bans Odd Bans

[Nick 1,249 / 17,857]

Hey, everyone. 

 

I'll be posting SourceBans entries here, that I believe should be one, or more, of the following:

• Documented properly.
• Lifted.
• Shortened.
• Otherwise revised.

 

I'll mostly be focused on permanent banned since I do not have the time nor tools to process all bans. I'll make a new post in this thread each time I do a sweep of GFL's bans.

 

Disclaimer:

This thread represents my opinions about GFL's bans. Therefore, this is just what I would ideally like to see discussed/done. When I sweep for bans, I just go down the normal ban list on SourceBans with no filters. 

 

I'll kick it off with the following:

 

(Action) Two "External" Bans - @Pyros  ✅
STEAM_0:0:430344375 & STEAM_0:0:23055993

 

Two people have been permanently banned from GFL for advertising hacks in another community. Personally, I do not believe that we should ban people for their external behavior unless they're actively trying to misrepresent GFL in any way. Therefore, I would like to see these bans lifted.

 

(Discussion) Permanently Banned for Advertising

STEAM_0:0:220929665

 

Sir Ramen was permanently banned for "advertising again". I assume the player in question advertised another community. This ban does comply with the server's rules, but I do find it weird that we're not using communication tools to handle this. (Maybe communication bans does not show up from GMOD?) However, I would like a discussion about this. Should GFL permanently ban people for advertising when it's their first time they're punished for it? 

 

(Discussion) (Action) TTT - @MilkMan

TTT has some odd rules and policies, and the server generates a lot of permanent bans. I suggest you read their admin guidelines. 

 

I've come up with a few suggestions a while back and I've added some new ones:

• Single actions should not result in an instant permanent ban (hacking is an exception). E.g. killing more than nine people results in a permanent ban.
• Streamline the conditions for a permanent ban. Right now it is: "If the player has TWO one week bans or a week AND a one month ban, the next ban is PERMANENT. ". I have a couple of sub-suggestions for this:
  • Bans should stack up instead. (e.g. 1 day -> 1 week -> 2 weeks -> 1 month, etc.)
  • Turn the conditions into an addition, (e.g. "if the player has been banned for more than a month in total". )
  • Let bans expire. (e.g. "Bans that are over a year old should not be considered.")
• This relates to: "Killing SIX people is 20160 Minutes or Killing NINE people or more is a PERMANENT ban.":
  • Specify RDM.
  • Name these. I've seen "mega mass rdm", "super mass rdm", and more. 
• I'm just confused about this: "Do NOT ban for DDOS threats (Gag or Mute them).". Advertising is instant permanent ban, but threatening to damage our servers..?
• Incorporate muting and gagging more into the rules.

 

I would love to start a discussion about these rules, and hear how GFL believes they should be stated and enforced. 

 

TTT bans, that does not comply with their current rules (some might just need proper documentation):

• https://sourcebans.gflclan.com/index.php?p=banlist&searchText= STEAM_0%3A0%3A70593497&Submit=Search - @-_Fx_-
• https://sourcebans.gflclan.com/index.php?p=banlist&searchText=STEAM_0%3A1%3A79593752&Submit=Search - @-_Fx_-
• https://sourcebans.gflclan.com/index.php?p=banlist&searchText= STEAM_0%3A0%3A47593548&Submit=Search - @-_Fx_-
• https://sourcebans.gflclan.com/index.php?p=banlist&searchText= STEAM_0%3A1%3A40639744&Submit=Search - @-_Fx_-
• https://sourcebans.gflclan.com/index.php?p=banlist&searchText= STEAM_0%3A1%3A60758339&Submit=Search - @MooTheCow
• https://sourcebans.gflclan.com/index.php?p=banlist&searchText= STEAM_0%3A1%3A117651812&Submit=Search - @motorsteak

 

Minor bans

• https://sourcebans.gflclan.com/index.php?p=banlist&searchText= STEAM_0%3A1%3A30124378&Submit=Search @Reeve - What ban is he evading?

 

That's all for now.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Nick

[-_Fx_- 666 / 11,186]

I'm not home yet so I can't unlift those bans @MilkMan. Now can we stop with this witchhunt thanks. 

[-_Fx_- 666 / 11,186]

That was back when me and violator pbanned for mass we no longer do that. And we pbanned people who just joined to mass so they were asshole who just joined the server to cause havoc so if you want those people back on the servers than be my fucking guest.

[-_Fx_- 666 / 11,186]

3 minutes ago, Jerry Hat Trick said:

"Streamline the conditions for a permanent ban. Right now it is: "If the player has TWO one week bans or a week AND a one month ban, the next ban is PERMANENT. ".

