Council and their complete screw ups.

[Duck. 489 / 0]

Hey howdy hey, it is I, Duck, recently demoted for things said in DMs after being told to keep things in DMs. This thread is to recount everything Council has done in Internal Discords where they've completely shown they don't care. Lets start with The Failure Of Jinzu.

 

Jinzu is someone who has been openly racist on the server he manages (saying the N word on the server and then blaming it on being drunk), transphobic, breaks his own rules on the server and should've been demoted when all of the evidence was bought against him. All of this was bought to Council with the hope that it'd do something as it was bringing down a lot of his staff, and what did Council decide was the best punishment for all of this? A 14 day stand down. Where he just left to do some business anyway. A nothing punishment, because as Pyros said "He wasn't given a warning to correct his behaviour". I'm sorry, a Server Manager needs to be warned not to be racist, transphobic and not to break the rules on their own server? This is where my lack of faith in Council was starting to go down.

 

The dissolution of the Moderation Team.

 

This was a situation that was just an entire shitshow from the start. For starters, none of the mod team knew this was coming, it came out of nowhere after we had repeatedly asked for a meeting to discuss the mod team. Council themselves decided to dissolve the team while ignoring the want for a meeting and then act surprised when there was backlash. I was treated like an absolute cunt during this whole thing by Salad, Infra and Liloz as they put it down to me being mad I was demoted, when that wasn't it at all. I was mad at the lack of communication the Council had said they wanted. When I said this, I was "omegalul'd" to death and told "Communication was the announcement", "Communication isn't needed", "You should've seen this coming", "You're just mad you were demoted". When my entire point was that things should've been communicated to us beforehand rather than surprising us with this. Complete lack of Council was had then and I said things in the Main Discord about it, which fair enough, I should've kept everything to Internal, but when I'm being treated like a cunt in there because I wanted communication, what am I meant to do?

Promoting friends with no apps.

 

Things were good for a month or so after that, until Salad (Again) decided to do whatever he wanted and promoted his friend, JG, into the Social Media Team. This may not seem like a bad thing, but he never applied, he was just given the role. The reasoning for this is that he helped set up the Twitch, but an app should've been made and I bet it would've been accepted anyway, but Salad felt the need to skip this, not taking into account how his team would like it. And one team member who I won't name spoke up about it, saying that it felt unfair that he was just promoted with no app and that it could make others who did apply and were accepted/denied feel lesser because of it. I then said it's Council promoting who they want and no one gets a say, then proceeded to say that apps should be made regardless of the person to be fair to the other Team Members. I was told by Salad not to comment because I'm not a part of the Social Media Team, completely invalidating me even though this wasn't a team specific issue, this was a Salad wanting his friend to be promoted. Salad then proceeded to dismiss his team members feelings with "corporate sounding babble". My "going off" on Salad here led to my first demotion from Gmod Discord Moderator, which was weird as it had nothing to do with that role, but because Salad is a Senior Mod (temp mod btw), he had a say in it and advocated for my demotion despite his clear hatred of me. I was then almost demoted from SM too until I left every discord except from Gmod, Staff and Teams, and promised to watch what I say and keep things to DMs.

 

My recent DMs with Salad.

 

Just two days ago, I said in Gmod TTT Rotation (Now Modded) chat "the real salad kinda bad too" exactly like that. Very clearly trying to joke around and you'd  have to be looking for a problem to take offense to it., but he came in a few hours later and took offense, so I went into his DMs and laid everything out on the table for him. My distrust of him, why I think he was banned before and everything. For openness, here's what I said: https://imgur.com/a/kiWvKv6.    

Yes I was harsh, however, I was keeping my word and keeping it to DMs. Notice the one message where he said he doesn't care about my SM position. Well, he went straight to Nick and passed my DMs along despite the "Private Matters" rule. Nick, despite me being told to keep things to DMs, which I have done, decided this was enough to fully demote me from my position as Server Manager of TTT Rotation. A position I've worked hard on over the past year and was just in the middle of revamping the server. So pretty much, Salad got me demoted because of my DMs, despite me being told to "Keep it in DMs". A kind of a double edged sword if you asked me. No matter what I did, I would've been demoted anyway, as I did keep things to DMs after the first message which was very clearly a joke, but that wasn't good enough.

My demotions and Salad being much too sensitive to be in any Council role.

 

In both of my demotions, Salad had a leading role in them. Someone with a preconceived hatred and bias of me got to decide whether or not I retained my roles. This person is so weak to criticism that he silences and invalidates what you say because he can as he has so much pull in the community now that he can say what he wants and it's believed instantly.

 

I have been put under such an intense microscope recently due to my behaviour (mostly in the internal discords) meanwhile, we have Liloz who just made a suicide joke recently in the Gmod Discord

He then said it was more of a figure of speech when it was complained about. No apology or anything. What's the punishment for a suicide joke, which is far worse than anything I've ever done? Nothing. Nick said "Let me deal with Liloz" and yet, it's probably another weak warning for him.

