Stacked punishments and interference

[Flops 386 / 7,269]

Its time for me to post another controversial thread because quarantine has made me bored out of my mind. If you want, skip to the second issue of stacked punishments cause the first issue is really just me ranting LOL

I'd like to talk about two issues for now:

 

First and kinda unimportant issue:

 

Randoms on the forums

_________________________

 

I don't see why morons in the GFL community who have nothing to do with ze constantly feel the need to provide nonstop commentary on SERVER/SERVER CULTURE issues in this forum. I get the obvious irony here seeing as I hardly play ze, but hey at least I've played before :^).

 

yes i also know its a forum where anyone in gfl can contribute but like

 

shut up

 

no one cares about what a forum moderator or about what a gmod server admin thinks about ze issues

 

 

this is literally you @motorsteak

 

__________________________________________

 

SECOND AND ACTUAL IMPORTANT ISSUE

 

Stacked punishments

 

I seriously don't understand stacked punishments, and I think they are a stupid form of dealing with rulebreaking in a server like GFL. Stacked punishments should only really be in place if there was a huge lack of server admins. The obvious solution to this issue would be to implement stacked mutes, since long punishments may be necessary if the server cannot be kept under watch at all times. This would prevent a dedicated troll from just coming on at 3 am when no admin is on to screw around.

 

In a server like GFL, which is THE biggest CS;GO server, is kept on near 24/7 watch,  and has a report system, there certainly is no need for stacked punishments.

 

Under the system of stacked punishments, here's what admins can do:

 

1. Gag permanently for small offenses like hitting a bind

 

2. Mute someone for a week for having a bad microphone one time (perhaps mouth too close to mic, etc)

 

3. Be assholes to players and bait them into getting long mutes/gags if they retaliate like normal humans would (going back to the double standard I mentioned in an earlier post)

 

4. Something that JUST happened btw: permanently ban a player for throwing pistols at item chasers and causing 1 second delays in a person getting an item. Seriously? 

 

Why did we stop evaluating offences in context? A person spamming the n word and boosting and blasting earrape on microphone can be banned/punished for less time than a person who hit a silly copypasta bind on his keyboard. You guys are turning into the fucking US justice system with stacked punishments.

 

There's also a huge issue with a lack of warnings. I literally have not seen an admin warn another player or communicate discontent since 2018. Hey guys, remember communicating? Even under this system, don't you think a person would stop rulebreaking if you just remind them that they will be muted/gagged/banned/ebanned for a long time? Nah, instead lets just mute/gag/ban/eban instantly, and then be assholes when people complain about it. 

 

I feel like we've lost the spirit of ze. Trolls who are doing harmless things to keep the game fun are being treated like malicious e-terrorists who hold the server hostage. This may be due to an admin team full of silent randoms who are gonna leave in a year anyways, or other factors. Regardless, I don't think the spirit of ze is keeping the server permanently silenced with no fun/spice whatsoever. An admin team that just two years ago embraced a spirit of casual trolling and fun is now intent on stamping out all attempts at having fun. 

 

THIS IS NOT TO SAY THAT I THINK ALL TROLLING IS OKAY. People who boost, do huge item trolls like walling everyone off, and people who blast 150 db earrape on the microphone are malicious and should be punished as such.

However, there simply isn't a distinction being made anymore. Have you guys forgotten what ze is? Fun, chill, and casual at its core. 

 

As a long time player and undeniable troll, I feel sad when I see fellow players and friends be punished like Al Capone at his prime in 2016. A system like this is doing lots of harm to ze's culture of lighthearted tomfoolery. Ignorant, out of touch, and unreasonable admins are the root of this problem.

 

Stop playing ze like its your fucking job, start warning people again. and abolish this dumb system for good. I'd love to see a return of lighthearted fun along with admins who contribute to that fun culture as well. 

 

 

 

rant over

 

 

and seriously, please don't put your two cents in the comments if you don't play ze or are named motorsteak

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[willywilson 199 / 5,585]

50 minutes ago, Flops said:

In a server like GFL, which is THE biggest CS;GO server, is kept on near 24/7 watch,  and has a report system, there certainly is no need for stacked punishments.

 

 

 

Stop playing ze like its your fucking job

 

 

We can't be on 24/7, and obviously can't play it like a job, which is hwy it's not kept on watch 24/7. You want us to watch it 24/7, but then not play it like a job? 

