Operators -> Server Admins

[Joshy 4,315 / 43,131]

Suggestion: Consolidate by purging the Operator title/rank and call them Server Admins; use a tier system to differentiate between effective operators and Server Admins.  Keep it simple.

 

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I've noticed an effort to consolidate some positions such as Event Team into Media Team, which was one step further than my earlier recommendation (I'm not against it).

 

Why have Operator and Server Admin when the forum permissions are the same?  I've seen on other communities using tiers for their Server Admin team, and so I think it would be in good alignment with previous decisions and goals to use Server Admin instead.  Should it matter what they are called in game?  I don't think so.  Forum ranks haven't always matched the rank in game (we've seen this with Staff positions), but IF a Server Manager really wanted to be extra consistent, then I would imagine it would not be too difficult to use Level 1, 2, and 3 Server Admins in their games ie. Level 1 could be the equivalent Operator until a regular Server Admin at Level 2; Level 3 for Senior or Head Admin, etc.

 

I personally know - so far as in game goes - that it would be very easy on the Counter-Strike games.  I've seen it elsewhere and it was my intended strategy for Zombie Mod to skirt the operator permissions on the forums so that the entire team could use the Server Admin forums; we're now half way there such that Operators having matching permissions, which I think is great although we can do better.  Given this previous sentence and how I was able to implement it early on: Server Managers could implement this suggestion at their own discretion should it not be approved   Lastly: My suggestions are always open to compromise.  If you kind of like parts of it and not others, then implement the parts you like and hold off on the other parts.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Joshy

[ScootypTooty 371 / 8,393]

Would the tag be Lvl1. Server Admin? How would players in game be able to tell which admin is what level? Why not just add an Operator section to forums and nullify their access? Sa dont really have much on forums so idk how this can be done lol (referring to my own point)

Edited February 21, 2018 by Moose

[__ 727 / 8,828]

Yes hello? This is Plaguefest calling, they want their idea back.

[Jinn 250 / 6,729]

This, for me, is a -1

Many servers we have use the trial admin rank. The same for operators. If we begin to use a rank system, as @Moose said, would confuse newer players as to who is more powerful. (Rank-wise) The players would have to actively seek out an admin's rank if it mean't  something to the situation. This would require many changes and overall just complicate things more than they need to be. Just allow Managers to decide what they want to do with their server.  Some like Operators and others like Trial Admins

[Winter 1,704 / 25,731]

While I see the reasoning, I think distinguishing Operator from Server Admin should be a keeper. Maybe even create a Senior Admin rank in the future.

 

Having EVERY staff as server admin will definitely be confusing when it comes to labelling them with lvl 1,2,3

 

I have Deathrun set up this way:

Highest to lowest:

1. superadmin - manager, DL, directors.

2. headadmin - just in storage for now, may come into play once i have enough staff to warrant multiple senior admins.

3. senioradmin - Self-explanatory, a step up from admin. Few extra permissions etc.

4. admin+ - only used for admin of the week, has a little more access for fun benefits for especially active admins.

5. admin - standard full admin access, self-explanatory.

6. trialadmin - in storage for now. rank has been dissolved temporarily (see operator)

7. operator - newly accepted applicants. This is the starting point and i feel this also reduces the pressure that i’ve heard some applicants mention about trial admin, this implies a lower level of involvement and commitment for people who don’t quite want admin-level involvement in the server.

 

Given that I just updated the way this works like two days ago i’m not feeling particularly inclined to make more changes either lol but if changes come then changes come.

 

-1 to the level admin system but i see your reasoning.

[Joshy 4,315 / 43,131]

Most importantly: My suggestion pertains to the forums although the extension and details layout a plan for Server Managers who prefer consistency, or for Server Managers who would like to implement this on their own server.  Emphasis is used to make this clear.

 

What difference would it make if they were called Server Admins on the forums and they were effectively Operators?  We do the same thing for trial and we were doing it long before the badges- it is a working system.  It worked here in the parts that used this idea in the past, it works in other communities, and so I'm going to take a shot in the dark here and say that "it might" work here  It's not just in other communities as someone has pointed out earlier, but I also see this in various professional organizations (please don't limit yourself to retail and fast-food thinking).

 

Not a lot of people were crying the same thing when it happened to Trial Managers, Event Coordinators, and Trial Admins.  Our ranking system has clearly been a problem as they constantly update it and fiddle with the names, and we see a direction or aim although we are only taking half measures to try and fulfill them.

 

I have never seen a server where it mattered who was "more powerful."  Leadership is leadership, and most Server Managers ask for their teams to not intervene between each other should a "lower tier" person be facilitating an event (unless it is blatant abuse).  The previous sentence also shows how this idea is a pathway to shorten the gap between positions and to improve the cycle of leadership...  definitely a big problem here, and so that's another benefit.  The best I could think of - off the top of my head - where this  may be a "problem" is maybe a karma reset on TTT although this is a trivial matter and I've noticed a lot of the full-blown Server Admins weren't on top of it anyways; it  has never been a problem where Operators, Trial Admins, or Server Admins simply say "I do not have that command," and these commands vary across games and modes anyways.  Our former CS:S ZE server and I do not know the details for our current CS:GO version had Server Admins with varying commands too, but that didn't require them to make ten different positions to fit each set of commands.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Joshy

[Cassie 1,224 / 22,509]

Adding the operator rank on the forums let's ops see admin apps and other forumsbut they are still distinguished between admins.

If anything, I think both operator and server admin roles on the forums should be combined into "staff" or "server staff" with the current admin color.  

