Ability to View Applications

[Amelie 434 / 7,376]

5 minutes ago, Pyros said:

This is a bit wrong, I can recall at least a few times we talked about it with Mod team. If I recall correctly, the apps were sitting in the void because the Mod TL at the time felt like there was no need for new mods.

Was this explained to the applicants? 7 months is never an acceptable period for discussion. “A few times”? Am I correct to believe that discussions were made due to general unease about the mod team, or issues? And that the decision was made not to do anything, and trust the TL?

 

 

 

Edit: Thank you to everyone for your thoughts and ideas. It means a lot to me that this is getting discussed.

Edited December 23, 2020 by Amelie
thanks

[Coomi 32 / 996]

why not just do this lol

59 minutes ago, P i n g u said:

 

 

 

I would have zero problems with the apps being made viewable after they were completed, but not while they are in progress. 

 

 

 

[harry 495 / 7,788]

2 minutes ago, Coomi said:

why not just do this lol

 

cus that completely defeats the purpose?

the point of them being transparent is to be able to see who is going to control ur experience in gfl and have an impact on you in the future..

[Alexis 578 / 12,012]

If Applications were allowed to be viewed by all even members, then I can see why some people believe that harassment and other issues against the applicant would occur. We've had issues where people wouldn't even speak to higher ups because they are afraid of them. So, what if they do allow this and someone gets bullied and made fun of, but they don't go to anyone because they are just afraid of them?

Of course, I don't really see any issues with allowing Members to view them. I just only have an issue with people not speaking up when they need to.

[Amelie 434 / 7,376]

3 minutes ago, Alexis said:

If Applications were allowed to be viewed by all even members, then I can see why some people believe that harassment and other issues against the applicant would occur. We've had issues where people wouldn't even speak to higher ups because they are afraid of them. So, what if they do allow this and someone gets bullied and made fun of, but they don't go to anyone because they are just afraid of them?

Of course, I don't really see any issues with allowing Members to view them. I just only have an issue with people not speaking up when they need to.

Harassment is a huge issue with gaming communities, and its terrible. However, admins must understand it comes with the role. But, it doesn’t mean admins should take it. If someone crosses the line, immediately reach out to the mod team or higher ups.

[Alexis 578 / 12,012]

1 minute ago, Amelie said:

Harassment is a huge issue with gaming communities, and its terrible. However, admins must understand it comes with the role. But, it doesn’t mean admins should take it. If someone crosses the line, immediately reach out to the mod team or higher ups.

Of course. We've even reached out to our members in the GMOD Rotation discord once for them to speak up about their issues regarding certain issues with players or the server to the Managers+. Communication is what is important and reaching out helps sedate these issues that occur when it comes to being an admin or not.

[Pyros 1,796 / 30,750]

29 minutes ago, Amelie said:

Was this explained to the applicants? 7 months is never an acceptable period for discussion. “A few times”? Am I correct to believe that discussions were made due to general unease about the mod team, or issues? And that the decision was made not to do anything, and trust the TL?

I don't really recall every detail and everything that was said at the time. I do recall that I mentioned a few times that apps were taking too long to be dealt with. Due to me being a DL, I don't really have a say over mod team or how they run things. I don't want to say much on this as I don't remember that much and I don't want to say things that are false or misleading.

18 minutes ago, Amelie said:

If someone crosses the line, immediately reach out to the mod team or higher ups.

Some people are afraid of higher ups, never really understood why

[Coomi 32 / 996]

2 minutes ago, Pyros said:

Some people are afraid of higher ups, never really understood why

Probably because you guys are basically on a pedestal that is pretty much unreachable in most players eyes and you don't seem like "one of us"  at least that's what I think

[Rhysin_ 540 / 13,182]

11 minutes ago, Pyros said:

Some people are afraid of higher ups, never really understood why

Pyowos is very spooky  

After reading a bit more and thinking, here is my opinion.
I still think you are asking for transparency where transparency isn't needed. 
Toxicity is still a problem, and allowing something we know caused problems before is not the best idea. While we have moderators it's best to avoid that whole situation. 
Server Admins are able to see almost all admin applications (CS:GO for some reason is the only division that blocks us.) but are only supposed to give input on applications for the server we admin on. Seeing how many server admins there are, this does give accountability if admins are willing to check the other servers applications.
Each server has a staff list (or should have one) so knowing who is an admin or not is just a matter of going to the servers forum page, which you would have to do with admin applications too.
Maybe the servers could pin the staff lists on their discord channels, but thats up to them
If it is possible to make people view and not be able to comment, this could sway my opinion to "maybe leaning to no" but currently it's just no. (of course I don't have any actual say)

I do like community input, but applications do not need community input.

Edited December 23, 2020 by BlazingArson

[DrakoHD 222 / 4,291]

To be honest and this is a point I know someone's already made we don't need transparency where it isn't needed its unnecessary and it gives more people or members weight to harass an applicant if their application were to be denied or otherwise some applications would also show things that or better talked about in private with the correct team. Transparency in this case is pointless if anything harmful the only thing I could see is admin apps being viewable to the public but other than that I do believe its better to keep team apps locked to their own teams. I think that the cons outweigh the pros and for that I cannot agree with this statement.

