Help keep GFL on track!

[Guest]

In other news, power hungry individual tries to make themselves look better by stepping down, and is now trying to make everyone else look bad to get their old position back.

 

 

mind explaining this one @Nick ?

[Nick 1,249 / 17,857]

Oh, no! @motorsteak, how did you get this publicly sent in #general banter? I see no reason to comment on that, lol. Ridiculous.

 

As for you @TheSadBandit, I look through many bans on SB. The majority of them are well-documented and follow protocol (a lot of TTT-bans too if I have to be explicit about that...). I have brought bans, that I personally deem unreasonable, only up for discussion. I've only indicated that I want action on bans that directly go against protocols and/or are improperly documented. Feel free to look through all bans I've shared. I assure you I can easily cross-reference them and objectively tell you why I brought them up.

 

This is very off-topic and will be my last remark on the matter. If you want to personally "attack" me, then please do so personally over PMs or similar. 

 

@MilkMan, I meant I can't see your attached example. I don't have permission to do so.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Nick

[Guest]

nick that "discord banter" is kind of hard to believe, especially after you make posts like this one

where you went after people you have previously had disagreements with in the past and demanded they explain themselves or do things your way.

[Pyros 1,796 / 30,750]

Let's keep this post on topic. Don't be a hypocrite and complain about a witch hunt if you do the same.

[Guest]

Just now, Pyros said:

Let's keep this post on topic. Don't be a hypocrite and complain about a witch hunt if you do the same.

that's a fair assessment pyros. i'll try and keep in on the rails

[im not inactive you are 888 / 16,340]

24 minutes ago, Nick said:

Oh, no! @motorsteak, how did you get this publicly sent in #general banter? I see no reason to comment on that, lol. Ridiculous.

 

As for you @TheSadBandit, I look through many bans on SB. The majority of them are well-documented and follow protocol (a lot of TTT-bans too if I have to be explicit about that...). I have brought bans, that I personally deem unreasonable, only up for discussion. I've only indicated that I want action on bans that directly go against protocols and/or are improperly documented. Feel free to look through all bans I've shared. I assure you I can easily cross-reference them and objectively tell you why I brought them up.

 

This is very off-topic and will be my last remark on the matter. If you want to personally "attack" me, then please do so personally over PMs or similar. 

 

@MilkMan, I meant I can't see your attached example. I don't have permission to do so.

I'm not attacking you, just pointing out that you're attacking the TTT team and showing example(s) of so. I personally don't have a problem with you, except the fact that every post I've seen of yours is against TTT in some way. I looked at the bans again in the "Odd Bans", and can see what you mean by you deeming them unreasonable, but some admins don't use the term "super mass", or "double mass", they just use the term "mass", which I guess there should be a specific term like the RDM term for people who kill more than a specific number of people, so when people look through SB they don't get confused. What I don't agree with though is bringing them up to the public, when you can easily send them to the Server Manager, and he will privately tell the admins about the issue, and work with us to fix it. Since I've been admin, he has fixed many issues that I will not discuss publicly, but if you find bans unreasonable, just contact the Server Managers, as they will most likely deal with it, and it won't be as negative of a response as publicly announcing and tagging which Admins banned someone "incorrectly" or their ban is "unreasonable". As for off-topic, I was talking about transparency and wanted to know why you wanted GFL to be so transparent with everything, which is on the topic you posted about.

[Joshy 4,370 / 45,021]

This is Kruger-Dunning at its finest.  "Of course" the two or three times people with a proven background are the idiots.  It's one thing if some rocket scientist walks into a KFC and calls the cashier an idiot for no good reason...  probably just another snob-asshole...  not even worth a second thought as it's not uncommon for these people to be less humble than you would like; it's another thing when the "whole world" is full of assholes and the KFC cashier is doing everything right and better.  No doubt there is something worth looking into before a third or fourth person falls for it.  GFL can only get so lucky; companies offer so much money for this way of thinking and you guys throw it all away when these groups offer it for free.

 

Maybe if everyone is "attacking" the KFC team and it's not just one person...  Hmmmmm.