 

Stacked punishments in my opinion are effective as it's consistently the same people who boost, troll, micspam, etc. Look at yourself, or even zeo, and compare it to a player like ricca, or gkuo, both of them have played on gfl for a while, gkuo's been on ze waayyyy longer than you, yet never had an issue. It's seemingly a small part of the player base, that consistently does the same shit. Why not stack punishments if it's the same 5 people doing it over and over and over again?

 

Edit: I'd also like to say I find perm bans a bit extreme, and for zeo's case I'd say ban him for a year, as people can change, and he did go 6 months since his unban without trolling. 

Edited May 9, 2020 by willywilson

[Aurora is smelly 192 / 5,018]

54 minutes ago, Flops said:

 

this is literally you @motorsteak

yo I agree fuck motorstreak 

 

hello all forum staff I would like to thank you for monitoring my account and hope you enjoy my post

Edited May 9, 2020 by Banjo Kazooie

[Flops 386 / 7,269]

21 minutes ago, willywilson said:

 

We can't be on 24/7, and obviously can't play it like a job, which is hwy it's not kept on watch 24/7. You want us to watch it 24/7, but then not play it like a job? 

 

Stacked punishments in my opinion are effective as it's consistently the same people who boost, troll, micspam, etc. Look at yourself, or even zeo, and compare it to a player like ricca, or gkuo, both of them have played on gfl for a while, gkuo's been on ze waayyyy longer than you, yet never had an issue. It's seemingly a small part of the player base, that consistently does the same shit. Why not stack punishments if it's the same 5 people doing it over and over and over again?

 ze is watched and moderated heavily are u kidding me lol.

 

 

Also, i don't understand the point you are making. Yes, I and people like me troll. I am not saying that isnt true... I'm saying there has been a culture shift, and small, harmless shit that could've been done b4 is not tolerated at all now under the current system of stacked punishments

 

 

Willy, if you weren't an admin and the current server rules were enforced as you believe they should be, you would literally be perma muted after countless instances of player disrespect and "mic spamming" whenever you lead and prevent ANYONE else on the sv from getting a word in edgewise. How can the cognitive dissonance be this bad LOL

Edited May 9, 2020 by Flops

[z e o 24 / 1,828]

Tossing pistols is really perm ban worthy.  Betrayed by my fellow Canadian

[Joshy 4,368 / 44,996]

Is it silly for me to ask what stacked punishments are?  Is that something for repeat offenders they don't get the usual escalation of new or visiting players?

 

I mean...  if it's repeat offenders.  There's really no case for them.  They need to stop.  They've already gotten their warnings.  It's really as simple as that.  It doesn't make sense to warn them over again; they already know what they're doing.

 

Something I can agree on is not hammering down on minor things even if it is a repeat offender.  It's a very common problem not limited to GFL neither video games.  A person rubs off against others in the wrong way and they're suddenly in the spotlight.  Out of sight; out of mind no longer works for them, and everyone has hawk eyes with their finger resting on the bind key that has their ban and lame reason ready to go.  Unfortunately: This numbers game works far too often for people to not give it a chance, and so they'll go for the ban whenever they can.  It's reinforced and positively reflects their performance, and they are more likely to get things their way or an eventual promotion; they probably also get a small thrill out of it.  For some reason I've noticed more hostile admins are kind of amusing and it probably attracts shitty people to join the servers and troll.  It's a vicious cycle.

 

My perspective is the best leadership or admin can get the job done using their permissions as little as possible if at all.

[phantom153 43 / 2,255]

But i mean how can we trust the admins to do their job when they are so incredibly hypocritical. For example my last mute was 3/31/20 for racism by willy wilson.  but then you turn around and on 4/21/2020 the same admin who muted me for racism says this. These stacked punishments seem to be exclusively for people who the admins do not like, meanwhile the weazel gang could kill a child and ze management would act like they were the DNC and weasle gang was joe biden. this servers management is beyond hypocritical

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Flops said:

 

this is literally you @motorsteak

i don't remember even thinking about your existence at all recently, mind telling me who shit in your corn flakes?