Drakovic who is starting to get in there with the higher ups trying to start shit with me despite having never spoken to me based off what some others say about me https://discord.com/channels/505196032687079434/648667372131188749/769295780552769577

 

Yes, I've been harsh on those who seem like they're here for just roles, but I've explained many times why I do this, because I've seen a community I was apart of die when someone was given all of the roles because she had a thing with the owner. Like, legit die, all staff left because she was abusive and the owner did nothing. And I didn't want that to happen here. So I am highly critical of those people. Although I have recently apologized to Bue for it as she's been doing a good job, and I haven't said anything about her for a long time. Right now, the only problem is Salad.

Council rework is failing, they're putting too much trust on certain members, acting shocked when people don't like lack of communication, and everything I say here is probably going to get invalidated pretty fast, as that's what Liloz seems to be good at. But as long as we keep playing favorites here in GFL, the faster the Council is going to collapse due to lack of faith in them.

I've been told I may be able to reapply in a few months for my old position which I would like, as I put so much time and dedication into Rotation/Modded and worked hard to make it a toxic free environment, but I feel like that was just said to attempt to appease me, when I really shouldn't have been demoted in the first place since I did exactly what I said I would, kept things to DMs. It just feels like once a member of Council wants you gone, the rest will fall in line to make it happen.

 

Yes, I've been a cunt, but it's mostly been contained to private Discords where I assumed things would be kept private. But it seems like it never is. I've said a few things and bought my doubts up in main and gmod discords before, but it never got that bad to the point of needing to be told to stop, only being used against me when people wanted me gone.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Duck.

[Duck. 489 / 0]

If there's any questions or concerns, put them here and I'll get to them when I can

[Gumb4ll'98 11 / 513]

That transphobic part is pretty much taken out of context. Before Jesse/Rosa became admin, I asked them why they had that MtF tag in their name and their response was that it exposed the toxic individuals (or people who were just up to no good) to try and make fun of her for it, and she wanted to argue with these individuals and let people on the server to know that these people are just terrible people in general. My response to that was that she should not have that in her name because that would be openly trying to get drama and toxicity on the server when drama/toxicity doesn't need to be there in the first place, and she did it and i thought she would be better because of it (wasn't exactly the case).

My second disgreement with you is that you argue that Jinzu broke his own rules (which may or may not be the case as it's hard to tell based on the screenshot alone), but i remember when i made an abuse report on one of your admins for actually breaking the rules on your own server and your response was that it was fine, when it was in fact not fine (another server manager had to actually come in and tell me the situation was resolved after i discussed my disconcern with your response to that situation). It may be petty to bring it up but we're all bringing receipts here.

Summary of that was that one of his admins killed someone for having a T-weapon like 30s into the round without a T being dead, so the admin killed the person who claimed the T-weapon and said that no way no one would have a T-item that early without any T's being dead, which i refuted that a T could've just deliberately dropped the T-item (which i have done before)

 

I also made an abuse report on you about your discord moderating behaviour and i didn't get any response from you so i don't think you actually saw that. But it was just going over the fact that you were inconsistent with your punishments and descriptions of those punishments.

The first instance is warning people in MC for posting memes in general but not immediately warning his own admin for posting memes in Rot General until i called him out on it.

The second instance is him warning a few people for posting NSFW related content that wasn't necessarily NSFW but his description for it did not match how he handled that situation.

 

It's good to be critical of your seniors but you also gotta see your own shortcomings and how to improve yourself, which you clearly have not demonstrated that well (if at all). People have legitimate reasons to dislike you (me being one of them) and it's because of the way you handle things/yourself.

Spoiler

 

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by Gumb4ll'98
Spoiler Images

[Pyros 1,796 / 30,750]

1 hour ago, Duck. said:

All of this was bought to Council with the hope that it'd do something as it was bringing down a lot of his staff, and what did Council decide was the best punishment for all of this? A 14 day stand down.

Please inform yourself prior to making such claims. Council had nothing to do with that decision and I, alone as the Division Leader of Garry's Mod division, took the call. Council members did criticize my decision. Don't blame all when they had nothing to do with this.

 

1 hour ago, Duck. said:

Yes, I've been harsh on those who seem like they're here for just roles, but I've explained many times why I do this, because I've seen a community I was apart of die when someone was given all of the roles because she had a thing with the owner. Like, legit die, all staff left because she was abusive and the owner did nothing. And I didn't want that to happen here. So I am highly critical of those people. Although I have recently apologized to Bue for it as she's been doing a good job, and I haven't said anything about her for a long time. Right now, the only problem is Salad.

I will use Bue as example. She did a very good job on Rust. Got promoted due to it, people that are not around Rust division will only see as getting roles because of gender. Salad, who has been in GFL for years, did a good job and was promoted to other positions, I fail to see how it compares to your old community where the owner gave someone a role for existing.

 

1 hour ago, Duck. said:

everything I say here is probably going to get invalidated pretty fast,

If that happens, doesn't that mean your arguments are bad and/or missing parts?