[Worgee 812 / 13,264]

!purge Off-topic comments  

I personally like trello and transparency. Too many weird and ignorant actions has been taken within the past 12 months and being a member of This community gives you a voice No matter what trusted think. (Or former stepped Down staff). Everyone seems to think of what GFL were rather Than what GFL Can become. And we could be a great community, expandin into new games with the Best server and staff. But we Can't do That when we have divisions fighting eachother for reason they don't even know due to lack of transparency. It's a work in progress and shout out to @Xy_ for being so a feminine guy and open to listen to suggestion from everyone. Also to @Darkling for always being Nice and open to newcomers of GFL and the servers. You do a great job so keep it up! We believe in you

 

 

ps: Nick is not trying to offend anyone, he is just trying to work the issue of perm-bans That are weird. He is NOT attacking TTT nor demanding anything to be done. Only showcasing the issues/mistakes That Sometimes are made in SB and cause us to lose some players That shouldn't have been lost.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Worgee

[Guest]

Just now, Worgee said:

!purge Off-topic comments  

I personally like trello and transparency. Too many weird and ignorant actions has been taken within the past 12 months and being a member of This community gives you a voice No matter what trusted think. (Or former stepped Down staff). Everyone seems to think of what GFL were rather Than what GFL Can become. And we could be a great community, expandin into new games with the Best server and staff. But we Can't do That when we have divisions fighting eachother for reason they don't even know due to lack of transparency. It's a work in progress and shout out to @Xy_ for being so a feminine guy and open to listen to suggestion from everyone. Also to @Darkling for always being Nice and open to newcomers of GFL and the servers. You do a great job so keep it up! We believe in you

 

[Harakoni 729 / 12,359]

I'm going to join in and point something out here.
GFL does have an issue with transparency. Infact, the issue has persisted for a long time from when I first became an admin, prompting more interest as to how the community works together.
In my brief and casual look, i came across a brick wall of what was deemed "appropriate" for Server Admins to know of higher up plans and movements.
This, in my opinion. Is unacceptable.
The mere notion that the communities members and lower staff don't have a say in community matters is really backwards. A community exists, evolves and works together, this divide has created friction between players/members and higher ups.
Hell, i didn't even know about the new (not actually even new) council vote until about 3 weeks ago.
 

Due to this, i support the notion of transparency at the Division leader level. This also leads me on to the "chain reaction point"  as said by @TheSadBandit.

1 hour ago, TheSadBandit said:

 After DLs you're going to want to track Server Managers, and then Senior Admins, and then regular Admins, and etc. I don't see these trackers as something useful, as I don't see 100% transparency useful either.

Server admins primary goal is to police and enforce rules on the server, you can't get more transparent than that. The only applicable transparency that could be somewhat applied would be setting out exactly what they did every time they log on, which would be tedious and counterproductive - As they would put less effort into the administrating side, but more transcribing exactly what they did. 
This wouldn't even be necessary, as logs of what happens during games/rounds exist. The only need for transcription would be proof of applying a ban/ perma-gag(voice)/ perma-mute(text chat). Which is already required.
Transparency on server managers I do however support, as the server manager i work under is often open and willing to tell the staff team and players, of possible additions to the server. This has really helped bind the players and staff together on the server, and using this model, i believe it can be applied to GFL higher ups aswell.

[Pyros 1,796 / 30,750]

We have plans on improving transparecy. Trello was one of them that wasn't that announced. 

 

Anyway, the point of this post was to show a way that anyone could be a bit more informed of what is happening and maybe contact a "Higher Up" if they see something in Trello that they know they can help with. Prime example being @Leks on TS3 permission redux.

Cheers!

[Joshy 4,370 / 45,021]

46 minutes ago, Pyros said:

We have plans on improving transparecy. Trello was one of them that wasn't that announced. 

 

Transparency and communication has been something I've always heard people talk about (which you are not denying); in fact: I convinced our team to purge the former Community Advisor category, and we began starting threads on Server Admins or even on the greater forums.  Threads would be pushed out into public as soon as possible (within hours or a day or two), and there was little to nothing the Server Admin team didn't know that we knew.

