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willywilson

Freedom of Speech and Racism

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Posted  Edited by willywilson

After a 30 minute debate in the discord, I decided it would be a good idea to take this to the forums, so that I can lay out my thoughts on why I believe we should allow the use of the n word on the server.

 

One of the main rules of gfl is "no racism" and specifically this is reinforced in the zombie escape server as "In ZE, any form of racism will get you muted. So think about what you're going to say first." Yet I have heard countless people give actual racist rants, sexist rants, etc. all without being muted or gagged, and I'll be honest, unfortunately I've done that too during my time on gfl, but the fact is, often times legitimate racism goes unpunished within the server even when admins are online, in fact I'd say 9/10 tens, a legitimately racist remark will fly under everyone's radar. 

 

How does the n word fit into all of this? Whenever I hear the n word on the server, whether in chat or over voice, I always see someone get gagged or muted, without fail. I have never in my time playing here seen the word go by undetected and unpunished, yet the word itself carries no inherent meaning positive or negative. In fact, in today's climate I'd argue it has more of a positive connotation with many in the black community referring to themselves as the n word, with songs like 2pac's I'd rather be ya N-word, and young people of many different backgrounds, Puerto rican, latino, etc. often referring to themselves and their friends as the n word, along with many asians even having their own spin on the word, calling themselves and their friends chig_a, even famous white comedians using it for the fun of the word. I feel like the no racism rule at this point is more of a rule banning the use of the n word, rather than an actual rule against racism. If you're going to have a rule barring racism, either bar all racism, including the n word and racist comments or let us say the n word. At the end of the day it's just a word, and while yes, context matters, I believe that it would make sense to let people say the word as it's not inherently racist. 

 

While the point was brought up in the discord, if the word gets unbanned it will probably get spammed, but I'd argue this isn't the case. While yes, for the first week to month of the word being unbanned it may lead to some people saying for the fun of it, because it's been banned for so long, I feel like this would soon die out. Other servers that have freedom of speech, a fundamental right in most democracies, and I hardly see the n word used. It makes no sense to have a rule against racism, and let people be racist, but not say the n word.

 

tldr; racist comments go unpunished, but we can't say the n word

 

Also: here's an example of some comedians talking about the n word (around the 15:30 mark) and I'm posting this to show that white comedians use it, and it's really no big deal. I'd also post some rap songs like 2pac's rather be your n word, but that's easily accessible. 

 

Edited by willywilson

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I’m admin on the 1v1 and I let the n word with a slide not a big deal until they just saying it over and over and over again with no other word then I’ll tell them to stop but if they say it with the r at the end I automatically mute/gag them 


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I feel like this rule is so hypocritical because so many regulars and admins use slurs in discord and expect to be a different person when they enter the server, when in reality it should be the same. If you are so concerned that mic spammers will ruin the server, then punish those who spam. People should be able to say whatever they want to on the server with the exception of spamming to be obnoxious.

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17 minutes ago, JGuary551 said:

I’m admin on the 1v1 and I let the n word with a slide not a big deal until they just saying it over and over and over again with no other word then I’ll tell them to stop but if they say it with the r at the end I automatically mute/gag them 

 

That's exactly I've been already told them

 

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I don't punish for it unless they use it in a racist way, I think everyone should do it that way but they may have personal preferences. 


“I was so good at being a kid, and so terrible at being whatever I was now.”
― John Green, Turtles All the Way Down

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1 hour ago, WarpedCakez said:

I feel like this rule is so hypocritical because so many regulars and admins use slurs in discord and expect to be a different person when they enter the server, when in reality it should be the same. If you are so concerned that mic spammers will ruin the server, then punish those who spam. People should be able to say whatever they want to on the server with the exception of spamming to be obnoxious.

The worst part is when admins frequently say the n word soon before and during their application process, and then mute people for the same thing after they are accepted ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

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4 minutes ago, Saint-Tab said:

We have people of colors that play on the server. Just for that I approve the mutes, gags, bans, and kicks for people who say the n-word and general racist stuff. Why be mean just for the sake of being mean?