 

1 hour ago, Duck. said:

Yes, I've been a cunt, but it's mostly been contained to private Discords where I assumed things would be kept private.

By this logic, everything that happens in a private discord shouldn't be punished?

 

31 minutes ago, Gumb4ll'98 said:

 

I also made an abuse report on you about your discord moderating behaviour and i didn't get any response from you so i don't think you actually saw that

It's common sense to not reply to a report on yourself.

 

[Gumb4ll'98 11 / 513]

Just now, Pyros said:

It's common sense to not reply to a report on yourself.

I think i was bringing that up because of how he handled that whole situation of being demoted from discord moderator that it didn't seem like he read my abuse report on him.

[Nick 1,249 / 17,857]

Hi, Duck. I will try my best to address the concerns you have mentioned here.

 

Let's just start with your demotion. This is not some spur of the moment decision, but rather months of trying to work with you. Many staff members have had talks with you regarding conduct, but it would always repeat itself. A little over a week ago (December 19th) this culminated in a stern message from Pyros where you were told to pick between staying as an admin and work on your behavior or leave the staff team. Pyros was very generous and allowed you to stay as manager (albeit with a 24-hour suspension) after you promised to work on your tone, reread everything before you send it, and you even went as far to promise going no-contact with most other staff. However, only a little over a week later, you had already relapsed into the old patterns which you clearly showed in your interaction with Salad. This was the final straw; all our leniency had been used up. I then made the decision to demote you.

 

I will try to quickly address the rest of your post. There is a lot of context to all of this, but I will try my best to summarize:

• The handling of the mentioned server manager was a GMOD decision; not a Council decision. His punishment might have been too mild, but he used it as an opportunity to work on himself and get the issues sorted. And he has since then tried to repair relations, but from what I have seen this has not been reciprocated.
• The mod team ordeal was a mess; I think everyone knows that and has commented on it; which is good. The Council took all of this into consideration and did their best to rectify the things that went wrong by e.g. sending out apologies and allowing old moderators to somewhat smoothly join the new team.
• The decision to promote a team member was a TL decision (As a side note, Social Media has two TLs as well); not a Council decision. The TLs can run their teams how they see fit, and it is quite normal for new teams to skip some formalities when in the start-up phase. A team member was not too happy about it, and they stated their opinion and it was addressed by the TLs. There was no reason for you to insert yourself, and you even did so in an disrespectful manner.
• Your remark about Salad was in bad taste, and you should know that it would be a very bad idea to do so. A lot of eyes were on you at this point especially since you had already brought the matter of your moderation position up to me. I am not sure what you expected. Salad did not ask for you to "lay everything on the table", and what you did to him is harassment in my book; unacceptable conduct from a staff member to another staff member no matter if you send it in a public channel, internal channel, or a private message.
• I haven't had a reason to doubt Salad's abilities as a Council member, and it is also very important to remember that he was elected by the community to his position.
• You pointing fingers at Liloz and others does not help your case. You should reflect on your own actions instead of justifying them by arguing that others did something "worse".

All of these concerns are valid and alright to bring up, but your way of bringing them up have been disrespectful, unproductive, and highly demotivating to a lot of staff members. No one here is doing anything with malicious intent; we are all just trying our best. You have had a very hard time accepting that we have to move on; we cannot keep dwelling on months-old issues that have already been evaluated and reflected upon.

 

I have tried to be very objective here, but I have to say that I am very disappointed that you used the argument that you are no longer harassing another staff member as a way to justify your continued harassment of Salad (as can be seen in the last message in your recent DMs). And you even seemed proud of it when we talked and tried to use it as some gotcha-moment.

 

I don't expect this to change how your view these situations since we have already had many discussions of this nature. I am truly sad that we cannot see eye-to-eye since you have shown to be a strong and passionate manager.

[Adversary 96 / 2,197]

I feel the need to make a quick statement regarding an issue that was brought up.

Personally speaking, as someone who has dealt with suicide in multiple fronts, I do think that the part concerning Liloz's analogy (suicide "joke") the context does matter. Yes, the words were very crude and similar language should be refrained from going forward (especially from higher-ups). However, I do think that going and saying Liloz's intentions were to make a joke on suicide is a bit slanderous and inaccurate and I cannot say that I agree even slightly with the way that it is being used here as a weapon.

Liloz should not speak so carelessly and should look into a more user-friendly way of speaking at times, and he definitely did say a few uncalled for things aside from that as well, but again, I just do not think this is the place to address it or at the very least it should be done in a less slanderous manner.

I am not directly involved but I find this point extremely hard to agree with and felt that it should be mentioned, that is all I had to say.

[olliemas 53 / 1,161]

Right, I'm a new boy in this wacky wonderful GFL world but I'd like to say some things:

 

Duck is a good SM, I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who actually plays rot/ modded regularly that would disagree with this statement. Now I haven't played a ton of rot but everytime I've gone on I have talked about the community there, how non toxic and fun it is to play on that server; I believe Duck to be a primary reason why this is the case. Duck has put countless hours into the reworking/ evolving the server and, whilst player numbers have dwindled for now, demoting him like this over something that seems to be entirely personal seems very unfair to me. At the bare minimum I believe you should ask the other rot/modded staff about his performance as SM/ their opinions on the situation.