[Winter 1,704 / 25,731]

2 minutes ago, Duc2000 said:

If anything, I think both operator and server admin roles on the forums should be combined into "staff" or "server staff" with the current admin color. 

I like this idea. However something about the differences from server to forum rank is leaving my inner OCD screaming. I’d rather have server ranks match forums, but badges could be used I suppose. Server Staff makes for a more general rank idea, although maybe it could be possible to sync the admin and operator forum perms to the same thing or group then together. Something just doesn’t seem right to me about being one thing on the server and a different thing on the forums.

 

Again this could just be my inner organization freak speaking but still.

[-_Fx_- 666 / 11,186]

Operator should be removed cause its a stupid rank

[Winter 1,704 / 25,731]

2 minutes ago, -_Fx_- said:

Operator should be removed cause its a stupid rank

uhh... more clarification/objectivity? i quite like it but that’s just me.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Winter

[-_Fx_- 666 / 11,186]

1 minute ago, Winter said:

uhh... more clarification? i quite like it but that’s just me.

Its basically just a trial admin with a different name and less ability. Its pointless just make them a trial admin.

[Winter 1,704 / 25,731]

9 minutes ago, -_Fx_- said:

Its basically just a trial admin with a different name and less ability. Its pointless just make them a trial admin.

I believe Operator implies less commitment. While yes you can still be promoted to full admin, i’ve arranged Operator to make sure people aren’t pressured. I’ve had at least two people hesitate because they believe the trial admin rank implies that you must become a large asset in the server, even though that’s not always the case.

 

It’s just the tone behind the words that changes it for me. Pretty much sums up why I replaced trial completely.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Winter

[rapperdan 2,323 / 0]

30 minutes ago, -_Fx_- said:

Its basically just a trial admin with a different name and less ability. Its pointless just make them a trial admin.

some times it's easier on everyone including the person who is going to be an operator just to get the concept on a starting point on how to deal with things, as an operator you do not need to worry about making a possible false ban and screwing up, but you slowly work yourself into a more dominant role like admin which has ban powers and not gonna lie but when I was an admin there was a few times where an operator could deal with comms while I was working on getting decent proof of something and making judgement where I needed to and could not be over here opening up my console while I had to pay attention to a more important matter.

 

not to bring up the fact that it is the easiest way with the least damaging effects on everyone to see if someone is ready for something, sometimes giving someone who is a random power of just simply blocking comms and watching how they handle it can lead to some people you never would of considered before.

Edited February 21, 2018 by i have had it up to here

[Rick 1,636 / 17,369]

or we could just combine them all and call it Division Staff with badges to tell people what they are (senior admin, operator, admin)

[Zebra 908 / 11,890]

Or we could keep it how it is now, and not have to worry about changing anything.

[John Jeez Man 556 / 12,187]

3 minutes ago, Zebra said:

Or we could keep it how it is now, and not have to worry about changing anything.

Argeed 

[rapperdan 2,323 / 0]

3 hours ago, RickGrimesTM said:

or we could just combine them all and call it Division Staff with badges to tell people what they are (senior admin, operator, admin)

your rank is my rank and the dude down the street cooking pizza is also me cooking pizza.

 

tfw @RickGrimesTM added (senior admin, operator, admin) later on anyways I am not against that but even then it just seems like it could cause greif if people need someone to say do something an operator can not do then are confused and the such when they get on the server idk I would prefer to have a clear indication between operator and admin but adding more to the ranks like senior admin and other things seems unneeded.

 

2 hours ago, Winter said:

3 hours ago, i have had it up to here said:

your rank is my rank and the dude down the street cooking pizza is also me cooking pizza.

what

it was a joke on merging all the ranks together sorry if I confused it but ya there was a reason why I used the laughing reaction I doubt @RickGrimesTM ment what he said there sorry it was somewhat political in terms of the form of satire one of my many mistakes over the years is people not understanding when I am joking about something so that is my bad I suppose the joke was somewhat political in the sense that everyone has the same job and the concept of merging all ranks together made me think of the communism and how in it's purest of form it always ends up with one person as a dictator also @Joshy I figured I would let you know that the tier system is infact in place on the csgo ze server but that will not work on every server anyways sorry for the confusion @Winter one of my biggest mistakes is expecting to much and on top of that trying to trying to help people and teach people at the same time because one thing I noticed over time is how we through people into a manager role and never teach people it's an issue @Joshy has brought up many times that I agree with him on and it's one of our biggest issues we don't teach people to things they must know when some form of power is shifted a lot of the times I'm over here trying to think what the layout of things are based off being in the rooms with people and how the perms work and the gui's etc etc anyways sorry if I am a dick sometimes I am just not an emotional thinker which leads me to offending countless people.

 

TL:DR it was political satire and me saying sorry for expecting to much out of a rather younger crowd.

Edited February 21, 2018 by i have had it up to here

[Winter 1,704 / 25,731]

1 hour ago, i have had it up to here said:

your rank is my rank and the dude down the street cooking pizza is also me cooking pizza.

what

[Astro 451 / 10,476]

2 minutes ago, Winter said:

what

we don’t ask questions here, we only get answers.

 

 

i say keep it how it is

[Eli 708 / 11,586]

Personally I never liked operator but I’m starting to use it becuase I see way less harm in starting someone as operator. I don’t wanna dumb down trial admin to the point of it being the same perms as an operator but I also don’t want certain people as trial admin. So it’s really only being used for me on a case specific basis