[TheJitFace 699 / 18,162]

I think everyone here is failing to realize that there is a way to make it where you can view the application but not comment on it. We also have mods for a reason, I remember @Dominic saying mods need more work so here is some work if the view only system isn't added in. We had this before and I don't remember seeing a lot of harassment, maybe I just didn't notice. If @Liloz01 knows how to make a view only system, then lets do it. 

[Amelie 434 / 7,376]

14 minutes ago, DrakoHD said:

To be honest and this is a point I know someone's already made we don't need transparency where it isn't needed its unnecessary and it gives more people or members weight to harass an applicant if their application were to be denied or otherwise some applications would also show things that or better talked about in private with the correct team. Transparency in this case is pointless if anything harmful the only thing I could see is admin apps being viewable to the public but other than that I do believe its better to keep team apps locked to their own teams. I think that the cons outweigh the pros and for that I cannot agree with this statement.

This point has not been made before because this is the first time. Please explain why it would be harmful.

 

 

Edit: I felt the need to go further on this statement. Harassment will always be a part of your life on the internet. This is an honest fact we all know. Putting yourself into a position (even as low as admin), sets you right on a target. Why? Because you are more popular. You are more well known. This is the cost. However, it does not have to be tolerated. GFL has rules against toxicity, and this should fall under it. 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Amelie
Further

[Pyros 1,796 / 30,750]

1 minute ago, Amelie said:

This point has not been made before because this is the first time. Please explain why it would be harmful.

X player is applying for Y position. X player is not really liked by some people. X player is denied for Y position due to Z reasons. People that dislike X player start bullying said player. X player stops playing because he is being harassed.

[Liloz01 1,256 / 19,845]

19 minutes ago, TheJitFace said:

I think everyone here is failing to realize that there is a way to make it where you can view the application but not comment on it.

Let me know how. I don't. There are no special topic author reply permissions baked into IPS, this would have to be something custom which I cannot create. Others have aleady commented for me that this discussion has been had many times, and that there is currently no way to do this. I'm open to the idea of allowing applications to simply be viewable by all while only allowing responses from some; but there is currently no way I know of to do this.

 

19 minutes ago, TheJitFace said:

We had this before

"Before" we had a system exactly as it is now. They became viewable/responsible(? what a stupid word) by regular users for some time due to limitations of IPS. We have actually reverted to the old "correct" system   

 

19 minutes ago, TheJitFace said:

@Dominic saying mods need more work so here is some work

Dominic is one Moderator. I'm sure there's people on the other side who do not want more work. Lol.

[jarm323 170 / 6,621]

I agree with Pyros, GMod apps were never public. (at least since I've been around) That isn't needed. People don't need to know what the staff members think or reply to someone's application. I don't think this will be a good thing if implemented. I've seen a lot of shit happen, even staff members disclosing that info (which they shouldn't) and trashing on applicants. (Not right now, but a long while ago.) So, it's gonna be a no from me. The application and the responses shouldn't be something anyone should be able to check and read. 

[DrakoHD 222 / 4,291]

1 minute ago, Amelie said:

This point has not been made before because this is the first time. Please explain why it would be harmful.

 

 

Just now, Pyros said:

X player is applying for Y position. X player is not really liked by some people. X player is denied for Y position due to Z reasons. People that dislike X player start bullying said player. X player stops playing because he is being harassed.

thank you pyros explains it better than I could ever

[Amelie 434 / 7,376]

1 minute ago, jarm323 said:

I agree with Pyros, GMod apps were never public. (at least since I've been around) That isn't needed. People don't need to know what the staff members think or reply to someone's application. I don't think this will be a good thing if implemented. I've seen a lot of shit happen, even staff members disclosing that info (which they shouldn't) and trashing on applicants. (Not right now, but a long while ago.) So, it's gonna be a no from me. The application and the responses shouldn't be something anyone should be able to check and read. 

-“People don’t need to know what staff members think.” Yes, we do. 

-“If it’a implemented”. It was already a thing before.

[Rhysin_ 540 / 13,182]

Just now, Amelie said:

“People don’t need to know what staff members think.” Yes, we do. 

 

Why do you? It's only relevant to the applicant and the team

[JGuary55 707 / 14,712]

1 minute ago, BlazingArson said:

Why do you? It's only relevant to the applicant and the team

I mean you are putting someone to a admin position, dont you think your player base should know who is/isnt getting accepted as admin? 

[Amelie 434 / 7,376]

2 minutes ago, DrakoHD said:

 

 

thank you pyros explains it better than I could ever

If they didn’t like X player to begin with, they would find other ways to bully them. You are not saving this player from leaving, you are simply saving them from being bullied about that one thing. The issue doesn’t lie in “how can we decrease toxicity” because the answer is already clear. You punish these people. 
 

Say X joins GFL. Y and Z decide they really don’t like this person. They make an application, and harassment ensues. If the mods assist, and the appropriate people are dealt with, X will not wish to leave. 
 

Also, this exact scenario has happened before. And X did not leave. X actually became a higher up. So....I suppose your scenario is also possible.