 

@Gumb4ll'98 Everything that you've written about seems more like you disagreeing with how to apply the rules but there is no glaring evidence here of any wrongdoing. When presented with a situation in which you are against one of his staff Duck has clearly evaluated it and decided that it was within the rules. If you disagree with the way a rule is applied or think it needs changing suggest that. On Vanilla, for example, we specifically have a rule where you cannot claim a T weapon very early in the round, Duck has clearly decided that this falls under the logic rule anyway.

 

Anyway, overall I just wanted to put some support out for Duck, whilst I don't know the full scope of this situation yet and I barely know Duck this feels like a demotion after no real wrongdoing that should end in a demotion. Duck is not a perfect person as none of us are. Maybe he could talk a little differently when things are brought up and maybe people could respond a little differently. We're all human beings but this demotion to me just feels entirely disrespectful and out of the blue for someone who does a good job and works hard.

 

As I said I don't know the full details and I have no reason to have any more allegiance to either 'side', this just feels unjust to me on the basis of the info we have so far.

 

Edit: wrote this before Nick's response lemme read

Edit: I see how Duck's DMs can come across but I feel there's more to this situation. Duck seems to have reacted poorly to a situation that has been developed over a very prolonged period of time. Whilst I agree that the tone of the DMs that I can see is wrong and unnescessary, both sides seem to be completely misunderstanding each other. Everyone needs to take a step back and consider the other side's POV, Duck after working incredibly hard on  something that he is passionate about gets wind that someone who dislikes him and who he dislikes might be part of the reason he gets demoted. Duck now definitely should not react as he did but he gets caught up in his emotions because he's about to lose something for which he cares deeply. This just strikes me as a massive build up of miscommunication over time that has exploded in a way that it shouldn't have so let's revert to the basic questions: Is Duck a great SM? Yes. Does he have a tone problem? Yes. Has he worked incredibly hard to remove toxicity from rot? Also yes, Duck has combatted toxicity more than anyone I've seen in this community. I guess it's about weighing this and seeing which side of the line he'd end up on. Not consulting other rot staff though seems like not the right move to me personally, remaining in an echo chamber of people who have a bad view of someone can often drastically warp your perception of them. Not saying that's definitely the case here, just that it might be useful to gather the positives with the bad.

 

@Nick

• You pointing fingers at Liloz and others does not help your case. You should reflect on your own actions instead of justifying them by arguing that others did something "worse".

I think you're misunderstanding the reasoning here, Duck has pointed out others because he feels he's being held to a much higher standard as they're getting away with 'worse'. The inconsistency is the problem, Liloz joking about suicide isn't acceptable, Jinzu being racist transphobic etc. (if true) is also completely unacceptable. Duck is a human being who can see all these people getting away with stuff that he feels should be punishable whilst he pays the iron price.

 

No matter the outcome of all this everyone should try to take a step back and realise that we're all trying our best. Be nice in how you deal with each other and try to think why someone would act the way they've acted or we never come to a solution.

 

After reading more responses I'm clearly unqualified to comment further, just think it's important to cover both sides at least somewhat.

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by olliemas
grammar

[Gumb4ll'98 11 / 513]

Just now, olliemas said:

@Gumb4ll'98 Everything that you've written about seems more like you disagreeing with how to apply the rules but there is no glaring evidence here of any wrongdoing. When presented with a situation in which you are against one of his staff Duck has clearly evaluated it and decided that it was within the rules. If you disagree with the way a rule is applied or think it needs changing suggest that. On Vanilla, for example, we specifically have a rule where you cannot claim a T weapon very early in the round, Duck has clearly decided that this falls under the logic rule anyway.

 

 

 

I literally stated after the fact of detailing that whole situtation that another server manager had to come in and handle the situation because Duck didn't handle it correctly, thats the whole point of this argument, that Duck isn't capable of handling things correctly.

Also the fact that you disagree with me even though i have irrefutable proof that what he did was wrong, but then you're just not going to question Ducks one screenshot of Jinzu allegedly breaking the rules. Seems kind of silly to me
 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by Gumb4ll'98
Spoilers

[Rhysin_ 540 / 13,182]

1 hour ago, Duck. said:

Jinzu is someone who has been openly racist on the server he manages (saying the N word on the server and then blaming it on being drunk), transphobic, breaks his own rules on the server and should've been demoted when all of the evidence was bought against him. All of this was bought to Council with the hope that it'd do something as it was bringing down a lot of his staff, and what did Council decide was the best punishment for all of this? A 14 day stand down. Where he just left to do some business anyway. A nothing punishment, because as Pyros said "He wasn't given a warning to correct his behaviour". I'm sorry, a Server Manager needs to be warned not to be racist, transphobic and not to break the rules on their own server? This is where my lack of faith in Council was starting to go down.