 

I personally have several bans. Does this make my next one permanent?

I don't think that's fair...

I'M guessing most of your bans are karma cause of killing rdmers. Cause you aren't an rdmer.

Edited May 19, 2018 by -_Fx_-

[Leks 2,304 / 26,632]

20 minutes ago, Nick said:

I'm just confused about this: "Do NOT ban for DDOS threats (Gag or Mute them).". Advertising is instant permanent ban, but threatening to damage our servers..?

I remember this was added quite long time ago, and it's a global rule that should be present in ALL our servers afaik.

 

^.~

[Nick 1,249 / 17,857]

18 minutes ago, Leks said:

I remember this was added quite long time ago, and it's a global rule that should be present in ALL our servers afaik.

 

^.~

The focus of my remark was rather that advertising warrants a permanent ban, which I don't believe it should. I just made the comparison to clarify my statement. (I assume you commented on the DDoS rule.)

[-_Fx_- 666 / 11,186]

2 minutes ago, Nick said:

The focus of my remark was rather that advertising warrants a permanent ban, which I don't believe it should. I just made the comparison to clarify my statement. (I assume you commented on the DDoS rule.)

Advertising other servers is a pban cause it's people actively trying to take members/users from our community. A pban is completely justified for people trying to take away our members. Regardless if our member still play on our servers or not they're still hurting our community And can hurt the active population on the server at the time. I mean it's one of the reasons jailbreak died. 

[Nick 1,249 / 17,857]

1 minute ago, -_Fx_- said:

Advertising other servers is a pban cause it's people actively trying to take members/users from our community. A pban is completely justified for people trying to take away our members. Regardless if our member still play on our servers or not they're still hurting our community And can hurt the active population on the server at the time. I mean it's one of the reasons jailbreak died. 

That's a very valid point. I do still find it harsh, and I believe our communication blocking tools could be used here. Would you personally permanently ban people for DDoS threats? Gagging could be an option. Otherwise, following the normal banning routine should also be alright, e.g. banning for a week or similar. Advertising is such a simple thing, and I don't like that it can warrant an instant permanent ban.

[Pyros 1,796 / 30,750]

Hey @Nick, thanks for showing interest, doubts and suggestions for one of my permanent bans. I did pban both users that were advertising a cheating website, that cac doesn't detect. After bringing that up with a director, @Darkling, I meantioned I would pban them to avoid them joining our servers and advertising there as well. I also banned them to avoid members or regular users trying those outs in single player and possibly getting a VAC ban.

 

I will be keeping my bans unless they come to appeal their ban(s), where I might shorten them.

Cheers!

[-_Fx_- 666 / 11,186]

6 minutes ago, Nick said:

That's a very valid point. I do still find it harsh, and I believe our communication blocking tools could be used here. Would you personally permanently ban people for DDoS threats? Gagging could be an option. Otherwise, following the normal banning routine should also be alright, e.g. banning for a week or similar. Advertising is such a simple thing, and I don't like that it can warrant an instant permanent ban.

I wouldn't pban for ddos threats cause usually it's just someone memeing and it rarely ever happens. Usually if someone wants to actually ddos the server they won't say anything about it and just do it.

[Reeve 226 / 4,600]

Hey! That ban was someone on an alt account that i banned for strafe hacks an hour prior.

 

1st Ban <--- This is the guy's original account that i banned for this exact config:

Quote

iWolf is turning with illegal yaw values (0.021999, 0.131999, 32, 1)
iWolf is turning with illegal yaw values (0.021999, 0.131999, 41, 1)
iWolf is turning with illegal yaw values (0.021999, 0.131999, 37, 1)

 

2nd Ban <--- I then banned him 56 minutes later on a different account with the SAME exact strafe config.

Quote

110 is turning with illegal yaw values (0.021999, 1.629999, 52, 1)

 

This man tried to evade his ban by playing on a secondary account. Banning his alt account so he can't dodge his punishment was the right thing to do.

[-_Fx_- 666 / 11,186]

21 minutes ago, Nick said:

That's a very valid point. I do still find it harsh, and I believe our communication blocking tools could be used here. Would you personally permanently ban people for DDoS threats? Gagging could be an option. Otherwise, following the normal banning routine should also be alright, e.g. banning for a week or similar. Advertising is such a simple thing, and I don't like that it can warrant an instant permanent ban.

And as for the advertising. How the last pban for advertising went they didn't go on a server to advertise they messaged people through steam so they couldn't be punished by gag or mute. Fortunately they messaged me and I told higher ups and they dealt with it accordingly. Though the person was recently unbanned for some reason.