[FistMeDaddy 12 / 1,735]

stacked punishment ass

management sucks

admins trash

this man is one of the only spergies who seems to remotely care to improve the server

good luck bro

[willywilson 199 / 5,585]

6 hours ago, phantom153 said:

But i mean how can we trust the admins to do their job when they are so incredibly hypocritical. For example my last mute was 3/31/20 for racism by willy wilson.  but then you turn around and on 4/21/2020 the same admin who muted me for racism says this.

 

 

Just for reference, I know for a fact, that this was before 04/21, because the kneegrow tag, duma kicked me from that group like 2 months ago

[VilhjalmrF 2,099 / 30,689]

What a shit fest.

[Flops 386 / 7,269]

9 hours ago, Joshy said:

Is it silly for me to ask what stacked punishments are?  Is that something for repeat offenders they don't get the usual escalation of new or visiting players?

 

I mean...  if it's repeat offenders.  There's really no case for them.  They need to stop.  They've already gotten their warnings.  It's really as simple as that.  It doesn't make sense to warn them over again; they already know what they're doing.

 

Something I can agree on is not hammering down on minor things even if it is a repeat offender.  It's a very common problem not limited to GFL neither video games.  A person rubs off against others in the wrong way and they're suddenly in the spotlight.  Out of sight; out of mind no longer works for them, and everyone has hawk eyes with their finger resting on the bind key that has their ban and lame reason ready to go.  Unfortunately: This numbers game works far too often for people to not give it a chance, and so they'll go for the ban whenever they can.  It's reinforced and positively reflects their performance, and they are more likely to get things their way or an eventual promotion; they probably also get a small thrill out of it.  For some reason I've noticed more hostile admins are kind of amusing and it probably attracts shitty people to join the servers and troll.  It's a vicious cycle.

 

My perspective is the best leadership or admin can get the job done using their permissions as little as possible if at all.

 

stacked punishments is the current punishment system on ze. Essentially, each punishment has categories - Ebans, bans, mutes, gags. Successive punishments in ONE category increase in duration, from 30 mins to 1 hr to a day to a week etc, and they do not "stack" from category to category. My next ban may be permanent, but my next mute may still be 30 mins.

 

I agree for the most part--repeat offenders who do really dumb and destructive things on the sv should def be punished. Small things like silly audio clips or whatnot should not be even included in the stack system. 

 

 

[TheJitFace 699 / 18,162]

I don’t play ZE or any of the servers anymore, but I do agree with you when it comes to admins baiting and giving stupid punishments. I have seen some admins doing that when I used to go on certain servers. These admins need to understand that you won’t be rewarded for muting someone after baiting them. You don’t get rewarded for how many mutes, gags, or kicks you have. 

[gkuo88 67 / 2,820]

Shouldn't have implemented this bhop cancer. But nooo, gotta pander to a smaller minority so they can gain an advantage and then expect everyone else to have a comfy laidback time. 

 

Trolling is always going to be punished, acting on it is easy, and it benefits a single troublemaker over the rest of the players. Something something overall happiness values, something something maximizing player population, keeping the server alive. Permitting it promotes others to act the same and pushes players to not act as a team, which is almost integral to the game in its current state. Like I said, any mechanic that gives a boost to the zombies, will weaken humans. Ans people simply care more about winning as a human than winning as a zombie. Add bhop, decrease knockback, failnades, removal of rebuys etc its all the same shit which the manager of the css forced on its community. All of a sudden, defenses needed 50% more people, maps which used to be self sustaining needed leadership, and players started spectating more and more. Of course players dont keep track of the settings which are implemented nor do they think about consequences of settings. Which is why if they begin to lose a bit more than often, they start blaming each other. And that blame gets carried over to the people at the top, which prompts the people at the top to tighten restrictions on the players. You can think of it like this. In the past, a 2 hour tryhard session would probably lose 1 to 2 rounds due to trolling, bringing in frustration, but at the end of the day, most players could tolerate it. Now the same 1 to 2 round are naturally lost due to difficulty and add in another few lost rounds due to trolling, it becomes tiresome enough that its dictated as a harm.