While I agree that Jinzu wasn't a good choice for Server Manager (though for different reasons as I haven't seen proof of these), this isn't a council thing, and everyone deserves a fair warning, which I assume you got as well. (I say "wasn't" because I haven't interacted with Jinzu in a while, so I do not know how his behavior has changed. But seeing as there hasn't been more drama, I'm assuming it's gotten better.) 
 

 

1 hour ago, Duck. said:

The dissolution of the Moderation Team.

 

This was a situation that was just an entire shitshow from the start. For starters, none of the mod team knew this was coming, it came out of nowhere after we had repeatedly asked for a meeting to discuss the mod team. Council themselves decided to dissolve the team while ignoring the want for a meeting and then act surprised when there was backlash. I was treated like an absolute cunt during this whole thing by Salad, Infra and Liloz as they put it down to me being mad I was demoted, when that wasn't it at all. I was mad at the lack of communication the Council had said they wanted. When I said this, I was "omegalul'd" to death and told "Communication was the announcement", "Communication isn't needed", "You should've seen this coming", "You're just mad you were demoted". When my entire point was that things should've been communicated to us beforehand rather than surprising us with this. Complete lack of Council was had then and I said things in the Main Discord about it, which fair enough, I should've kept everything to Internal, but when I'm being treated like a cunt in there because I wanted communication, what am I meant to do?

I agree, this should've been handled better, and the council has acknowledged that too. I did not see nor have I seen any proof of the "omegalul"'ing to death and other stuff, so I will not address it.

 

 

1 hour ago, Duck. said:

https://imgur.com/a/kiWvKv6.    

This was what I was most curious about.
The "Private Matters" rule is overruled when toxicity comes into play. In these screenshots you actively blamed Salad for everything, said he was always the one making stupid decisions, and were overall instigative. I get you were trying to say your concerns, however you were not civil in that discussion at all, so I see why these screenshots were made to be the final straw.

 

1 hour ago, Duck. said:

Council rework is failing, they're putting too much trust on certain members

As said earlier by others, certain members are being trusted because they do a lot for the community.

 

 

51 minutes ago, Gumb4ll'98 said:

I also made an abuse report on you about your discord moderating behaviour and i didn't get any response from you so i don't think you actually saw that.

Server Admins aren't able to see abuse reports, not even ones on themselves, so it'd make sense that Server Managers aren't supposed to comment on abuse reports towards them.

 

31 minutes ago, olliemas said:

demoting him like this over something that seems to be enttirely personal seems very unfair to me

I'm not going to touch other points, cause I feel that more qualified people have already talked about them, however I will make this final statement

I think Duck was a good SM when it came solely to running the server, even with BraeLyn being inactive for a bit. He was hard-working and dedicated to the server. However, his general behavior continued to be childish, rather instigative, and passive-aggressive despite many mods and higher-ups telling him to stop, I've had to step in on situations he caused too. I'm assuming his behavior over the past month+ was taken into account when his demotion was decided, and it was definitely not solely based on the Salad DMs.

I will say that many times, certain higher ups did not treat him with respect, and many times did not help with what they said.

I will also say, thank you, Duck, for taking this to a thread as suggested by Nick and stopping on the GMod discord, much appreciated. I'd also like to say thank you for keeping yourself, relatively, civil in this thread. It makes it more likely to be taken seriously than if you just rage posted, so thank you for keeping yourself relatively composed.

[Infra 714 / 12,401]

Here we go. Even busting out the coloured text for this.

 

2 hours ago, Duck. said:

Salad (Again) decided to do whatever he wanted and promoted his friend, JG, into the Social Media Team. This may not seem like a bad thing, but he never applied, he was just given the role. The reasoning for this is that he helped set up the Twitch, but an app should've been made and I bet it would've been accepted anyway, but Salad felt the need to skip this

 

Hi, Social Media Team Leader here. This was not solely a @Salad decision. Allow me clear this up completely. I hesitated clearing this up even in the Teams discord where you had your unnecessary meltdown in front of everyone about it, because I decided I would not act like you and cause a scene - rather, deal with what had happened in a much nicer manner. Since you want to do things like this, I'm more than happy to comply.

 

JGuary helped us for about 7 hours straight with setting up that event stream on such short notice, keep in mind he wasn't even staff. Considering he has expressed interest for ages, right from when we were first writing the proposal for the team, along with the dedication shown in this - Salad and I decided an application would just be wasting time, especially considering the team is brand new and still in its formation stages, where promoting people without apps is not an uncommon thing to do. We had everyone except that one team member in a voice chat at the time, and yes, we made a mistake not consulting them. I'll fully admit it in public here, I messed up with that. While said team member has made it clear that it was just a concern and they're not against the decision, we've apologized profusely for it - it was not our intention to exclude them, we made a MISTAKE.