 

 

thas rite.jpg

i dont wanna speak for everyone else but i dont feel like people are actually saying it with the intent of being racist, they are just using it as part of their everyday language/a way to curse or insult others. That doesn't make it okay, but i feel like the biggest issue with the rule is the hypocrisy around it. Why can I say ching chong or spic as well? I guess the only "viable" solution would be to ban all racist speech or allow it all.

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2 hours ago, willywilson said:

After a 30 minute debate in the discord, I decided it would be a good idea to take this to the forums, so that I can lay out my thoughts on why I believe we should allow the use of the n word on the server.

 

One of the main rules of gfl is "no racism" and specifically this is reinforced in the zombie escape server as "In ZE, any form of racism will get you muted. So think about what you're going to say first." Yet I have heard countless people give actual racist rants, sexist rants, etc. all without being muted or gagged, and I'll be honest, unfortunately I've done that too during my time on gfl, but the fact is, often times legitimate racism goes unpunished within the server even when admins are online, in fact I'd say 9/10 tens, a legitimately racist remark will fly under everyone's radar. 

 

How does the n word fit into all of this? Whenever I hear the n word on the server, whether in chat or over voice, I always see someone get gagged or muted, without fail. I have never in my time playing here seen the word go by undetected and unpunished, yet the word itself carries no inherent meaning positive or negative. In fact, in today's climate I'd argue it has more of a positive connotation with many in the black community referring to themselves as the n word, with songs like 2pac's I'd rather be ya N-word, and young people of many different backgrounds, Puerto rican, latino, etc. often referring to themselves and their friends as the n word, along with many asians even having their own spin on the word, calling themselves and their friends chig_a, even famous white comedians using it for the fun of the word. I feel like the no racism rule at this point is more of a rule banning the use of the n word, rather than an actual rule against racism. If you're going to have a rule barring racism, either bar all racism, including the n word and racist comments or let us say the n word. At the end of the day it's just a word, and while yes, context matters, I believe that it would make sense to let people say the word as it's not inherently racist. 

 

While the point was brought up in the discord, if the word gets unbanned it will probably get spammed, but I'd argue this isn't the case. While yes, for the first week to month of the word being unbanned it may lead to some people saying for the fun of it, because it's been banned for so long, I feel like this would soon die out. Other servers that have freedom of speech, a fundamental right in most democracies, and I hardly see the n word used. It makes no sense to have a rule against racism, and let people be racist, but not say the n word.

 

tldr; racist comments go unpunished, but we can't say the n word

 

Also: here's an example of some comedians talking about the n word (around the 15:30 mark) and I'm posting this to show that white comedians use it, and it's really no big deal. I'd also post some rap songs like 2pac's rather be your n word, but that's easily accessible. 

 

also i made this exact post like months ago and nothing ever happened, might as well just lock the thread owo

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Posted  Edited by TheSadBandit

If you really think it has no meaning I dare you to walk up to a group of black people and say it. I bet they'll all laugh right? No they wouldn't, so that's the reason we ban the word, because we don't want to start drama within our same servers.

Edited by TheSadBandit

Former Gmod Prop Hunt Admin

Former Media Team Team Leader

Former Media Team GFX Member

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44 minutes ago, Flops said:

i dont wanna speak for everyone else but i dont feel like people are actually saying it with the intent of being racist, they are just using it as part of their everyday language/a way to curse or insult others. That doesn't make it okay, but i feel like the biggest issue with the rule is the hypocrisy around it. Why can I say ching chong or spic as well? I guess the only "viable" solution would be to ban all racist speech or allow it all.

 

Hmm. I think spic is a bit of a niche insult and for a while I didn't even know which race it was actually insulting. So that's probably why it's not so punished, but it should be treated equally like the N word. Also, people saying ching chong aren't being very offensive since that's such an absurd stereotype that it's almost impossible to take seriously. 