 

Then again I can't fully blame it on retard mechanics. Zombie escape is just full of wanky messes that can't really be fixed. For example, many mappers fall for the difficulty meme and make some 30+ defense at the end of 9 minutes or drag a round to 20 minutes long. Its these sorts of maps which either end with humans bitching about how its their teammates faults, or zombies bitching how they were powerless on a winning round, cus they only ended up killing 20 humans in 20 minutes, aka a average of 1 person per 10 minutes of running. But if players are naturally attracted to those sorts of maps, then there's nothing much that can be done about it. On the other hand, we have "easy" maps where theres no need for leadership, and players end up naturally getting trimmed every minute, and there isn't much of a need for teamwork. Problem with these maps however is, they get won easily and get rtved after 1 round. The second type of map is essentially more capable of "handling" trolling but if people go for the first, what can be done about it?

 

Legitly there ain't a solution to any of this, its pretty much hard as fock to intermix tryhard and comfiness in this day and age. Your best bet is to stick with casual maps or something. Or do jailbreak. 

[Joshy 4,368 / 44,996]

2 hours ago, Flops said:

 

stacked punishments is the current punishment system on ze. Essentially, each punishment has categories - Ebans, bans, mutes, gags. Successive punishments in ONE category increase in duration, from 30 mins to 1 hr to a day to a week etc, and they do not "stack" from category to category. My next ban may be permanent, but my next mute may still be 30 mins.

 

I agree for the most part--repeat offenders who do really dumb and destructive things on the sv should def be punished. Small things like silly audio clips or whatnot should not be even included in the stack system. 

 

Does it gradually clear off like after 6 months?

[phantom153 43 / 2,255]

3 hours ago, willywilson said:

 

 

Just for reference, I know for a fact, that this was before 04/21, because the kneegrow tag, duma kicked me from that group like 2 months ago

ok fine the dates wrong but the point still stands. Dont try to invalidate the point by just saying oh the dates wrong hur dur

[Flops 386 / 7,269]

55 minutes ago, Joshy said:

 

Does it gradually clear off like after 6 months?

 

As far as I know, I don't believe so. Stacked mutes do not clear off "officially," but someone who comes on the sv once a billion years prolly wont be a victim of stacked mutes.  My current month long mute (lol) comes from a two week mute i received in march, and if I make some more admins unhappy 7 months down the line my next mute is permanent. 

[Joshy 4,368 / 44,996]

If someone posts 2+2=5, then is it really a controversial topic?  People will get loud because the answer is obvious; not because it's controversial.

 

I agree with you that some people can have these hawk eyes and probably even provoke unnecessary situations from happening instead of deescalating it or using critical thinking, but otherwise stacked punishments sounds like a very practical system.  I do hope that the passage of time is considered so that mutes from a year ago isn't held against someone, but if you're just exiting a month long mute and you repeat within weeks an offense that warrants a mute, then that's on the individual (in other words you screwed up).  The mutes aren't just a punishment; it's a warning.  They're literally telling you that they don't want you to do it anymore.

 

Maybe what warrants a mute is too unclear or maybe they are muting petty things.  You might have a better thread trying to clear up or define what kind of microphone activities warrant a mute...  which activity is gray area and what kind of context might make it okay to spam a little bit.

 

Also: If I were you and worried about being on my last steps...  I wouldn't just stop spamming (even the little things)...  start recording demos of all your rounds.  It's a little annoying, but it might save you.  Save them for a few days before deleting it just in case.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Joshy

[Flops 386 / 7,269]

1 minute ago, Joshy said:

maybe they are muting petty things. 

 

yes

 

15 hours ago, Flops said:

I feel like we've lost the spirit of ze. Trolls who are doing harmless things to keep the game fun are being treated like malicious e-terrorists who hold the server hostage. This may be due to an admin team full of silent randoms who are gonna leave in a year anyways, or other factors. Regardless, I don't think the spirit of ze is keeping the server permanently silenced with no fun/spice whatsoever. An admin team that just two years ago embraced a spirit of casual trolling and fun is now intent on stamping out all attempts at having fun. 

yes, there is a distinction between 150db earrape and someone playing a voice clip

 

I am saying what admins dislike nowadays is something that they dont properly warn about and is something that shouldnt even be disliked cause ze is a casual gamemode. 

[Joshy 4,368 / 44,996]

In their eyes: Your past history is your warning.  Any new warnings are a very kind although unnecessary courtesy.  Where do they draw the line?  Only where it benefits your or a few people?  I don't think so.