 

People make mistakes, but what did you think about said mistake? Oh, perfect opportunity to start a fight and attempt shitting on Council! After all, everything is their fault! So yeah, fuck @Salad - lets start a fight in front of every single team member and blow shit out of proportion!

 

In all seriousness, your behaviour and the mess you started in that discussion while I was asleep was astounding. You turned a valid concern that could've been dealt with an apology and a resolution into a full-fledged issue by accusing us of some type of high-profile bias and corruption. At that point, there is nothing anyone can do to save such a situation, even if it could've initially been dealt with much less drama. None of what you did there was necessary at all, you didn't even think to wait for an answer from me before jumping to the extreme conclusion you came to. The fact that you even try to justify your behaviour in this is insane, are you really that aloof to your own actions? Let me ask you a very simple question: how would you have felt if I had come to your admin chat to shit on a mistake you made and blow it out of proportion in front of everyone?

 

How is it so hard to comprehend that, as a member of staff, your conduct in public and around fellow staff is incredibly important? Obviously, I had to raise my concerns internally on how you were staff at all with such terrible conduct, it was that bad.

 

2 hours ago, Duck. said:

Yes, I've been a cunt, but it's mostly been contained to private Discords where I assumed things would be kept private. But it seems like it never is.

 

1. Yes, you absolutely have been.
2. No, it absolutely hasn't been contained to private Discords.
3. Yeah, it absolutely never is kept private because you constantly go out and make subtle references/jabs to them.

 

Take a step back, and understand the fact that how you act affects everyone around you. You may have been acting on your heavy hatred of Salad and other council members, but in the process, you were being a giant asshole and a burden to everyone else - from all the team members to TLs like myself. You aren't immune as Server Manager to behave like you are above all, and that everyone else around you are useless/terrible people. Have some respect for the people around you, it goes a long way, doesn't matter if its towards a regular player or a Director. You may have been a great SM for your server, but this means nothing if you can't respect others around you. This has been communicated several times to you, but you clearly just don't care.

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by Infra

[L0st 106 / 2,791]

43 minutes ago, Gumb4ll'98 said:

I literally stated after the fact of detailing that whole situtation that another server manager had to come in and handle the situation because Duck didn't handle it correctly, thats the whole point of this argument, that Duck isn't capable of handling things correctly.

Also the fact that you disagree with me even though i have irrefutable proof that what he did was wrong, but then you're just not going to question Ducks one screenshot of Jinzu allegedly breaking the rules. Seems kind of silly to me
 

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Alright I'll put my 2 cents into this comment, to say that "Duck isn't capable of handling things correctly." is just straight up ignorant, I'm not speaking for the whole discord dm's and other stuff, because I don't have the context, nor do I really want to comment on it, I'm talking mainly about his management on Rotation, now "Modded" TTT server. Duck is the coder SM or basically the developer SM, while Brae is the social SM for the server, and if I'm not mistaken, Duck's main role on rotation is to handle server coding, while he can help on the forums side of things, that's mostly to the social SM to do (Feel free to correct me if I am wrong here). 

 

Even with Brae's inactivity due to work and IRL stuff, Duck managed the server fine, he also handled some of the forums side of things, It was not perfect, but it was good enough. I am honestly happy he became SM, he did a lot for the server, and for us the staff team, although he had an attitude I could tell that he loved the server, and that he wanted to keep the server alive as long as possible, and to keep it entertaining for the people playing on the server by adding new content like the special rounds, Christmas stuff, and etc. 

 

As for the whole MOTD thing, that is a wound that we will not open up again, since the MOTD has been in question a lot and has been brought up a lot during Duck's time as SM, all I can say is that not everything can be included and or explained in the MOTD, just like with the situation you had in which you submitted a report, it's hard to think about those types of situations happening often to actually put them in the MOTD or hard to think about them happening at all to be perfectly honest. Which is why grey areas in the MOTD exist.

 

It's also kind of silly to think that just because the other SM closed your Admin abuse report, means that duck can't handle things properly/correctly, SM's interact with each other, and I think that they talked about your abuse report (I don't know for sure so take this comment with a grain of salt), before brae closed it. Honestly if another SM closes your report is the only argument you have in terms of Duck not handling things correctly, then I'm sorry but I just can't believe you. 

 

This is just my opinion, and if you disagree with me, that's fine, just putting my 2 cents out there.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Daddy Issues
Fixed because grammar is suck

[Gumb4ll'98 11 / 513]

Just now, Daddy Issues said:

Alright I'll put my 2 cents into this comment, to say that "Duck isn't capable of handling things correctly." is just straight up ignorant, I'm not speaking for the whole discord dm's and other stuff, because I don't have the context, nor do I really want to comment on it, I'm talking mainly about his management on Rotation, now "Modded" TTT server. Duck is the coder SM or basically the developer SM, while Brae is the social SM for the server, and if I'm not mistaken, Duck's main role on rotation is to handle server coding, while he can help on the forums side of things, that's mostly to the social SM to do (Feel free to correct me if I am wrong here).

