Debates

[im not inactive you are 888 / 16,340]

Debates about anything. Tag whoever you're debating and do it here instead of in shoutbox because everyone hates that 10 second delay.

 

@Jerry Hat Trick @rapperdan @Winter lmao lets debate the operator rank 

Edited April 9, 2018 by TheSadBandit

[im not inactive you are 888 / 16,340]

its retarded in my opinion just because they handle the comms, at least in gmod. As admin I can ban 3 people, gag 4 and kick 2 all in under a minute, ULX just makes it that easy. I've handled 20+ reports at once, takes me about 5 minutes to go through them and see which ones are fake and which ones are not, but it's doable, and that's with 1 admins' power. Everytime I get on, and sometimes not, but there's always some staff one, let it be T admin or admin or higher, there's someone on handling reports. I see it as retarded to have a rank that handles coms when that's just doing "!gag thesad" in chat

[rapperdan 2,323 / 0]

so you know anyone on that server who everyone feels is cancer or what ever, and would never be looked at as an option at all?

what if they have the ability to handle things in a proper way but they simply don't because more then a few people already have a mind set on this person is bad I shall treat him bad, now picture this what if that "bad person" could be converted into a helpful productive part of that server with little to no risk at all, now ik you admins really need the power to perma ban someone like yesterday but who is power hungry the operator who would never have a shot at it ever or the goody mc two shoes slipping into the dm's like a pretty boi slipping into some girls pants who is the bad one? who is the one who has the stronger need or desire to have a form of power the one who will not conflict with anyone or the person who does conflict with others offering very good info but sadly is viewed in a bad way, by most of the team that person who could help would never start off as an admin because it would be viewed as too risky.

[im not inactive you are 888 / 16,340]

In TTT we have, or atleast had !block and !selfgag so technically even though there's no one there to gag them or such, they can still gag the people from player-end, so really it's a no point thing.

[rapperdan 2,323 / 0]

1 minute ago, TheSadBandit said:

In TTT we have, or atleast had !block and !selfgag so technically even though there's no one there to gag them or such, they can still gag the people from player-end, so really it's a no point thing.

you could always to that in csgo aswell, but if a tree falls and no one is around does it make a sound? 

 

the answer is of course it does people can self mute self gag but it's still there is it not?

 

besides I'm pretty sure there just might be some really aids work around to that self gag or self mute feature, you guys have a cache or something? or can I just endless retry in console and make people have to keep muting or gagging me?

[annoying furry 6,300 / 63,975]

As a manager, I like having the option to try someone as an operator rather than giving them full access from the beginning. It limits the amount of damage that a potentially abusive member of staff could do before being dealt with.

[im not inactive you are 888 / 16,340]

2 minutes ago, rapperdan said:

you could always to that in csgo aswell, but if a tree falls and no one is around does it make a sound? 

 

the answer is of course it does people can self mute self gag but it's still there is it not?

 

besides I'm pretty sure there just might be some really aids work around to that self gag or self mute feature, you guys have a cache or something? or can I just endless retry in console and make people have to keep muting or gagging me?

There is no pmute, so if I as admin were to mute someone and they relog I would have to mute them again. Which is why I see operator as useless if they can't ban. I'll put an example, yesterday we had this kid, I banned him for 2 days for consistently leaving and re-joining to be unmuted. I had to ban him for him to stop, if the Operator rank is added, and there is no pmute, how are they going to stop this kid from spamming? They're going to have to get a higher-up, which is why I see it as useless to have Operator as a rank. In the end there's going to need to be a higher up to contain the situation, and there's no need to have a rank that can't contain situations like this. It's why I think T admin is ok to be the lowest rank, because even though they have banning abilities, the only way you can get admin is if the server manager of the said server adds you, and at least in TTT it's difficult af to get admin. And if you were to have an abusing t admin, the worst they could do is ban people for one week. 

[im not inactive you are 888 / 16,340]

4 minutes ago, Xy_ said:

As a manager, I like having the option to try someone as an operator rather than giving them full access from the beginning. It limits the amount of damage that a potentially abusive member of staff could do before being dealt with.

In my opinion it just lowers your standards of who you want on your staff team if you don't trust the person to give them such powers and think they are going to abuse.

[im not inactive you are 888 / 16,340]

1 minute ago, Jerry Hat Trick said:

This is a "trial admin" position, at least in TTT.

I agree, you want to see how people relate with the server, before giving them full access.

 

T admin can ban though, the max they can do is a week, opposed to admins who have the ability to perma ban.

[annoying furry 6,300 / 63,975]

4 minutes ago, Jerry Hat Trick said:

This is a "trial admin" position, at least in TTT.

I agree, you want to see how people relate with the server, before giving them full access.

 

Two names for the same thing.

 

EDIT: If this is relating to TTT rather than all of GMOD, it is absolutely unnecessary to add this rank.

 

3 minutes ago, TheSadBandit said:

In my opinion it just lowers your standards of who you want on your staff team if you don't trust the person to give them such powers and think they are going to abuse.

I don't give people who I think are likely to abuse a rank, It's a precaution. Just curious, what's your opinion on trialadmin?

[annoying furry 6,300 / 63,975]

1 minute ago, Jerry Hat Trick said:

Perhaps.

Are you suggesting an "Operator" rank for Gmod TTT?

IMO,  is completely unnecessary, and redundant.