Edited May 19, 2018 by -_Fx_-

[Nick 1,249 / 17,857]

15 minutes ago, Reeve said:

Hey! That ban was someone on an alt account that i banned for strafe hacks an hour prior.

 

1st Ban <--- This is the guy's original account that i banned for this exact config:

 

2nd Ban <--- I then banned him 56 minutes later on a different account with the SAME exact strafe config.

 

This man tried to evade his ban by playing on a secondary account. Banning his alt account so he can't dodge his punishment was the right thing to do.

Will you update the latter ban's reason with this? That would be nice. :D

 

14 minutes ago, -_Fx_- said:

And as for the advertising. How the last pban for advertising went they didn't go on a server to advertise they messaged people through steam so they couldn't be punished by gag or mute. Fortunately they messaged me and I told higher ups and they dealt with it accordingly. 

Hm, yea, that's clearly illicit intent. More documentation might be necessary in this scenario since this is clearly worse than "normal" advertising. Though, I still feel like they should've been banned for a shorter period of time prior to their permanent ban.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Nick

[-_Fx_- 666 / 11,186]

1 minute ago, Nick said:

Will you update the latter ban's reason with this? That would be nice. :D

 

Hm, yea, that's clear illicit intent. More documentation might be necessary in this scenario since this is clearly worse than "normal" advertising. Though, I still feel like they should've been banned for a shorter period of time prior to their permanent ban.

It was Glenn just ask him. Cause I deleted the screen shots a long time ago.

(Nvm I read the reply wrong)

Edited May 19, 2018 by -_Fx_-

[-_Fx_- 666 / 11,186]

7 minutes ago, Nick said:

Will you update the latter ban's reason with this? That would be nice. :D

 

Hm, yea, that's clearly illicit intent. More documentation might be necessary in this scenario since this is clearly worse than "normal" advertising. Though, I still feel like they should've been banned for a shorter period of time prior to their permanent ban.

 yeah if its just some idiot advertising a shitty community *cough* cg  *cough* the ban shouldn't be permanent but maybe a week. 

[Franchize 38 / 1,898]

I'm just chiming in here and Fx is right about the ddos thing. Some people that actually know the ddos game won't just flaunt it around. Thats like robbing a bank and saying "look at me i got the money come get me" its still illegal and you can do time for it. I personally feel that only gagging these people who threaten to ddos is just gives them access to personal players ip. Its not hard fish out ips from the voip function in gmod its self. So if someone pisses that person off and says "im gonna ddos you" gagging them isnt gonna cut them off from gathering any information about specific players. Yes they may target the main server but players shouldn't have to play in fear that their home internet is gonna go down and gfl did nothing about it. Also theres ddos software that gfl can implement to all of there servers to prevent ddos of the servers.. sorry for the typos and grammatical errors I'm typing this at work. But my main point is dont reward bad eggs by letting them continue to enjoy gfl servers

[Nick 1,249 / 17,857]

2 minutes ago, Franchize said:

I'm just chiming in here and Fx is right about the ddos thing. Some people that actually know the ddos game won't just flaunt it around. Thats like robbing a bank and saying "look at me i got the money come get me" its still illegal and you can do time for it. I personally feel that only gagging these people who threaten to ddos is just gives them access to personal players ip. Its not hard fish out ips from the voip function in gmod its self. So if someone pisses that person off and says "im gonna ddos you" gagging them isnt gonna cut them off from gathering any information about specific players. Yes they may target the main server but players shouldn't have to play in fear that their home internet is gonna go down and gfl did nothing about it. Also theres ddos software that gfl can implement to all of there servers to prevent ddos of the servers.. sorry for the typos and grammatical errors I'm typing this at work. But my main point is dont reward bad eggs by letting them continue to enjoy gfl servers

A little off-topic, but I agree with you. My question regarding it was only to compare the level of punishment.  

[Darkling 2,041 / 23,470]

56 minutes ago, Pyros said:

Hey @Nick, thanks for showing interest, doubts and suggestions for one of my permanent bans. I did pban both users that were advertising a cheating website, that cac doesn't detect. After bringing that up with a director, @Darkling, I meantioned I would pban them to avoid them joining our servers and advertising there as well. I also banned them to avoid members or regular users trying those outs in single player and possibly getting a VAC ban.

 

I will be keeping my bans unless they come to appeal their ban(s), where I might shorten them.

Cheers!

Aah. I assumed they were hacking and advertising hacks on our servers.

 

I would also like to say that I'm going to lock this thread. If there are any issues with bans then contact either the server manager/division leader/council. Unless you are the banned person. Then it will avoid the perception of people believing it's a witch hunt.

Any comments for discussion have already been tagged for relevant managers who can update this if they wish to add anything.