I shouldn't have worded it like a blanket statement, i meant in the context of all the interactions and problems i have had and discussed with him soo far.

 

Just now, Daddy Issues said:

As for the whole MOTD thing, that is a wound that we will not open up again, since the MOTD has been in question a lot and has been brought up a lot during Duck's time as SM, all I can say is that not everything can be included and or explained in the MOTD, just like with the situation you had in which you submitted a report, it's hard to think about those types of situations happening often to actually put them in the MOTD or hard to think about them happening at all to be perfectly honest. Which is why grey areas in the MOTD exist.

 

It's also kind of silly to think that just because the other SM closed your Admin abuse report, means that duck can't handle things properly/correctly, SM's interact with each other, and think that they talked about your abuse report (I don't know for sure so take this comment with a grain of salt), before brae closed it. Honestly if another SM closes your report is the only argument you have in terms of Duck not handling things correctly, then I'm sorry but I just can't believe you.

I brought up the MOTD because it contains the rules and how you should follow them. And you are right that not everything can be explained in the MOTD, which is why i explained even further in my abuse report about the situation i had a problem with and why I even made the abuse report in the first place, because the admin i made an abuse report on hadn't/didn't realize this. Even before i made the abuse report on the admin in question, i explained to them of how it was wrong in the first place but he was still not accepting any criticism so i just took it to the forums.

i didn't realize until a good while later that Braelyn handled the situation without my knowing a full three days later that i made the abuse report on the Admin in question who then got demoted to Trial Admin.

Ducks response to that abuse report and how it was handled after the fact clearly conflicts with one another, and that's why i think like that towards him, and which is ultimately the start of me thinking negatively of Duck in the way he handles things.

[L0st 106 / 2,791]

20 minutes ago, Gumb4ll'98 said:

I shouldn't have worded it like a blanket statement, i meant in the context of all the interactions and problems i have had and discussed with him soo far.

Yeah, because your statement sounded like Duck couldn't do anything right, which is where I kinda got annoyed at. But that's totally fair, whats between you two is between you two I'm not going to comment further on that. 

 

20 minutes ago, Gumb4ll'98 said:

I brought up the MOTD because it contains the rules and how you should follow them. And you are right that not everything can be explained in the MOTD, which is why i explained even further in my abuse report about the situation i had a problem with and why I even made the abuse report in the first place, because the admin i made an abuse report on hadn't/didn't realize this. Even before i made the abuse report on the admin in question, i explained to them of how it was wrong in the first place but he was still not accepting any criticism so i just took it to the forums.

i didn't realize until a good while later that Braelyn handled the situation without my knowing a full three days later that i made the abuse report on the Admin in question who then got demoted to Trial Admin.

Ducks response to that abuse report and how it was handled after the fact clearly conflicts with one another, and that's why i think like that towards him, and which is ultimately the start of me thinking negatively of Duck in the way he handles things.

Still it's hard to punish someone for a rule that isn't there, while you did explain in the abuse report what the admin did wrong, in my opinion, an abuse report should've ever been made over such a thing, when you could've just talked to the SM's and state your concern, and let the SM's decide what they needed to do, in terms of that rule being added or not to the MOTD, and the punishment to the admin in question. 

 

With that being said, thank you for your reply, cleared the air on most of what I wrote in my response to you, have a great day/night!

Edited December 28, 2020 by Daddy Issues
Grammar again

[Duck. 489 / 0]

I'm not ignoring the responses, but I want to respond to everything and I'm at work right now, so I'll wait until I'm home to properly respond.

[Gumb4ll'98 11 / 513]

Just now, Daddy Issues said:

Still it's hard to punish someone for a rule that isn't there, while you did explain in the abuse report what the admin did wrong, in my opinion, an abuse report should've never been made over such a thing, when you could've just talked to the SM's and state your concern, and let the SM's decide what they needed to do, in terms of that rule being added or not to the MOTD, and the punishment to the admin in question.

I feel like part of the reason for the punishment was how the admin handled himself when i confronted him about this issue, which i already stated in my abuse report. Abuse reports are there when admins breaks rules and this is no exception, i don't need to talk to the SM about this. If i did talk to Duck about it, he would've shrugged it off just like he did in the abuse report itself. I wouldn't have made the abuse report if the admin in question responded with an open mind and understood my point that i was trying to get across, but i already explained that he didn't take any criticism and also shrugged it off in a rude manner.

[TheJitFace 699 / 18,162]

Real quick, doubt anyone would actually do this, but don't lock this thread please. 

 

This is a good discussion and a solution could be found here. 

[Lunar Blade 178 / 3,309]

51 minutes ago, BlazingArson said:

I think Duck was a good SM when it came solely to running the server, even with BraeLyn being inactive for a bit. He was hard-working and dedicated to the server. However, his general behavior continued to be childish, rather instigative, and passive-aggressive despite many mods and higher-ups telling him to stop, I've had to step in on situations he caused too. I'm assuming his behavior over the past month+ was taken into account when his demotion was decided, and it was definitely not solely based on the Salad DMs.