 

Nope, there's trial admin, thus redundant. Sad Bandit stated earlier in the post that this post is about all of gmod.

[rapperdan 2,323 / 0]

12 minutes ago, TheSadBandit said:

There is no pmute, so if I as admin were to mute someone and they relog I would have to mute them again. Which is why I see operator as useless if they can't ban. I'll put an example, yesterday we had this kid, I banned him for 2 days for consistently leaving and re-joining to be unmuted. I had to ban him for him to stop, if the Operator rank is added, and there is no pmute, how are they going to stop this kid from spamming? They're going to have to get a higher-up, which is why I see it as useless to have Operator as a rank. In the end there's going to need to be a higher up to contain the situation, and there's no need to have a rank that can't contain situations like this. It's why I think T admin is ok to be the lowest rank, because even though they have banning abilities, the only way you can get admin is if the server manager of the said server adds you, and at least in TTT it's difficult af to get admin. And if you were to have an abusing t admin, the worst they could do is ban people for one week. 

so uhh @Xy_ do you have any issues with breach, when it comes to mutes and gags? if not does ttt hook up with source bans in the comms area? if not you might want to add the comms to source bans so when they join that mute and or gag persists. drops mic walks away give me debate winner of the month ty bois I rest my case.

[annoying furry 6,300 / 63,975]

1 minute ago, Jerry Hat Trick said:

Well, why not have consistency across the board?

If You're going to have Operators, have them on all servers.

If you're going to have trial admins, same.

Why does eveything need to be so damned complicated?

Managers are generally allowed to choose how they run their servers.

 

1 minute ago, rapperdan said:

so uhh @Xy_ do you have any issues with breach, when it comes to mutes and gags? if not does ttt hook up with source bans in the comms area? if not you might want to add the comms to source bans so when they join that mute and or gag persists. drops mic walks away give me debate winner of the month ty bois I rest my case.

If @MilkMan wants to.

[Cassie 1,226 / 23,065]

Stealing this from winter but anyways on certain servers, operator is a way for people who have less time/can't take the responsibility on of full admin to moderate a server and eventually if they are ready they can become a full admin.

[rapperdan 2,323 / 0]

5 minutes ago, Duc2000 said:

Stealing this from winter but anyways on certain servers, operator is a way for people who have less time/can't take the responsibility on of full admin to moderate a server and eventually if they are ready they can become a full admin.

ya it can mean the world for many slowly working there way in and adapting to be able to admin at some point not everyone just goes in and can admin without being worked in too it @Winter tell me how you needed to be worked in @Winter is the prime example of how some times slowly working people into something yields very promising results.

Edited April 9, 2018 by rapperdan

[Cassie 1,226 / 23,065]

1 minute ago, Jerry Hat Trick said:

Understandable, but there needs to be some consistency.

In my opinion, trial admin is not needed but is a traditional thing while operator is a newer thing. Older managers may not want operator in their server just because they are so used to Trial Admin. Maybe eventually we all will use operator.

[im not inactive you are 888 / 16,340]

11 minutes ago, Xy_ said:

Two names for the same thing.

 

EDIT: If this is relating to TTT rather than all of GMOD, it is absolutely unnecessary to add this rank.

 

I don't give people who I think are likely to abuse a rank, It's a precaution. Just curious, what's your opinion on trialadmin?

The way I see milk handle trial admin is great, same as vio. They don't add just anyone and the people they've added none have abused. Whenever t admins are in the wrong its the job of us higher ups to set them right, but with the amount of activity gmod has and the number of staff, everyone helps out. I don't see there a need for TTT to have an operator rank since the precautions that are taken for someone to be t admin in ttt are so high, for example, 50 hours on the server is the minimum, milkman doesnt really accept people who have like anything less than 100 though, and if he does it has to be for a special reason. Other than that, i havent seen a trial admin fuck up bad yet (in exception to me and accidental bans as t admin), any time that I was off on something I always had a higher up like @BlakeS or @WigglesWorth correcting my wrongs. I see trial admin as the lowest of the low, but I also see it as the stepping stone for admin. 

 

4 minutes ago, Duc2000 said:

Stealing this from winter but anyways on certain servers, operator is a way for people who have less time/can't take the responsibility on of full admin to moderate a server and eventually if they are ready they can become a full admin.

I see that happening, but then again theres a lot of t admins/admins in ttt who dont get on everyday, @Xy_ youre one, @Duc2000 youre another. Even with "inactive" admins the server still has a lot of staff on. (You technically just said operator is t admin btw)

[annoying furry 6,300 / 63,975]

7 minutes ago, Jerry Hat Trick said:

Oh, sorry. I thought this was GFL, not (insert Manager name here).

 

Operator is consistent with CSGO and CSS, while Trial Admin is exclusively used on a couple GMOD servers. Last time we tried enforcing consistency, it didn't work out very well.

[MilkMan 569 / 10,710]

28 minutes ago, Xy_ said:

As a manager, I like having the option to try someone as an operator rather than giving them full access from the beginning. It limits the amount of damage that a potentially abusive member of staff could do before being dealt with.

Wym? You got someone with promo powers?

[annoying furry 6,300 / 63,975]

3 minutes ago, MilkMan said:

Wym? You got someone with promo powers?

@Rose

 

Operator is the same as trial admin on breach btw, thus we have no trial admins.