the general skill level on GFL could be raised, and a more positive atmosphere could be promoted. Aside from this, the map is played on a regular basis (Almost every day I think?), so losing the map isn't as bad as compared to the effects of just making new players feel like sacrificial sheep and making them feel as if the server is for elitists only.

 

A counter argument that could be made is that: players can just learn if they keep dying over and over because of the same things. The problem with this is that it still supports the trim mentality, and I understand that alot of players who are regulars, are only really like this on port royal or maps which "REQUIRE" trim, but the newer players might gain the misconception that false commanding like this is the norm on the GFL ZE server, and will spread it to other maps, thus continuing the cycle of negative experiences for other players. 

 

  All in all,  I might be super wrong on alot of things and just plain stupid, but I just feel that players shouldn't really support the trim mentality on pirates. There's not much to gain from it aside from your daily screenshot of winning port royal. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Edited November 2, 2017 by IU.

[WarpedCakez 217 / 5,391]

First off I want to say that I really like this write up of problems within the server. We need some of these from time to time to try to improve the server. Now with that being said...

 

1. Pirates Port Royal is a shit map

 

The map is not balanced very well given the high hp bosses and op zombie item (if used correctly). It also attracts the most cancerous players on any "tryhard" map I've played. The mixture of the two results in poor leading and trims too occur (which I think you mentioned).

 

2. The new players to zombie escape are REALLY bad

 

Coming from leading experience myself, you really get to learn how shitty some of these kids are with commands and general movement mechanics to Source engine games. You tell them, "On the wave you go forward" or "On the wave you hold W", and they will still end up dying. Even while helping them out I get self-muted or told to fuck off when I watch them die to stupid shit like that. Trims were then introduced back when old pirates was a thing so that players who actually would understand how the game worked survived while the cancer bad players would end up dying.

 

3. Old habits die hard

 

For someone playing since 2015, GFL has been notorious for trimming on the map. I mentioned last point that they were introduced in the old version of pirates. Back in the day we used to wall people out of the final boat (since there was only one door to get inside) and that was allowed. So for old players like me its normal to trim a few noobs.

 

Not sure if this really solved anything but I just wanted to put my perspective on the map and server mentality as a whole.

[bb_IU 106 / 2,869]

42 minutes ago, WarpedCakez said:

First off I want to say that I really like this write up of problems within the server. We need some of these from time to time to try to improve the server. Now with that being said...

 

1. Pirates Port Royal is a shit map

 

The map is not balanced very well given the high hp bosses and op zombie item (if used correctly). It also attracts the most cancerous players on any "tryhard" map I've played. The mixture of the two results in poor leading and trims too occur (which I think you mentioned).

 

2. The new players to zombie escape are REALLY bad

 

Coming from leading experience myself, you really get to learn how shitty some of these kids are with commands and general movement mechanics to Source engine games. You tell them, "On the wave you go forward" or "On the wave you hold W", and they will still end up dying. Even while helping them out I get self-muted or told to fuck off when I watch them die to stupid shit like that. Trims were then introduced back when old pirates was a thing so that players who actually would understand how the game worked survived while the cancer bad players would end up dying.

 

3. Old habits die hard

 

For someone playing since 2015, GFL has been notorious for trimming on the map. I mentioned last point that they were introduced in the old version of pirates. Back in the day we used to wall people out of the final boat (since there was only one door to get inside) and that was allowed. So for old players like me its normal to trim a few noobs.

 

Not sure if this really solved anything but I just wanted to put my perspective on the map and server mentality as a whole.

 

 

Thank you for taking the time to type out your reply! I'm not super confident in my ability to reply to your post but I will try my best:

 

  Starting off with your second point, I can understand where you're coming from. I might be too optimistic and wishful with regards to my mindset about newer players being able to listen to leaders or have a decent level of competency. But I still feel that we can "salvage" a decent amount of players from the newer player group, and get them to improve in terms of skill. Not too long ago, I was one of those newer players getting trimmed by all kinds of ZE boss attacks on a daily basis (To put things into perspective, this is my first counterstrike game ever), but now I'm decent enough to not die 70% of the time. I attribute this to the supportive players in the ZE community, and even though my progress in terms of getting a player was quite slow (still is lul) at the start, I found myself becoming less and less of a burden to the team as I encountered more helpful players on the server. I feel like if we try and give the newer players a chance, and support, you might be surprised by the amount of progress that they can make in their player skill.

 

  Moving to the third point, I agree that old habits die hard. I completely understand how hard it is to stop doing something that you are used to doing on a regular basis. Old habits can't change entirely in leaps and bounds, but rather through small steps and consistent progress. In my opinion, the habit of trimming players could be eradicated over time on the server if being "noob friendly" was promoted more on the server, but considering that this requires actually believing that players on GFL actually give a crap about noobs, it could be said that this type of thinking about removing the the trimming of players from a server is unrealistic and unattainable due to the nature of people on the internet.