 

34 minutes ago, Daddy Issues said:

Alright I'll put my 2 cents into this comment, to say that "Duck isn't capable of handling things correctly." is just straight up ignorant, I'm not speaking for the whole discord dm's and other stuff, because I don't have the context, nor do I really want to comment on it, I'm talking mainly about his management on Rotation, now "Modded" TTT server. Duck is the coder SM or basically the developer SM, while Brae is the social SM for the server, and if I'm not mistaken, Duck's main role on rotation is to handle server coding, while he can help on the forums side of things, that's mostly to the social SM to do (Feel free to correct me if I am wrong here). 

 

 

I agree with Arson here pretty much. From a technical point of view, Ducks management of the server has been great. However, Daddy... while it's technically true that we have a "Developer" SM and a "HR" SM so to speak, that doesn't mean they are really any different positions. Just because Duck has been great at handling the server doesn't excuse his poor people skills. You are still the Server Manager. You are a leader to the people. And if you are seen being toxic relatively often... that reflects poorly on your leadership. 
 

Spoiler

Earlier this month, on one of my random check ins in discord, I commented on how Rot isn't as active as it used to be. Duck seemed to have taken that as a personal insult to his management, got defensive, and replied with hostility. Now, I try to be understanding, and laughed it off. Joked about it later on during my discussion with Adversary. However it was clear to a few people that were there that Ducks wording sounded like a personal attack rather then... discussing his view on why the servers population has dropped. Even a few weeks ago, it was clear that Duck was stressed out about things, likely related to people. And if you let those things get to you, your going to eventually break. 

 

And to me, Duck, You've broken at this point. Obviously, I haven't been around as much lately. I can't say whether your accusations are right or wrong. But what I can say is that if they are right, you've been going about everything in the wrong way. If there is someone doing something they shouldn't, you don't confront them directly about it. You bring it up to a higher up. Preferably, with evidence. While yes, you have a couple of pictures of Jinzu... the first one seemed like a joke to me. A joke in poor taste, but nothing I'd be overly concerned about, other then telling them sternly to stop. As for the breaking his own rules... I guess I don't know if the rules have changed or not, but that screenshot shows me nothing. The line about him calling a KOS? I mean yeah, that's kind of ghosting I guess. Something that probably shouldn't have been said. But also something that a simple warning should be enough for. Considering you only one have small piece of evidence for each situation, I can tell you that's not really enough to do anything. 

 

As far as Salad goes... quite simply, you just needed to shut up. Again, if you don't like what Salad was doing? Confronting them directly brings nothing but problems, as clearly seen at this point. Telling someone directly that you don't like them, think they're abusing, and ignoring most of what they say in response... that's nothing but asking for trouble. 

 

7 minutes ago, Gumb4ll'98 said:

I feel like part of the reason for the punishment was how the admin handled himself when i confronted him about this issue, which i already stated in my abuse report. Abuse reports are there when admins breaks rules and this is no exception, i don't need to talk to the SM about this. If i did talk to Duck about it, he would've shrugged it off just like he did in the abuse report itself. I wouldn't have made the abuse report if the admin in question responded with an open mind and understood my point that i was trying to get across, but i already explained that he didn't take any criticism and also shrugged it off in a rude manner.

 

So, if I understand what you're saying, you made the abuse report more so in how the admin responded to your criticism, rather then the "rule" itself? My opinion on the rule itself may differ, but the fact of the matter is that it was ruled to fall under logic. You DID state that you didn't like his response to the situation... however the report itself looks to be aimed much more at the situation itself rather then his response. Since I can't click on a screenshot to see the videos of the discussion afterwards, I can't see what you mean there... but also if it was the next map and you were still bringing up an old, already resolved issue I can see how they might get a bit annoyed at what could easily be viewed as backseat moderating. 

Basically, in this specific situation, I don't really see much of anything I don't agree with. And just to adress your loophole of a T dropping an item... If you deliberately are giving a T weapon to an Inno, that's against the rules. If you are dropping a T weapon, hoping no one sees you, and an inno picks it up and claims it all within the first 20 seconds of a round? I suppose it could happen, yes. However... it's just far too specific of a situation. It's the only thing that could cause the kill to have been bad. One single instance. And it doesn't happen often. Just because you've done it successfully a few times doesn't mean much. If you truly have a problem with the rule itself, you'd just start doing that strategy to get Inno's killed until it's a problem and gets changed. Yes, I truly believe that's the best way to highlight a flaw. Abuse it until it gets addressed. You already tried discussing it, so it's the logical next step. So to recap, I think the situation was handled fine for what it was, and you possibly were bringing up issues that were already resolved, and got an annoyed response. 

[Gumb4ll'98 11 / 513]

Was Duck only able to access TTT-MC-Staff when they became discord mod? So I guess they spent their time as discord mod trying to grab "Gotcha" content for people he disliked. So much for keeping private matters private.

[Duck. 489 / 0]

I wasn't able to read any staff chats as mod other than my own