 

Trello was definitely announced.  Communication was among the prominent goals with the announcement of Snoopy's promotions.  Trello and bi-monthly announcements were some of the projects described in the threads, but the bi-monthly announcements would only happen once before it was time to end them each time (about two months after the first).  There was also "community meetings."  I recall each meeting being extremely awful and unproductive...  mostly people pissing on each other to see who could produce the longest stream.

 

Edited June 1, 2018 by Joshy

[Pyros 1,796 / 30,750]

7 minutes ago, Joshy said:

Trello was one of them that wasn't that announced. 

 

7 minutes ago, Joshy said:

Trello was definitely announced.

I know Trello was announced, but there could have been a better way to make sure it kept being relevant and known to the community as a whole.

 

And most projects of transparecy needs to wait for an update on the forms system.

[Joshy 4,370 / 45,021]

[Darkling 2,041 / 23,470]

I want to comment on everyone's opinion here, as there are some very valid points being made. However I'll just make a nice little statement attempting to address the issues/points made.

 

Trello is something we've been using for a little while now which was announced before by Snoopy whilst he was Director. It has always been a more "on again, off again" relationship with our staff because of how disjointed it feels to use to some of us (including myself). Which is why if you look at the Director Trello you'll notice that I am working on finding a better way to show Trello boards here. 

 

One of the main reasons to use Trello is obviously transparency but it also allows anyone who wants to help out, see what we are doing and be able to go "I know a lot about that, can I work on that with you?".

 

A few little mentions:

@Joshy- Obviously there will always be people who may not like how you comment on issues/projects but I have to say that your opinion is always something I look out for. It's usually a well constructed argument with reasons why something is good/bad along with what we should do instead. I would be incredibly upset if we stopped seeing that!

 

@Nick- Yes some people will dislike you because they feel that you are targeting them/their server, but I do see the good intentions behind it. Which is why I wanted you to report them through staff to get to the root of the issue. Again you have big opinions which is great. Even if those opinions are something people disagree with, it still allows conversations like this where people can discuss those points.

 

I will say you won't find us adding literally everything to Trello as that would be highly inefficient, such as servers that are in the beginnings of being made etc. 

 

But there are some points in this which I'm drawing the attention to the council team to work on. 

[rapperdan 2,323 / 0]

I said this to more then a few people before but I'll say it here, people are like puddy some can barely hold themselfs together and might asswell be slime and some are so tough you can't even really work with them as a whole but each one has it's use and each one must be worked with in a different way, there is no one way approach for everyone yet we need everyone in order to be great so while @Nick and @Joshy had a rank in the past which made countless people always listen to them and they did not understand much of how hard it is when you don't hold a rank sadly you guys need to work on your approach with some groups and ease your relations with them and take note that a culture change will never be instant but will always be the most powerful and long lasting effect.

 

it's like trying to go up to someone you don't even know on the internet telling them they are doing everything wrong and are trash, do you really think they will even listen to you or will they just tell you to leave them alone aka say gtfo of my store etc etc people are fragile creatures and each and everyone is different and has different pros and cons paired with views on things how you go about things and your approach  means everything, while I do agree with a lot of @Joshy points and the such and think he has some very valid ones I tend to find he goes about things in the wrong way aswell as @Nick his approach is a bad one and without a rank not many people will be not so confrontational as we all know confrontation is met with confrontation a lot of people need to understand that many things they do will only ever go through when you take that approach is if you rule by fear and well people simply do not listen to you in the same way when you hold no rank because you guys depended on the fear that you ruled with and had a very somewhat brute force to everything approach you guys need to learn how to come off as approachable and rule not by fear but with your heart and be willing to help out anyone and there mother with everything they need become the approachable person and you will get your thoughts through it is how I do must of the very same ideals you guys both have but it's a slow process and near 100% success rate one at that, anyways you will keep losing again and again and again it's like watching anakin burn alive 

it's not enjoyable but it's what they have put themselfs in.

[Nick 1,249 / 17,857]

Can someone lock this please? This just keeps going off-topic.

[flyingjoe32 887 / 14,692]

Locking at the request of the OP.