 

  In the end, even though I'd love it if the trim mentality on port royal would disappear, realistically it probably never will. Even if it never does, it wouldn't hurt for more players to be more supportive of the anti trim mentality due to how it might help more players to become good at ZE. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Side note: 
I've had some thoughts about admins being a bit more strict towards false commands on port royal, and I was wondering about why that would not work.


Edit:
This discussion may not really go anywhere, but I enjoy discussing the server like this.

Edited November 2, 2017 by IU.

[mjong99 58 / 3,342]

Nothing wrong with trimming at the bridge. As a noob, you're only gonna get bridge trimmed once, you should have learned by the next round that the bridge is not safe to stand around the next time you're there. Many times, these noobs don't listen or can't comprehend orders given by leaders during the boss stage. So I would say this is just part of the learning curve and there's nothing wrong with it.

[Hydreigon 87 / 3,694]

Warped pretty much summed the whole "Pirates isn't a good map at all" for me so I don't have to create a useless wall of text on why I think the map is bad. I made a similar thread about this map before.

 

Anyway, doing something about the trim mentality on this map is easier said than done because of bad map design. I hate to admit but the server has to avoid this map if they currently would like to tackle something fun and interesting (maybe go for a map that isn't in normal rotation). I can't really find a good time when to vote this map either.

[Flops 386 / 7,269]

pirates isn't tryhard, its a casual fun map. You cannot generalize a mentality on one casual goof map to all of ze - This mentality exists as a result of the one specific map. I cannot think of another map where trim is seriously encouraged/necessary

 

*explosion of IU's head upon realizing this*

 

(if it was tryhard you would be 100% right about it being bad)

[DUSTY 170 / 4,093]

I agree 100%. The server would be so much better if they removed all the Final Fantasy maps.

[1mpact 107 / 3,838]

Yeah i agree with you bb IU, i've seen dozens of players who are new to the server leave and never come back after following false commands multiple on this map. A few experienced players have also said that more players = less chance of the double vortex combo which is usually the reason a majority of new players die at the boss. 

[hotEvercLear 194 / 4,723]

BB UI is good people, even though whim once said he architected 9/11....

 

I would tend to agree with BB. The best way to learn is to do... and if you keep trimming guys before the boss fight, they will never get good at the boss fight.  Also, if you die confused by a bad command, I dont think you will learn as much as if you are getting accurate orders....

 

 

[Doorandal 20 / 3,115]

On 11/2/2017 at 10:09 PM, WarpedCakez said:

2. The new players to zombie escape are REALLY bad

 

Coming from leading experience myself, you really get to learn how shitty some of these kids are with commands and general movement mechanics to Source engine games. You tell them, "On the wave you go forward" or "On the wave you hold W", and they will still end up dying. Even while helping them out I get self-muted or told to fuck off when I watch them die to stupid shit like that. Trims were then introduced back when old pirates was a thing so that players who actually would understand how the game worked survived while the cancer bad players would end up dying.

i'm agree with bb iu at some point like teaching the new players how to do some things that allowed or not and etc, to slowly avoiding the mentality of trimming so they gonna love to learn how to beat pirates port royal (or any other map that have a trimming part) till the end. 

 

but i also agree about what warped says in his 2nd statement. the new ze player are just bad. what i found mostly are some of these new player are not even listening to the leader or at least learning the boss attack pattern etc. i don't even know why they died multiple times for the same things (maybe they inactive their voice chat or just bad at english).

i remember i was a bad player back then but i found ze is really fun so i take an offline practice, watching ze youtube, and do many things to makes me better (actually bcs my potato cannot play MM for some reason) so i slowly can avoided any traps, winning a boss fight, do a trigger, using item, even jumping lasers with hi ping. I actually love pirates port royal bcs we dont have to jump any lasers, yea but it also a terrible map.

 

imo;

- it gonna took a lot of time to change our habit for trimming in some parts, but we can let them know that next round we have to avoid the trim parts.

- some of the new player barely know anything about what to do in zombie escape

- that's why, probably these kind of new players didnt expect that zombie escape is not just running/escaping from the zombies like in the television or the other video games, bcs we have a boss to fight, avoiding trap, when to defend, using materia/item at a right time, etc. (which is we have to teach them)

- or they just easily get bored so they leave the server soon forever.

 

in fact, not every people that playing zombie escape are a serious player. we just have to teach these new players what to do in zombie escape (tbh i still don't like the idea of trimming but it's fun to watch when you know the map). the rest is, it's their own choice if they want to learn zombie escape or leave the server.

 

actually, what i hate the most is the habit of the old player that likes to troll any item (for example, using bubbles at the waterfall jump to reduce our sight or using wall at the jump which makes some people fell off and dead, or using earth at the escape door in mako ex2 so the ppl who left behind died, yektima when the map hasnt been finished, etc).

 

Everything i type here is just my own opinion ?

Edited November 12, 2017 by mikasa