 

Like. If someone started impersonating Mexicans by saying shit like "I like burritos and tacos every day!!!" And stupid stuff like that, I wouldn't be in the slightest offended. It's too absurd for it to have the same weight as someone calling me a wetback. It's annoying but it's barely worth the effort of gagging/muting since no one will take it seriously. But that's different with something like the N-word. It's a word that is still used in real life to insult black people and it has a connotation to it that is quite severe. Stereotypes aren't as insulting as slurs because one is stupid and the other is meant to be an attack. There's the whole "but we give words power" argument but that's just incredibly stupid. Like yes. We give words power but that doesn't change the fact that it's a good identifier of who is being racist and who isn't. It's a lot easier to just not say the word. And anyone who really wants to say it is probably being edgy or actually racist. In which case, why allow them to say It? 

 

So, I don't see why we should allow the hard R version. The no r version is acceptable since it is a part of culture now and almost no one is offended by it. If one day the hard R falls into pop culture as a friendly term or into the "not very offensive" category then so be it. But that's not something a mostly white community should decide. Plus, why do we need the hard R? It does more harm than good. I guarantee you the players who would be uninterested in our servers due to the change are the ones we want over the ones who would be willing to join due to it. We have enough edge lords and casual racists as is. Why do we want more? 

 

But yeah, it's a lot simpler to just not allow it. And I guarantee you it's white kids who want it much more than black people in our community. So if anything, we should be more strict than less about it. Hypocrisy be damned. 


"Be good people"

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Posted  Edited by Nah - Edit Reason: Grammar Error and I'm tired as crap. Plz excuse me

 

2 hours ago, reduct said:

You can say it. No one is stopping you, technically.

 

But you just gotta live with the consequences of saying it.

 

 

+1

 

I believe people can say whatever they want to however as long as the recipient or audience doesn't feel offended or insulted. I feel private setting it's okay to say N-word or any other word you want to use to the person; however, there is a borderline if you as recipient feels the word is attacking you, then it must be stopped.

 

4 hours ago, willywilson said:

.... If you're going to have a rule barring racism, either bar all racism including the n word and racist comments or let us say the n word.

 

2

 

 

I believe allowing N word in a public forum, where the audience of all the age can access this community, can cause a public backlash and in worst case scenario lawsuit on the community by promoting racial discrimination. I found questionable to your examples of Louis CK and 2Pac how they got N-word pass. The Louis CK (I believe it's a bit controversial), has the general audience of who can accept adult humor. For the example of 2Pac is that his audience was mainly towards African American and there is a weird rule that it is okay to say within African American people but it's colloquially or derogatorily, in context or out (Source , and reply from @TheSadBandit) between different race talking to them. I'm going to ask a question to you if you can find any Eminem track that includes N-word in a lyric and get by with it.

 

We can open the n-word pass rule by making it 19+ community and remove all underages in this community but that seems to be unfeasible to this community.

 

1 hour ago, Flops said:

...  Why can I say ching chong or spic as well ....

2

In general, the public believes the Asian racial term or Latin American racial term isn't as strong as African American racial term. I do get offended but take it as a joke or friendly term if someone calls me an Asian racial term. Do you see public media boast about Asian racial term or Latin American racial term being bad much as N-word does? No.. I think it's just had to do public view.

Edited by Nah
Grammar Error and I'm tired as crap. Plz excuse me

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I say we  either we put in all sever rules the list of "racism" words we cant say so ban all of them (mute/gag) or we dont mute/gag for it we shouldnt do an in between some servers allow it but some servers dont some "racism" words we allow some dont we need to come to a conclusion for it 


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To be fair, its not just other stereotypical words or phrases such as ching chong or spic that go without punishment. For example, one player for some reason had a bind saying !he 卍 Death to all jews 卍. Although I have seen a couple of admins tell this player in particular to change the bind, many admins have also seen it and couldn't have cared less. This is just one example and on my many hours on the server, I have seen much more racism past just single words or phrases go unpunished. It seems to me that for most admins the N-Word is the only form of racism that is to be punished. Of course the must be some personal judgement in each case, but something along the lines of  !he 卍 Death to all jews 卍 is obvious proof of my statement.

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